Tami Simon: You’re listening to Insights at the Edge. Today my guest is Sharon Franquemont. Sharon has taught individuals, couples, and organizations how to channel their intuitive powers for better health and communication for more than 25 years. She is among the pioneers who established a graduate program in intuition at John F. Kennedy University. With Sounds True, Sharon has created several audio programs, including You Already Know What to Do and Intuition: Your Electric Self: A Life Path of Illumination, which is a training course on intuition where she teaches a true and luminous path beyond individual realization and into more empowered relationships with time, space, and the larger purpose of existence.
In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Sharon and I spoke about intuitive knowing, the zone of no time, and the ground of being. We also talked about why intuition is being taken so seriously in the field of nursing, and how to work with intuition when you are suffering from an illness. And, finally, Sharon shared with us her most important advice for cultivating what she calls “radical intuition.”
Here’s my conversation with Sharon Franquemont.
Sharon, with Sounds True, you created an audio program called, You Already Know What to Do. That’s a very provocative title. I think a lot of people think, “No, actually, I don’t know what to do, and the reason I want to go talk to an intuitive counselor and I want to learn more about intuition is because I don’t know what to do.” So, my question is, do you think that we are blocking our intuition, and that’s the problem?
Sharon Franquemont: No, I don’t think we block intuition. What I think is that we are very inexperienced with intuition. Most of us in the western culture have never had even Intuition 101 or heard the word throughout school. I don’t think we’re purposely or psychologically blocking what we know. I think we almost never pause and really seek that knowledge within us. When we say we don’t know what to do, what we are saying is that my brain doesn’t know what to do, and my training and my logic don’t know what to do. That’s what I believe.
I believe that we have another layer—another way of knowing. Philosophers, spiritual teachers, and now science itself, are saying that we are more than our brain. When we say, “I don’t know what to do”—let’s dissect that a little bit and explore what we are truly saying. Are we saying that we are at a decision point and we don’t know what to do? Are we saying that I’m going to start my day, but I don’t know where to start? What is the “we” that we’re talking about or the “I” that I’m talking about?
I think that the larger “I” is the bigger total spirit self [which] has a lot more knowledge than we take advantage of, just because of training, not because of ignorance.
TS: So you actually believe that people could be trained to be significantly more intuitive.
SF: Absolutely. When I use the word “train” —I think I better clarify that. We need training so we have a new skill base. Basically, what I kind of hinted at a few minutes ago is that we need training to just stop and go inward and to know that we can ask even the wisdom of our body, our heart, our belly, and our spirit, what is best. So the training we need is more in removing the way we habitually approach decision-making or anything in life, for that matter, and taking the time to settle into more of a contemplative, intuitive self.
TS: I’m curious what the model is that you’re currently working with to explain natural intuition, if you will.
SF: I have many models. The one that I am most excited about—well, there are two. One is based on a French philosopher named Jacques Maritain. He had the idea that we have what he called “connaturality.” It’s a term you can look up on Google. Basically, it means we’re born with an innate knowledge base. We’re born with intuition. He believed that our intuitive field of knowing precedes our logical and inductive way of knowing, or deductive way of knowing. That’s one method that I’m thinking—or one way to frame it.
Another frame that I find really exciting that’s going on right now is all the work in spiritual intelligence. I think intuition is something that is unfolding as we develop spiritually—and I don’t mean by that religiously—but as we develop our higher values and our sensitivity to—I would almost want to call it what the Dalai Lama calls it—our sensitivity to kindness, the basic human quality of kindness and compassion. If we develop that, and there’s a softness that comes to our knowledge, then we’re really tapping into a larger field in which we live.
In the spiritual intelligence work—it’s been developed by a guy named Robert Emmons at the University of California in Davis. He defines it in five ways. One is that we develop the capacity for transcendence. So, we’re not just thinking of ourselves as just body-based, but the body has a large field in which it is interacting, and that field has information. I think our challenge right now is to discern what information is relevant in an extremely large field. Then he states that the next thing about spiritual intelligence is we have a heightened state of consciousness. Again, he’s talking about awareness as part of spiritual intelligence, and that we see everyday activities as sacred. That’s the definition of spiritual intelligence.
When I’m speaking about intuition as part of this process, I’m talking about the capacity to know without logic. I just want to stop for a minute around this idea that everyday activities are sacred—even the possibility of making a decision. For example, I’m working a lot with nurses right now. Nursing has done more research, Tami, on intuition than any other field other than parapsychology. A huge amount of nurses report intuitive experiences. Often they act before they make a decision. It’s that moment that comes out with a wisdom that is achieved faster than—as the author of Blink says—it is like a blink and in that moment there is a sacredness to being alive. There is an awe. It’s not an evaluation process. That’s part of the intuition as it arises in spiritual intelligence.
That leads to the next definition, where you’re actually using your—he’s calling it “spiritual resources” —to solve problems. So, you would turn and learn to rely upon what your heart tells you is the right action. That doesn’t mean you’re always going to follow your heart. I’m not saying that should replace logic. But, you pay attention to that. It becomes part of this large field. Then, he defines the final one as an engagement in virtuous behavior for spiritual intelligence.
So, I’m really interested in those two philosophical developments and the idea of non-consciousness. That’s another idea that’s going around right now—that our non-conscious self is gigantic. This is different than our sub-conscious self.
TS: OK, so I’m going to need a little more understanding of this. When you say non-conscious, but you’re distinguishing it from sub-conscious, what’s non-conscious?
SF: I am relying a lot on the work of Dr. Paul Shealy. He’s from Wayzata, Minnesota, and he’s done a lot of research in the brain. His whole interest is in the brain, and he believes right now that we have a non-conscious self, and that non-conscious self—distinguishing from sub-conscious self—is a huge capacity to be aware of what is going on in our environment. So, for example, he said if all of us could right now look down at our feet and just see that little space that our feet holds. This is what he refers to as the area of the conscious brain. Then if you can imagine 100 football fields in all directions as the non-conscious brain, which is operating and working and evolving and discerning and recording all that’s happening, not just with you, but in this large field—then we’re aware of a self that is much bigger than our physical body or even our idea of our singular soul or spirit, but is part of this living field that we’re in.
So, intuition is—you know, in the old days, they would sometimes call something like the Akashic records or someplace where all knowledge is known, which we could go to. I think we’re looking at something more like the “knowisphere,” which is the sphere that de Chardin, the philosopher, talked about, around the earth where all knowledge is shared. As we become a global community, we need instantaneous interaction and it doesn’t always have to be through our cell phones or our internet. I think there’s an “innernet” where knowledge is bare.
To give you an example, when I’m working with nurses—oh, let me give you an example from soccer and sports. Pele—he’s a really famous soccer player from Brazil—was known for being able to make a crucial kick backwards to one of his teammates that was behind him, without looking back. He was interviewed and they said, “How do you do that?” Pele answered it just so nonchalantly. He said, “It’s easy, I just go up and I look around at the whole field. I’m not looking with my eyes. I go up with my spirit and I look around at the whole field and I know where he is.”
When I’m working with nurses, I talk about lifting your knowledge into the space of seeing your entire field. That is, what’s going on down the hall? Where is the person that you need to help you at this moment? Call them on the inner world. I’m talking radical intuition here, where you really are stepping into another world, Tami, and believing that you are deeply connected with those things you need to know in the moment you need to know them. Your brain is no longer just a storage place. You’re not using your brain for storage. You can give that to your computer. You’re engaging your brain, your spirit, and this field that you’re in, in the discernment of what is necessary in this moment. And why that is so important to each of us is that it brings a life of much greater ease.
TS: You’re saying a lot of interesting things, Sharon. I’m going to unpack a couple of the ideas that I’m curious about. When you were offering this first model that you’ve been engaging with—that intuitive knowing precedes our rational knowing—are you saying that it happens quicker? Is that what you mean by “precedes?”
SF: Well, he believes that intuition is in the ground of being. This idea that intuition is quicker may be part of our always having to think of things in time. In other words, if one thing happens and the next thing happens and another thing happens. I would like to say that what he is talking about is presence—just sheer presence. It doesn’t have to do with even the linear seconds. In the book Blink—if you’ve had a chance to look at that—he does talk about how fast it happens. It’s very hard for us as Westerners to get out of not thinking about progressive time, but thinking about all things happening at once. I could go deeper into that, but maybe you’d prefer to ask another question.
TS: Well, when you say that our intuitive knowing is part of the ground of our being, not even in time—tell me what you mean by that.
SF: The Buddhists have three ideas of time. One is a profane time. That’s the thing we do every day. We’re primarily living through our personalities and what we have to do to get through the day and make the day a joyful experience, not only for ourselves, but for others. That’s profane time. That’s the time we look at the clock and we make appointments and we sort of meter out our lives. Then, another type of time is grand time. This time is mythic time. It’s huge cycles. We might see them as spirals that we go through just as an individual, much less as a community of beings who have lived on the planet. The third kind of time is called no time. That literally is time disappears. I’m referring to that when I say ground of being—and this is kind of a deep, philosophical discussion—I mean that you have access instantaneously to what you need to know.
If we go back to the original meaning, the Latin meaning of “intuit,” which is where the word “intuition” comes from, it means immediate apprehension of everything there is to know. Intuit means apprehension—instantaneous knowledge. You could think about that as part of the ground of being.
TS: It sounds to me like one takeaway that someone could have listening to this description of developing intuition, if you will, or opening to intuition, is if you’re struggling with figuring out what to do, maybe the best thing to do would be to stop and enter this no time space. I’m wondering what you have to say about that.
SF: That’s exactly what I’m saying. Of course, we’re not very experienced at entering no time—I mean all of us, in the westernized world anyway. There are things we can do to help ourselves. I believe that we need to have this time. In our society, one of the ways we have [it] is we zone out. We shouldn’t zone out while we’re driving, but sometimes we do. We zone out while we’re being taught. We zone out while we’re watching TV. Where are we going? What is happening?
While the body might need that, we have not gone to that place for the purpose of being a more alive human being. In the meditative state or even if you’re having the experience—in sports or in teams, we call it being in the zone. It isn’t a process that we go through for step one, step two, step three. It’s like Pele was saying, “I’m in the zone.” Or you might have experienced it in your life if you play music and you move and you are actually more alive. The experience of being alive is a very strong key, Tami, for knowing you are in the intuitive state. It’s calm, but heightened aliveness. I don’t know if that—
TS: Yes, that’s good. That’s helpful. You mentioned something else that I thought was quite intriguing. In the healthcare field, intuition has been studied and taken seriously, more so than in any other field except parapsychology. I’m wondering why that is so.
SF: Well, it’s not healthcare. I want to be very specific. It’s nursing. They have done so many studies, Tami, on the role of intuition in nursing. Why I believe that is so, is that nursing—when you’re caretaking another human being who is in a position—sometimes a life and death position or frequently facing a major crisis—what happens is—and I believe this is really central to intuition—is this ground of being that I’m talking about is more available. Nurses are responsible, usually, for the body and are really in contact more than the physician that comes in and is just reading the chart and leaving. So, there’s an intimacy, which is really key to intuition—a deep intimacy—especially around such a powerful thing as life and death.
There is an intimacy moment where nurses have the experience of knowing what to do. I think parents can have this experience or we can have this with our lovers. There’s something about love that is very central. I don’t mean love necessarily in a romantic way, but connection, profound connection. If you’ll notice that in history, Tami, the people who are most intuitive and have made the biggest contributions to humanity—the scientists—well, I shouldn’t say the biggest, but great contributions—they make their contributions in the area of their greatest love. Mozart is not making a contribution to science. [St.] Vincent Millay—she’s writing poetry. She’s not evaluating or teaching what students should say—A or B.
What I really believe is intuition thrives in this compassionate and this love space. That is a natural requirement for most on-the-ground healthcare professionals in nursing. The reason why they have done the most research is that nurses report it. They report their experiences. Now that the word can be used much more and there’s starting to be a willingness to even—and when I’m working with them, they’re now telling the doctors, “Listen, I think maybe we should go this way. It’s my intuition. It’s my heart. It’s my gut.” And the physicians are listening to them. Whereas, maybe 20 years ago, a nurse would be very careful about saying that. That’s why I think there have been so many studies of intuition in nursing. We’ve got some heroines in that field. They’ve really risked a lot to do that.
TS: Sharon, can you make more explicit for me the relationship between being intuitive and what we love—what that connection is?
SF: Yes, certainly I can. A metaphor that I like to use is that intuition travels on love. Let me give you an example. One of the first people that really did a lot of research on intuition is J. B. Rhine. He was at Duke University. He created some cards. They had five symbols on [them] and people had to guess ahead of time what the symbol was. He did a lot of those studies and they all [had] interesting results.
Meanwhile, his wife, Louisa—it was the end of World War II and she was very interested in the topic too. She asked the American population—everybody—she had some access through Duke University—would people just send her intuitive stories. She collected thousands of them—a lot of them based on World War II events. Then she categorized them. Was this a person who had a dream experience? Was this a person who was in crisis and knew someone had died? How did these stories line up with what people were really experiencing? What emerged from it is the greatest number of people [had intuitive experiences that] were between two people that really were emotionally attached to each other—were basically in love, whether it was family love, romantic love, or friendship love. Those were the people that knew instantaneously that something had happened to their loved one when they were thousands of miles away.
Another example is—let’s think about Albert Einstein. Everyone knows who Einstein is and what he did about space, but not too many people know that one of the things that he did just because he loved it is he had a favorite game he played with himself. He jumped on a light beam and imagined what it would be like to travel through space. He did that ever since he was a kid.
Now, those two examples, to me, give us an insight that if you really want to have more intuition and develop this deep contact and this state of being that allows intuition to flow, fall in love with what it is you want intuition about. If you’re an artist, just let yourself love the art you are working in, deeper than you have before. What I like to say is have a conversation with your spirit. Tell your spirit you want to open up. You want to go to another level of being. You want to experience the knowledge that you’re born to know. And your spirit will start giving you steps. Don’t look for “you have to quit your job tomorrow,” or any of that. Just take the step of learning, and then, as you unfold that step, a next step will come. Underneath that path is going to be a joy and a love of life that just unfolds as you go.
TS: Sharon, I’m curious about this idea of intuition traveling on love. As you were speaking, I was thinking about people in my life that I’m very connected with and how I do often mysteriously know if something is troubling them or if something is wrong with their health. I think that probably listeners recognize this phenomenon in their own life. What I am curious to know is how that is happening. Clearly, it’s not happening at the “conscious mind” level, because I don’t even know that I could be thinking about this person or whatever. It’s just sort of appearing there. What’s your explanation for that?
SF: Well, I have two and I think they’re very related. One is this field that I keep referring to—this knowledge field. I believe that—I ask people to cease to identify themselves as an ego, and it’s going to sound strange, but identify yourself as a field—a field whose consciousness extends way out. You are affected by the permutations in the field that are part of your memory banks for your whole life. Let’s just hold that huge frame.
Then, let’s go to the physics of non-local interaction. This is sub-particle physics, so what I think is important is [that] we can’t say that our physical bodies, at the size that we are, are necessarily acting on the way things go in the quantum level, but it’s insightful. At the quantum level, if two particles are in relationship and they are blown apart and they travel—let’s just say it is 5,000 miles apart like it was in Europe for the families. What we know is that A and B are still related. So, if something happens to B, the particle 5,000 miles away, instantaneously, A responds in the same way that B responded. We call this “non-local.” Something is not locally happening. It’s happening a long way away. Yet, I feel that I am tied to that on the quantum level that we know is going on. We don’t know for sure what it is. But, I’d like to suggest that people hold the idea that that is very similar. If we consider the entire universe, we are a quantum fit in the entire universe. Those are two possible explanations that are out there and they’re known in science. We know that the field, certainly in metaphysics, exists. It matters who you’re in relationship with.
Another study that is really interesting—and I haven’t really had enough time, Tami, to really look at this. I don’t know if you’re aware of the study they did in England. There’s a book out right now that’s called Connected, and it basically is showing how people you’ve never met, but who are good friends with your friends, are influencing your life. The original study happened in New England with obesity. They were able to look at hundreds of people through medical records, and saw that people who—say I have a friend named Susan, and Susan has a friend named Mary. Mary starts gaining a lot of weight. I’m much more likely to gain weight, even if I’ve never met Mary. [It’s] very bizarre. Those are the studies right now. The subtitle of the book is How Your Friends’ Friends’ Friends Affect Everything You Feel, Think and Do. So, we are something larger than just ourselves.
TS: Sharon, one of the things I’m curious about—you talked about how nurses are in life-or-death situations and really care, often, about the health of their patients. Often, it seems, when people are in some type of healing crisis, that’s where they really want to have intuition about their situation.
“I want to have some type of knowing about this pain that I have on the left side of my body. What is it? I don’t quite know. If only I were more intuitive.” I start asking all of my intuitive friends to help me know which path of treatment is best. “What should I do?”
How do I know what to do when I’m ill and worried?
SF: Those are really excellent questions. I would say you can’t be your own doctor. Yet, at the same time, it’s vital that you tell your physician or your healthcare professional what you think is going on. A good physician is going to ask you, “What do you think is happening if you were going to diagnose yourself?” It’s vital that when you have an insight into yourself or your child, that you share that with your physician. Don’t feel that you know less than he or she does. That doesn’t mean you’re right, but it means that in the process of learning about what to do and how to trust and how to empower your own spirit, you’re taking the risk of making that part of yourself—you’re taking it out of the tacit world and making it in the explicit world.
So, the first thing I’d say to people is that question, “What do you think is going on?” Not, is my left leg really hurting me or is this—not to try to analyze down into your body and become a physician—but, what do you think is going on in the larger sense of your life? OK, you know you have this pain. What in—and again, seeing yourself as a field of experience—what is impacting you right at this moment? Are you depressed? Are you struggling with something? Is there something that is out of balance in other parts of your life? What do you think that you could be doing right now to help yourself heal? You might be surprised about what would come out of your mouth. That’s kind of how I approach that question. I don’t know if that’s helpful, but I hope it is.
TS: I’m curious about another area in which you work, which is helping people in business with intuition and working with leadership and teams. How do you help people develop their intuition in that context?
SF: Well, I am primarily working right now with healthcare professionals, so I need to go back. A lot of that is, again, I’m really helping people with identity. The identity part is the identity with the self that is full of knowledge [and] that is not egotistical—so you’re not right, but it has knowledge. If you’re in a position of leadership, it’s very important for you to see the entire field, as you are one piece in that field. You are not the top of the pyramid. You are one piece and the thing that you are most responsible for is keeping the field copacetic for everybody in the community. That means that your job is to be sensitive and aware. That is your very first job.
What your pulse is on is not the individual, but how the community is responding. That’s what your pulse is on. You’re looking for patterns and you’re looking for shifts and you’re looking for breakthroughs that are owned by the entire community—your team. It doesn’t matter where the breakthroughs come from. What you’re wanting is to set up a safe environment that fosters creativity and you are the person who is responsible for the field. You’re holding the field. That’s what leadership is about.
In that field, the intuition will flourish. You’ll have [people like] Pele that can see patterns. You’ll have people that are extremely good at emotions. You’ll have people that are great at creativity. You’ll have visionaries. They’re all there within that team. There’s a moment when the collaborative intuition jumps in and it is the sensation of being in the zone. Tami, everyone who has experienced that in a team, especially a work team, just feels higher than a kite. It is a wonderful experience to feel that everybody is in-sync and going forward—being propelled by something larger than themselves.
TS: It seems like some people are naturally super-intuitive, naturally gifted. Do you have any explanation as to why that is—why some people seem so much more intuitive naturally than others?
SF: OK, this is a pet peeve and a—I don’t believe that. The answer for me is that I think what happens—in this sense, we’re all born with the same capacity for intuition. We vary to the degrees up and down as we do in musicality, as we do in everything. That’s a given. We could ask, “Why is he a musical genius and she isn’t?” when they both have musical talents. Oftentimes, Tami, if you explore that deeper, you are going to find that the person who is most intuitive has had some sort of support system where others have not. That support system could be through spiritual and religious traditions in their family. It could be through someone who is a great athlete and is actually sharing that capacity to move in the athletic world with their children, and basically teaching the intuitive response through apprenticing. This is true whether—it doesn’t even matter what field it is.
What I like to say is that we are born with the same capacity for intuition. Women, for example, in our society, are given much more permission to be intuitive than men are, traditionally. I work a lot in Japan and they have something they call the hagi that is basically in their belly. A man would never make any decision, especially a business decision, without consulting his belly. In Japan, they make almost nothing of this. Well, men in the United States may say, “My gut tells me so.” Women are given lots of permission in our society to say, “My heart guided me.” “My heart told me.” And sometimes we say, “My mind tells me this—ooh, I knew that, but I didn’t do it.”
I feel like what we’re talking about here is a layer of cultural surrounding. If you were a Native American, for example, you would—many of my Native American friends and colleagues take it for granted that their ancestors and everything around them is live with spirits. Their ancestors can still come to them, just as many Japanese believe. In our culture, we don’t think like that, or we might call that a ghost. Just to say how complicated it is, it may—I don’t think that we’re different anymore than we are different in terms of music or other things. I think it’s key where we’re born and what kind of support we get throughout life.
In my own case, my grandmother really undertook my education and my mother did, too. So, I [came] through the female line in my family for that.
TS: Someone’s listening and they didn’t particularly have an intuitive mentor and they’ve heard you say to take some time to be still, to pause, to be outside of the rational world, to go into no time, but what else? What would be your key recommendations to become more intuitive?
SF: Thank you so much for asking this question. My first recommendation is to carve some time out in your life. It could be just as much as an hour, [which] sounds like a small amount of time. Really give some thought to spending time and how you would spend time alone. You’re going to go out—in native traditions, you would go to the top of a hill before sunrise. In the Sufi tradition, you might go in and put on some Sufi chanting in a room that you’ve set up. Anyway, you create what, for you, would be a very personal space.
In that space, Tami, ask your spirit—tell your spirit—you would like to open up to a more creative, peaceful, easy life. You’re willing and able and you’re interested. I love your word “curious.” You’re curious about the larger field that [you] could experience, not just with yourself, but with others. Make a small vow—it can be a sentence or two—to yourself—your own vow of how you would be willing, able, excited, curious, even have a lot of fun and enjoy the humor in the universe through opening up to intuition. That seems to be such a simple thing to do.
Then, every time you think about your intuition, remember your vow. You don’t have to even say it again. Just remember, you’ve done that—the universe heard you. As things come forward—as I said, you do not have to jump off the edge of a cliff—just decide what is a safe parameter for you to try this and then to try that. You will see you’ll open up and you’ll unfold. What’s really interesting is you’ll find sometimes your habits are changing—what you eat, how you think, how you want to spend time. Just keep going. What I can say is that I have had an incredible adventure in life ever since I said, “Yes!”
So, the answer is, just say yes to your intuition.
TS: One final question, Sharon. I think it’s fair to say that you’ve dedicated your life to studying and teaching intuition. You’ve been in this field now for more than three decades. Why?
SF: The literal answer is that when I was a young woman, my best friend was killed in a car accident and I had a visitation with her, which was an extremely powerful experience. I saw her as living light. She was dancing molecules. I woke from a sleep and she had just died. She shot a thought into my brain. I was wide awake in my bed. She said, “I’m very frightened.” I remember being startled and I felt this incredible power, almost like a whirlwind of light coming up inside my body like a rod and it shot out from my head. I found myself saying, non-verbally through this light, “You’ve been a person of love all of your life. You have no need to be in fear.” She disappeared just like the Star Trek people disappeared.
The intimacy and power of that exchange—I knew as a psychologist, this might be a crisis apparition, but I couldn’t really—I couldn’t do anything but get up and go into my living room and ponder what had just happened. I decided that this could be a crisis apparition or this could be something—this is how we really look. We really are beings of light. I didn’t care what the answer was. That’s when I made my vow to the universe and to God to follow the meaning behind what had happened for the rest of my life and to let it take me rather than me decide what should be happening.
That was a crucial moment in my life and I would say that it’s just been an amazing life ever since. I’ve never wavered in that commitment. I’m still learning—I’m still a student. I don’t feel like—I’m always exploring. I love working with people around this quality of being. I personally believe that, as I alluded to earlier, the human family has gone from instinct to intellect. Now, it’s really important that we incorporate the higher wisdoms of intuition. Just like intellect did not replace our instincts, I don’t think intuition is going to replace instinct or intellect, but it’s going to be an added dimension in our aliveness. Certainly in our global community, it’s essential.
TS: I’ve been speaking with Sharon Franquemont. With Sounds True, Sharon has created a six-session audio learning course, which is really a training program in intuition. It’s called Intuition: Your Electric Self: A Life Path of Illumination. She’s also created with Sounds True, a two-session audio program, You Already Know What to Do: Everyday Relationships for Relationships, Career, and Spiritual Development.
Sharon, we haven’t seen each other in a long time, but yet it’s great to talk to you. I’ve really enjoyed this time together. Thank you so much.
SF: You’re welcome, Tami. Thank you.
TS: SoundsTrue.com. Many voices, one journey. Thanks for listening.