E221: The True Meaning of Witness Consciousness

Tami Simon: Welcome to the Michael Singer Podcast, presented by Sounds True in partnership with Shanti Publications. For more information about Michael Singer’s work, access to all prior episodes and information about upcoming releases, we invite you to join us at michaelsingerpodcast.com.

Michael Singer: Mm-hmm. Jai guru dev, jai masters.

There’s certain subjects I can only discuss from inside. The deeper you go inside, the subtler the topics become. So we’re gonna touch this topic that I think people get often very wrong, which is witness consciousness. People write me and they say, “I’m witnessing. I’m witnessing. I see what’s going on in there, and I’m really getting uptight.

I’m really having trouble. I was doing okay to start with, but now I’m just feeling more depressed. I’m just sitting there watching. It’s causing it not to do well.” Well, that’s not what’s causing it not to do well. So let’s talk about that. But I want to start with something very subtle. There’s a difference between seeing and looking.

They sound very similar. “I’m looking at you. I’m seeing you.” They’re not even close. Seeing is passive. It happens by itself. There’s no will involved. You just see. What? What there is to see. You’re not judging it. You’re not touching it. You’re just noticing it. She’s over there. He’s over there. He’s over there.

Okay? He’s got a bright shirt on. You’re just seeing. Looking has intention behind it, has will behind it. “I’m looking for something.” Both are using the eyes, but it’s not as clean as just seeing. Do you see the difference? It’s deep. We’re talking deep tonight. All right? So if you’re looking for something, it means there’s a willful intent inside that is trying to either see something inside or see something outside, but there is intent involved.

There’s will involved. Seeing is not anything like that. Seeing is just… The Buddhists have a thing called just seeing. You’re just seeing. There’s nobody doing anything. You know? The camera just sees. You look, okay? And that looking is what makes the difference. If you’re looking, there will be tension, because you’re actually looking for it to be a certain way.

You think that witness consciousness means it’s quiet in there. “I can see what’s going on in there because I’m looking at it,” right? I’ll do it another way. If you can get this, it will change your life in terms of how quickly you grow. All right? If you’re looking, there’s intent. So if you see something coming up, and you’re looking to see if it’s what you want, to see if it’s okay, to see if it’s pure, to see if it’s spiritual, to see whether it’s gonna take you to God — you’re judging.

You’re looking at it. To do that, you have to catch it, maybe if it’s a thought or a feeling. You catch it, and you look at it, and you decide, do I let it go? Do I rationalize it? Or do I push it away to have to deal with it? Everybody with me? It’s pretty far back there, but you’re all back there, and there’s a big distinction between catching it and deciding what to do with it.

That is not witness consciousness. Versus you notice that it comes up and passes through. There’s nobody doing anything, you know, trying to make it pass through, because what’s the “it”? You have to have caught it so there’s an “it” that you’re letting pass through. Do you understand that? Otherwise, it’s just coming, you’re noticing, and you’re not touching it.

You’re not catching it. You’re not rationalizing it. You’re not thinking about what to do about it. Is it okay? I hope you understand me. It’s a very deep difference between letting it go and what other people think letting it go means. “I caught it, can I let it go?” How about if you don’t catch it? You just let it go.

Let it go through, as opposed to you catch it and then let it go. I need to know, can anybody understand the difference? Or am I just talking into the wind? Are you in there? Do you notice that what you call witness consciousness involves, generally, with most people, until they go very deep, it involves doing?

“I’m being the witness.” Well, then you’re not the witness. It’s a layer of mind that is looking at the lower layers of mind. And people will sometimes write me — it’s rare, but they’ll write me and say, “Now I see it. That was mind. I was calling it witness consciousness, but it was mind looking at what was below that layer of mind.”

And then that mind is deciding, do I let it go? Do I not let it go? Is this okay? Do I feel embarrassed? What are other people thinking? None of that is witness consciousness. Witness consciousness is like — you see, what’s behind me? Go look what’s behind me. How hard was that? I want to know. How hard was it for you to see what’s there?

Effortless. There’s no will. You don’t say, “Okay, I’m gonna look at that.” You just see it. It comes in and it passes through. That’s witness consciousness. You’re noticing that it’s coming in and passing through. You’re not touching it, you’re not judging it, you’re not liking it, you’re not not liking it, you’re not rationalizing it.

“Oh, I’m okay. I’m higher than it. Before I had worse thoughts than this, so I’m doing good. I’m in the witness.” No. I mean, it’s okay, you can call that witness. It is higher than being lost in what’s coming up, but I’m telling you, that layer of witness is mind, ’cause it’s still doing something. It’s still actively exercising this will that’s catching what’s coming up.

That’s the best thing to do. I once described it as the gatekeeper. There’s a gatekeeper in there, isn’t there? Especially if you’re spiritual. You all get this spiritual-ego gatekeeper, all right? It’s coming up, and somebody’s checking out, “Is this okay? Is this right? Is this clean? Is this where I wanna be?

Is it how I wanna be?” That’s the gatekeeper, okay? Look at me. That’s gotta go. I mean, if you wanna go deep, there is no gatekeeper. The great ones, they’ve let go to where everything that comes up passes through, and with it is this rush, this ecstasy, this flow of energy making it through without touching anything.

It’s like you’re gonna describe it as follows, and you will feel this, and when you get done, right? “Oh, what hast thou done to me? Wave upon wave of endless ecstasy saturates me day and night. Throng upon throng.” Those are not idle words. It’s throng upon throng waving through you. Nobody’s touching it.

It’s just ecstasy, and you’re merging in it. You’re not catching it. “Oh, I wish I felt more. It’s this. I used to feel…” There’s nobody in here except the experiencer. That’s the witness. How do you know you’re experiencing ecstasy? How do you know? ‘Cause you’re experiencing it. You can’t do anything about it.

Mind stops it. If mind for one moment says, “Oh, boy” — I used to have that. When I first started meditating, yoga, and I was very, very strong at seeing the light, and I remember the first time — this was back in ’72 — that I actually saw the light. I did these little things, right? It’s bam. The moment it came, it started to open up in there in the third eye, right?

The mind said, “Oh, there it is.” It goes away. Anybody notice? Okay. Kinda neat. You hear me? I wanna talk to you about how to get past those stages. So as long as there’s a gatekeeper in there, a layer that’s still mind — a very deep layer, but a very deep layer of active — they call them vrittis, still vibrations in mind, okay,

in a mental plane. While that’s still there, it’s going to judge. It’s going to judge. Is this okay? Is that wrong? Et cetera, et cetera. And if it feels okay with it, it will let it go. If it doesn’t feel okay with it, I’m telling you, it’s gonna push it down. Pushes it away. “I don’t want this thought. I don’t want a sexual thought.

I don’t want a thought that I might leave somebody. I don’t want a thought that somebody might not like me. I don’t want that thought. No, no, I shouldn’t have that thought.” What do you do with it? You had it, obviously, and obviously it didn’t pass through. Why? You stopped it. You actually stopped it from passing through so you could judge it. That’s the gatekeeper.

All right? And, you know, is that what trouble is — the fish doesn’t know they’re in water because they’re never out. Many, many people — but I hope not you guys — can’t hear a word I’m talking about, because they’ve never been out. It’s just, they’re in it and they’re judging themselves and they’re judging their thoughts.

That is not witness consciousness. That’s an active, active mind judging a lower layer of mind, which is fine. Fine. It stimulates you to do better, watch your food, watch eating. Keep… You’re watching your thoughts carefully. They say that, right? “Keep watching your thoughts carefully.” That is not the witness keeping watch on the thoughts.

That is your mind. How do you know what your thoughts are supposed to be? Somebody told you. Some book you read, some teacher, something, right? They told you, “You shouldn’t have those thoughts. Those are bad thoughts. That’s a really good thought.” All right? You have to catch it to judge it. If you don’t catch it, it goes right…

They asked Ramakrishna — I tell it all the time, great enlightened master — does an enlightened being, a totally liberated being, ever feel anger? And he said yes, but it’s like writing on water. What’s the difference? Go write on water. Go on, write it. Come on, write an essay. No one will ever see it. No one will ever read it.

Doesn’t even stay for one bit of a second. It just passes right through. That’s witness consciousness. You notice that you notice. That’s all. You’re not looking for it. You’re not looking away from it. You’re not judging it. You’re just in there like a camera, noticing what passes before it. It passes just…

It’s called just seeing. That’s a very Zen thing, just seeing. There’s a story, a beautiful story out of the Zen tradition. I’m being Zen tonight, okay? Where there was a student who stayed in the monastery, and he would go by and have — we call it satsang, but seshin, or whatever the Buddhists call it — with the master once a day.

So this student was walking by, and there’s this giant oak tree that’s been there, growing in the plaza, and he walks by, and he walks in and sits down with the master, and the master says, “What has changed in you, child? There’s all this light around you. What changed? You weren’t this way yesterday.

What happened?” He said, “Well, I was walking through the plaza, and I saw that oak tree. I saw the oak tree. And something happened, I don’t know. I… Here I am.” And the master said, “You’ve walked past that oak tree every single day since you’ve been here.” What is he talking about? He said, “But this time, I saw just tree.

It wasn’t an oak tree that my father planted once, or a forest of — no pollution — and the oak tree’s gonna die, or, ‘Oh my God, look how old it is, it must be one of the oldest oaks.’ Nothing happened. It was just tree.” That was when… That’s the teaching. It was just tree, and that’s a very high state I’ve been talking to you about.

It passed through, and you’re now a different person. When it becomes just life, everything is just what it is. There’s nobody in there judging it. There’s nobody there stopping it, nobody catching it. Somebody comes up to you and yells at you, there’s just yelling. There’s just this kind of thought. It just passes right through.

I don’t know what else, how to describe it to you. But that’s what’s meant by “just tree,” which is very Zen. You’ll see that. It’s just being, just tree. There’s nobody catching it. It’s not that it’s not there. It’s just, you’re not doing anything about it. It’s just passing right through. What happens then? The next moment happens.

Nobody held onto the last moment, so that you’re now not pure enough to experience the next moment, because you’re still lost in your judgments, your thoughts, or your impressions of the old, last moment. That’s not “be here now.” That all “be here now” stuff, okay? Can you do that? No, you can’t do that yet.

Why? Well, let’s talk about that. Can you do that? Yes. Is that a major stage in your liberation? Yes, it is. Yes, it is. In fact, I somehow got to get to that next stage. Let’s talk about that some. Now you’re there, being there, okay, and doing. Okay, fine. Eventually — and we’ll discuss how you get there — you’re not.

You’re just noticing. You’re just seeing what’s going on in there. Nobody’s catching it. Nobody’s letting go, not letting go. You’re just noticing. That isn’t even a high state. That’s way below where the masters go. Why? Because you’re still there. You’re not doing anything. You’re judging it.

You’re fighting it. You’re letting it go. You’re not stopping it. There’s nobody doing anything, but you are still aware that you are separate. “This is me.” They’re saying it, but “This is me noticing what’s going on down there.” That’s a beautiful state. That’s witness consciousness, okay? It’s true witness consciousness, right?

There are much higher states. What do you mean? Where the masters went, and I will use their words: you get to that state, and you’ve just been noticing for a long time. I guess what that means, you don’t need to be there anymore. There’s no reason for you to be. You’re not doing anything. You’re not judging anything, not catching anything, not letting anything go.

There’s no more letting go. There’s no more doing. There’s no more not doing. You’re just there. Well, at some point, it happens naturally. You can’t make it happen. It’s not an act of will. It’s part of evolution. You just naturally notice. Don’t think — you just notice that you don’t need to be there. You’re not doing anything.

And because you don’t need to be there, it goes back to another level. It starts to span out. Your focused consciousness, noticing — I’ll give it to you, noticing what you’re looking at. You’re noticing you have a body. You’re noticing there’s a world out there. You’re noticing there are thoughts. You’re noticing there are emotions.

Nobody’s doing anything about them. They’re just coming and going, a beautiful free flow. It’s a beautiful state. Witness consciousness, all right? No stress, no anxiety, no fears, no nothing. You’re just experiencing humanness. You’re experiencing life, okay? At some point, because you’ve been there long enough, you realize — you don’t think it, it just happens naturally — you don’t need to be there.

You’re not doing anything. Why do you need your consciousness to be focused on this body, this mind, these emotions? And the answer is, it doesn’t have to. It just got in the habit of doing that, of focusing, and it starts to let go at a whole other level than witness consciousness. It starts to let go of the consciousness that’s looking, that’s even seeing, even seeing what it’s seeing, and it starts to float back.

It starts to expand out naturally. I always teach… In the ’60s, they always said, “You want expanded consciousness.” No, you want to not contract your consciousness. Your awareness is already completely expanded throughout the entire universe. That’s what enlightenment is. When you let go of the level I’m talking about, of needing to be there to see what’s going on, right,

and not to mention do something about it — you need to be there because your thoughts, they’re a problem: “Be careful about eating too much.” In other words, be there and judge. Be there and be the gatekeeper. That doesn’t mean that you go out there and throw parties and have sexual freedom and food, eat whatever you want.

It’s not saying that. When you no longer have any urges to do that, because you haven’t blocked anything inside that’s hitting your garbage, causing you to want to release all these energies. It’s not renunciation. Renunciation is child’s play. If you have to renounce, it means there’s something you’d rather be doing than renouncing.

How do you choose what to renounce? “I don’t like Brussels sprouts. I’m gonna give them up for Lent.” No, that doesn’t count. So if you have needs, and you have desires, and you have fears, you’re going to be doing something, and therefore, you’d best discipline yourself and make sure you’re not giving in to all that garbage.

“And I have to figure out what’s okay, what’s okay to give in to, what’s okay to not. Where’s the balance?” Oh, everyone asks me those questions. Where’s the balance point when I should do something or shouldn’t do? Someday, there will not be a question like that ever in your mind, ’cause you’ll notice it doesn’t matter.

It doesn’t matter. If I go this way, then something’s gonna happen. Go that way, something’s gonna happen, and I don’t have to decide. You have to be fine — I have to just be fine with that moment of decision and fine with the results, okay? But you’re not thinking it out. So in any event, at some point, that urge that you have to control and manipulate, because it would go out and cause trouble and screw everything up — you don’t have that anymore.

I’m sorry to tell you. There are no needs. There are no fears. Yogananda’s guru told him, “If a lion jumps at you, feel fear.” But if somebody has to say hello, or you think somebody’s judging you, that’s ridiculous. There’s nothing happening. All right? So that kind of fear, psychological fear —

but there’s no desires. “Oh, I wanna live a life with no desires.” Wait till you find out. But no desires doesn’t mean I’m suppressing my desires. That’s an act of will. So it’s very hard for y’all to listen to, because… But I want you to hear the state, okay? If you’re done — I used to talk about being done.

When are you done? When you’re done. “I’m done eating.” How do you know? “I don’t want it anymore.” “But don’t you want more?” “No, I don’t, and there’s nothing inside of me asking me to do more.” And what about a relationship? “Well, sometimes there’s good times, sometimes there’s bad times. That’s what a relationship is.”

“You okay with that?” “Of course I’m okay with that. I don’t have to do anything about it. I don’t have to change the person so that they’re the way I want them to be.” You don’t have that anymore. And, yeah, my experience is the only way that really goes away is with this great teacher that you have — I heard you had it.

It’s called life. Puts you through some changes, doesn’t it? Life puts you through some changes. You find that over time you’re not the same person — a little freer maybe about certain things, and not as grabby, and not as needy, and not as jealous, and not as fearful. How about this: been there, done that.

That’s a real teaching, isn’t it? It’s not somebody told you what to do. You did the best you could, and you learned. You grew. You… Literally, the word’s not even “grew.” The right word is “evolve.” People are talking about the evolution of the soul. That’s what we’re talking about — that you, back there, that would be busy doing and grabbing and judging, at some point, about certain things, not everything, about certain things: “I’m done.

I don’t need that anymore. I don’t have to think it, even. There’s nothing in me that is trying to hold onto that or push that away. I’m comfortable with it.” Then you evolved. That’s different than learning. You literally evolved. Most of you guys, maybe when you were little, you played with dolls or with little trucks, okay,

and they were the most important thing. You had this really special one, right? Oh, you held onto that doll, didn’t you, right? You held onto that truck, and had a baseball, or whatever it was, right? Well, you don’t do that anymore. Did you renounce it? No, I outgrew it. I like these words. I evolved past that to where that is not what it’s about.

You change. So you grow through things. You used to be all about money. Maybe, you guys, it’s not one point — I just, “Oh, it’s all about how much money I have,” and then you realize it’s not. How’d you realize that? By suppressing? If you suppress, it still is there, although you wouldn’t have to suppress it.

The fact is you still have this thinking that it’s about money, it’s about relationships, it’s about sex, it’s about these different things, but “I’m not supposed to be like that. I’m a spiritual person,” spiritual ego, right? “So I’m gonna suppress those things. Now I’m not about them.” You are, so, otherwise you wouldn’t have to push them away.

But how do they come back up? No, don’t think like that. Don’t be like that. Now, can you hear me, anybody? All right. But I’m not telling you to not be like that. You have to go through what you need to go through. That’s all I can tell you. But there are ways to go through it very quickly. I’m painting a picture for you: when you are done with something, that’s a very spiritual state.

Not, “I’m done with you.” That’s not done. That’s you suppressing and trying to stay away from it. But when it doesn’t even… I tell you, like the white lines in the road — you really freak out when they’re yellow instead of white, don’t you? No. You just notice — that’s witness consciousness. You notice they’re yellow.

You notice they’re white. You don’t do anything about it. That’s how it becomes when you’re done with something. You don’t have to do anything about it. And we’ll talk more about how life takes you to that state and how to work with that. But at this point, I’m saying, when you’re done enough, there are no desires.

There are basic needs — food, clothing, shelter. That’s not a desire. That’s the body’s needs, okay? Doesn’t have to be some fancy house. Doesn’t have to be some fancy food that’s exactly the way you want it to be, tastes just what you want and the right amount. That’s not food, clothing, and shelter. That’s need.

“I need it to taste this way. I need it to be like that. I need a bigger portion, a little portion. I need this. I need that. I need, I need, I need, I need.” All right? When you’re done with the basics, you don’t have needs. You realize that just had me caught, trying to compensate for my problems by having these needs and trying to satisfy them.

I’m not telling you not to have needs. Yeah, but I did. But Eckhart always gave a talk called “Desire, My Great Enemy.” But that’s gonna make you suppress it and make you think, “I’m not supposed to have desires.” No, no. You’re supposed to not have desires — not “not have desires.” See the difference? It’s like, “I caught it, and I don’t like having these desires.

I shouldn’t have these desires.” That’s not having desires. That’s not wanting to have desires and therefore pushing them away. If you push them away, they’re still there, and you need to keep pushing them away. I’ve talked about it over and over again. But you will get to a point, and you will. Meditation helps.

Life helps. Life helps. Everything helps. Everything helps if you’re open, and we’ll talk about that more in a minute. If you work your way through it — which you’re not even… It’s not even you doing it, it just been there, done that. If you did it, that’s not been there, done that. I’m busy doing it. If you’re just, “Okay, okay, okay.

I’ve had relationships. Some of them work, some of them don’t. I’m not against them. I’m not for them. I’m not waiting for my soulmate to show up. I’m not doing anything. I just don’t feel the need I used to have.” Does that mean I won’t have a relationship? No. That’s wonderful, right? But I don’t need it. I’m fine without it.

I’ve learned, I just learned that I’m fine. I’m fine. Okay? But — but you’re a social animal. I am not. I’m the self. I am the self, whole and complete within myself. You understand that? The consciousness is whole and complete within itself, but you can’t make yourself be that way. It has to be something you learn, has to be something you grew through, has to be something you reach — that state of evolution.

How’s that? Animals evolve through their bodies. You evolve through your inner being. You have all these experiences. So what happens if there aren’t these needs? Then there’s no need for someone to be there handling the needs. There doesn’t need to be a gatekeeper. There doesn’t need to be somebody in there who’s checking it out, because there are no needs.

It’s fine with it, fine without it. There’s no success, there’s no failure, there are no likes, there are no dislikes. Why? How can there be no like or dislike? I don’t know. Does that mean somebody’s gonna say, “Been there, done that”? Have you seen enough likes and dislikes as you have walked through your life to catch on that there will always be likes and dislikes?

You struggle to get what you want, you struggle to stay away from what you don’t want, and you just end up struggling, and at some point you wake up and say, “I don’t think so. I think I can handle what’s there. I can handle it.” Not “I can deal with it.” “I can handle it. It’s fine. It’s reality. I don’t have to stop it and judge it and work with it.”

People talk about, “You just need to work on yourself.” Someday you will never have to work on yourself, because there’s nothing in there that needs to be worked on anymore. It’s not doing the desire-and-need thing. Okay? It fell away. That’s what it does. It falls off when you’ve been there, done that. You’re not making it do that.

It just does that because you grew. I don’t know what to tell you. You’ve been through it. You’ve been through so many things. You’re not the same person. Suddenly you’re not the same person you were yesterday. All right? You just keep changing, you keep growing, and hopefully you’re growing in the right direction, which is you let go.

When you’re in there, into the deep states of witness where nobody’s touching anything, you’re just noticing it. Like Ramakrishna — it doesn’t matter if anger comes up. Fine, it passes through. Who cares? What harm does anger do if it goes, whoop? Nothing. There’s nothing. Why judge it? Why say, “I’m not supposed to feel anger”?

Who said? Anger’s part of the human stuff, right? But you don’t touch it. You didn’t do anything about it. “I don’t have to catch it and release it and figure out how to deal with this anger,” right? Come on, you felt anger. You’d better deal with it. Otherwise you yell at somebody or hit somebody or cause all kinds of trouble. When it just passes right through like the breeze — what do you do about the breeze?

A reasonable ten-mile-an-hour breeze — “I stop it. I can’t handle it.” What if you can handle it? Then you don’t touch it. You don’t need to touch it. You’re not not touching it. I don’t know how to talk like this, right? You’re not not touching it. You’re not touching it. There’s no reason to touch it. It’s just a nice breeze that blows through.

Anger can be that. Things can be — I’m not telling you they should be, but they just come and go. Just energy passing through, and if you don’t touch it — but if you have the tendency to touch it, you’ve already touched it. You caught it, and then, “I should let this go,” right? When you get very high, there’s no tendency to touch it.

Doesn’t mean it’s not there. It just passes right through. When I was talking about the higher states, once you reach that state, which is true witness consciousness, there’s no reason to be there focusing on yourself. There’s no reason to be noticing or focusing on the thoughts. They’re fine. They just come and go.

And what happens, they release their bondage that they have on you. You used to have to watch the thoughts, watch the emotions, watch the world. Now you don’t, because nothing’s happening in there. It’s fine. And it naturally lets go. It’s just, you don’t do it. It naturally doesn’t have to be there, so it’s not.

And it starts to drift up. That’s why I was telling you, it’s not about expanding your consciousness. It’s about ceasing to contract your consciousness. You’re contracting your consciousness by staring at you, by staring at your thoughts, and staring at your emotions, staring at your feelings, all that, right?

It focuses down to this point. As that ceases to bind you, to distract you, it naturally goes back to its source. And the great ones went all the way back. They went all the way back. They talk about that moment of letting go of your sense of individuality. It’s not something you do. It’s something you let happen.

And they talk about how difficult that is. That’s what Christ meant by dying to be reborn. You literally let go of this sense of individuality, ’cause you’re not individual. You’re the divine consciousness focusing on your stuff. As you… I’ll go deeper, but as you don’t need to do that, then it doesn’t happen.

And enlightenment is a very natural state. In fact, I tell you guys, you’re already fully enlightened. That is where you, in there — your consciousness in there, the source of that awareness — is the divine oneness. You are already there, but you’re being distracted by what you think you still need to deal with, right?

And then the consciousness gets pulled down to this focal point. Okay, so we started with witness consciousness, saying that it’s not about catching it, looking at it, and then letting it go. It’s about noticing, just noticing it. All right. Nice discussion, and I hope you can feel the inspiration of what a great being you are.

I’m telling you, you are with Christ. You are with Buddha. You are with all the great masters. That’s where you are right now, not later, not some day. But you’re focusing on this mind and on this stuff. So how do you get there? They give you all kinds of techniques, and they’re wonderful. I always tell you, whatever your teachings are, whatever your techniques — some of them are pretty weird.

Whatever helps you to let go of yourself, that’s the essence. It’s all about letting go of yourself. If you’re in there and you catch on that this “I” in here that keeps coming up — “I want this, I need this, I like this” — what if every time the “I” showed its face, I relaxed? Not controlled it, not suppressed it, not hugged it, right?

Just, just relax. Then it starts to fall away. And that’s my experience of all my years, fifty-five years, right? The highest technique is letting go of yourself, is dying to be reborn. Meher Baba said, “Man minus mind equals God.” If you’re willing to let go of everything that comes up as it comes up, not control it, not judge it, just — okay.

And you don’t even wait till it comes up. There’s a point at which it starts to come up. You see it. You see it. You see when you’re getting weird. Don’t tell me you don’t. You see when you get in a mood. You see when you feel angry. You see when you feel jealous. You see when you feel scared. You see this stuff, don’t you?

And you actually see it right when it starts, but you want to check it out. You want to find out, “Why do I feel fear? What happened? What did this person do? Why do I feel jealous? What are they doing?” You still want to go down there and get all involved in the junk. “You think I can work it out,” which is fine.

You know, just do the best you can. But when it’s said and done, when you’re ready, willing, and able to be an explorer — your life’s here. It’s gonna be gone in eighty, ninety years. You hear me? Are you willing to explore reality? Check it out. Then every time it starts to come up, you relax. Keep your hands to yourself and let it go the best you can.

Doesn’t mean it’s gonna go every time, but over time, it goes. And what happens with it is, you start reaching states of been there, done that, without having to do the karma, without having to go through all those experiences that we have to. Some you have to go through. We’ll talk about that in a second.

But if you can relax through it, you’ll start noticing, it doesn’t bother me anymore. I had a friend who once told me — I’ll never forget, it was years and years ago. He said, “I guess I’m really growing.” He was out here for many years. “I guess I’m really growing.” And I said, “Why?” He said, “I was at work, and something happened at work, and I didn’t even — I didn’t notice, and I was driving away, and I noticed that would’ve bothered me.

I didn’t even notice it. It just — it was like any of them, like the white lines on a road.” There, you grew. Okay? But one way you grow very quickly is to participate in the process of letting go of yourself, as opposed to having to go through all this stuff outside, which is fine. I don’t ever want you to think that I teach you not to go through what you need to go through.

But if you ask me, “How do I know that I need to go through it?” — you know how to talk to me. The new book goes into all this stuff, right? Deep, deep questions. You know, Wisdom Untethered. “How do I know if I need to go through it?” If you’re asking me, you probably don’t need to go through it. If you find that you’re in it and look back later, “How did it get here?” —

You probably needed to go through it. See the difference? It’s like there’s a lot of energy in there. It can sweep you away, can’t it? And you go through what you need to go through because it swept you away. It swept you away with fear. It swept you away with love. It swept you away with attraction, with whatever it is, okay,

or it swept you away with self-consciousness. “I’m embarrassed. I don’t want to do anything.” You don’t have a choice. You’re writing me saying, “Mickey, what do I do if I notice that I’m embarrassed?” No, if you don’t notice anything, you’re lost in it. That’s when you know you need to go through it — you’re going through it.

You’ve been there. There have been situations in your life you didn’t decide that just caught you. It was like a wave of fear, of anger, or jealousy, or love, or whatever it is, just swept you away. You didn’t write me and say, “Should I go with it?” Because then you’re still there. You’re still there thinking there’s a choice, okay?

Yes, anybody listening? Have you noticed that it can do that? It can sweep you away, and you look back and, “How’d I get here?” We get pretty lost, can’t we? Ever get really lost? But that’s a growth experience. There’s nothing wrong with getting lost. If you do the best that you can every moment to let go of what’s coming up, and then you find that something sweeps you away, and you look back, or don’t look back, you’re still caught up in it — I’m telling you, that’s how you grow.

Because at the end of that, you say, “Oh, been there, done that. You went through it. I’ve been through that. I’ve been through that first attraction and just falling in love, thinking it’s gonna last forever.” Anybody been there? You know, you know. And then realizing, well, it didn’t. It literally didn’t. “I loved them with all my heart.

When I was getting married, I wasn’t thinking about what we would do when we get divorced.” Somebody once said — it was one of the movies, and I remember they talked about that, and they said, “Marriage is not a choice.” When you have no choice, it’s just swept you away, and you can’t think of anything else, and you’re totally lost in it.

Go ahead and get married. It’s a very good thing, as opposed to figuring it out legally, and how old somebody’s gonna be when you’re old, and how many kids you’re gonna have, right? That’s not exactly being swept away. But if you are swept away, and you go with it, it sweeps you away — there’s real learning to do.

You’re not in there thinking, “I have stuff to learn,” but, you know, then the divorce shows up three, four years later, and all this ugliness is going on. I hope you’re conscious enough not to get scarred by it, but say, “Thank you. Thank you for the experience,” and realize, well, I’ve been there. I’ve seen that.

I’ve seen how it can be like that. It’d be swept away completely, and then it changes. They change. I change. Everything changes, and then it’s not like that. There’s nothing wrong with that. You go through it, and you learn something — like learning tennis, or learning an instrument. You learn. Life’s your teacher.

But if you’re sitting there thinking, “I don’t have to go through this, but it’ll be fun,” or “I care, I care, I’ll throw the dice” — well, that’s different. Okay, now we get some karma. Now you didn’t have to go through that. You chose to go through that, and it usually gets pretty ugly. You understand that? As I don’t use the word “karma” with you guys, I’d rather call it a growth experience.

But if you purposely did it and knew it was out of balance, what’s gonna come back is pretty harsh. See the difference? Okay. So now you’re learning, as you walk through your life — or, excuse me, as you’re pulled through life — you get to the point where you can feel, “I grew. That’s all I can tell you. I grew.”

As you get older, you certainly start… Some people, I’m just amazed how many older people still have all these desires and cravings and bucket lists and all kinds of stuff, as opposed to, “I’ve been there, done that. I’ve had a full life full of it, right? I learned my lessons.” Okay, you learned your lessons?

And I feel good about it. I feel very good about it. That’s what it means to mature as you get older. In any event, so you’ll go through these processes of growing, of evolution, and you are literally evolving. What does that mean? “I’m evolving inside, so I’m not clinging and holding and grabbing. I’m opening.”

I’m opening, and that will help you go back further. And witness consciousness becomes a natural state. What happens if… I’ve talked about it. “What happens if I screw things up?” You can’t screw things up. You can do the best that you can with the awareness that you have. And I don’t like it when you ever look at yourself later and say, “I screwed it up.”

The only way you screwed it up is if you knew it was full of it, you did it anyway, and it caused trouble. You get to look at that. But if you’re doing the best you can to see what’s going on and make some good decisions and do the best you can with the energy that you’re working with, and you find out later that you grew enough that you would not have done that again, don’t you dare look back and feel guilt.

Don’t you dare look back and feel shame. You grew. You’re not the same person. You should look back at that person that made the mistake and say thank you. Thank you for going through the growth that we had to go through to get where I am now. And what’s gonna happen as you keep letting go, there’s more and more joy.

And that’s what you mean by, “to get where I am now, I’m doing much better now, but I had to go through what I had to go through. The divorce taught me a lot. I could see where I was screwing things up. It wasn’t really just him or her,” and so on, and you just — you grew. I don’t know what to tell you.

You’re allowed to grow. You’re supposed to grow. Earth is a place that souls are sent to evolve, okay? That’s called a mature spiritual being who’s growing. But you don’t purposely do it so you can grow. It’s just, life takes you through what you need to go through, and you learn, and you grow. So you go through what you need to go through, and what that means is life will take you on the journey, the long and winding road that you need to go through.

You do the best that you can to let go. You still do. You’re doing the best you can to let go. Let go of what? You know what. Don’t you dare ask me what. Every one of you knows exactly what you should be letting go of, all right? What comes up and causes that trouble and could cause more trouble, and you just do the best you can.

If everyone does the best that they can, the best that you can is always good enough. I’m not giving you permission to do stupid things. But if you do the best that you can, don’t you dare judge. Don’t you dare look back and judge who you used to be. All right? Why bother growing if you feel guilt about the growth you went through?

Okay? So now look what happens. You’re naturally evolving. You’re naturally being able to handle things you couldn’t handle before. How do you know? ‘Cause you can handle them, and you just keep growing. If you do this, you will find that you’re further back. Why? ‘Cause you’re not being pulled down. By what?

Desires, and fears, and anxieties, and likes, and dislikes, and you’re not being pulled down by all that garbage that’s distracting your consciousness now. It’s much cleaner than that. And so, as you let go, you float back. It’s just… it’s called the ascent. That’s the ascent. It’s not something you do. I told you, it’s like having a hot air balloon or a helium balloon, and it’s tethered to the ground.

Keep trying to raise it up. Put more air in it. Put more hot air in it. Put more helium in it. No, it’s just gonna bounce up and down. It’s not gonna do anything. Cut the tethers, and what’s gonna happen? Effortlessly, it will go up by itself. That’s what you’re doing when you let go of yourself. So you don’t have to try to evolve.

You don’t try to evolve. Evolution’s a natural process, and — the Masters do talk about it — are you willing to work with the evolutionary process as opposed to against the evolutionary process? If you’re in there realizing, “I wanna evolve. Where I am today, I won’t be tomorrow, that’s okay, so I’ll be letting go as best I can, letting go of the tendencies that are holding me down” —

and you know what they are. Don’t you dare tell me you don’t know what they are. You just don’t wanna deal with it, okay? And if you don’t know what they are, then you need to go through it. I love it. Thank you. Anybody see the difference? Otherwise, are you dealing with the stuff that you know is full of it inside of you?

You know, it’s too hard. It hurts. “I’d like to let go of all this stuff I stored from the past.” Why? “It’s painful.” Good. Don’t you get it? You don’t want that stuff in there. Those are the anchors that hold you down. It’s having the will to sit there and say, “Take me through what I need to go through. I’ll scream and yell, but just take me through what I need to go through so I can get free and liberated.”

But you can’t do it. You have to let it happen. Is it gonna be painful? Sure. You stored all this stuff in there, and as it comes up, it’s hard. It’s difficult, isn’t it? Let’s have compassion. Let’s have understanding. Do the best you can to relax through it and keep relaxing through it. You’re evolving. And until you eventually get to the point where the things that you thought you couldn’t handle, you don’t even notice, right?

They’re just — okay, fine. Been there, done that. I’ve been through that. I’ve seen that, okay? “I have a blemish on my face, and I have to go to the senior prom in high school.” Boy, that’s a drama. What am I gonna do, right? Let’s say — fine, it’s nothing, right? You grow up, and all of a sudden it doesn’t matter.

It’s not that it’s not there. It doesn’t matter, right? And you just realize that the world’s not the way you think it is — not everybody’s staring at you, judging. Everybody… You think they are ’cause you’re doing it to yourself. They’re too busy doing it to themselves, right? You start to catch on.

Doesn’t matter what people think. It doesn’t matter. That’s a good one. Does it matter to you what people think? Does it matter to you if people like you or not? Wait till you see that one go away. Can we spend a second with that one? ‘Cause that’s a big one. They don’t like you or not like you — they either like or don’t like the part of themselves that came up in your presence.

You don’t know whether they like you. They had totally different lives than you. They had totally different experiences. The very thing that you think’s turning them on — ew, inside they’re turning off, right? How do you know what somebody else is thinking? You think you know because it’s what you would be thinking.

It’s a major liberation to catch on. Don’t ever think about what people think about you. Think about how you’re doing inside. Do the best that you can, because what you think they think about you… I used to check it out. Oh, I shouldn’t tell you this. When I started growing, and I woke up very early in the ’70s, I first had my deep witness experiences.

He would be a maniac in there, Mickey. Couldn’t live with him, because I’d try to shut him up all the time. I was very, very Zen, very disciplined. I would literally walk up to total strangers and say, “Were you judging my hair?” I’m a hippie wearing long hair. And at first they’d look at me like, “No, I didn’t even notice.”

Okay, chalk one up. Strike one. And I would just keep trying to show him how wrong he was, and he was always wrong. How do you think you know what somebody else is thinking? What are you, psychic? You don’t even realize that you’re thinking that they’re thinking what you’re thinking. So you catch on that you don’t have to do this, and then you let go.

It’s a natural thing. It’s not a forceful thing. Now you can be the witness. Now you’re not looking at what people think about you. You’re not looking at who’s staring at you. You’re not looking if it looks like somebody doesn’t… Whatever. You’re not, not looking. You’re just seeing. I’m going back to where I started.

You’re just in there, you’re free. You get to be — I would like to be free. I’d just like to be free of all that stuff. Make a point of leaning away, leaning away from yourself. Not pushing away. That’s the highest thing I’d ever teach you. You’re not pushing your lower self away. You’re just leaning away from it so that it’s free to pass through.

Just go and try it sometime. Just lean away from ego. Don’t push it away. Don’t not like it. Just notice you got an ego. You got something in there that cares what people think about you, and what you look like, and listens to what you said three days ago, right? You want that to pass. Let it pass. Don’t push it back down.

Don’t suppress it. Don’t not like it. Just realize, okay, there’s ego being ego. There’s a snake being a snake, a butterfly being a butterfly. There’s ego being ego. That’s what I told you, you gotta be okay with it. Can you handle your ego? Not be your ego and not not be your ego. You got one? Everyone’s got one.

Who’s willing to lean away from it? Not touch it, just lean away from it. Here it comes, doing its thing. You keep leaning away. Eventually you realize, “I can handle that. I don’t have to do anything about it.” The more of life that you can handle, the less you have to be there to do something. That’s called liberation.

You become free. Doesn’t mean you’re not working. It doesn’t mean you don’t have a relationship. Doesn’t mean anything. It means you’re not busy doing something. You’re just flowing with life. You’re being with life. You’re serving. Eventually, instead of serving yourself, you serve life. You don’t even think about it.

You don’t think you’re serving life. It’s just, because you don’t need anything, you just take care of what’s in front of you. Just give. Just keep giving. And the reward of that is where we started: you’re not in there staring. You’re not in there looking. You’re just seeing. And because you’re just seeing, you notice, “Fine, I just see.”

I don’t do anything about it. You don’t do anything about it. You don’t have to be there to watch it. And this natural evolution of floating up — it just keeps floating up and becoming higher and higher. And when it floats up enough, I’m telling you, the Shakti begins to really flow. And that’s what the master talked about: “A throng upon throng of ecstasy saturates me day and night.”

That’s where you live. You wanna feel love? Just wave your hands across your chakras. All this energy comes flying out for as long as you want, whatever you want. And now you don’t have to do anything, because you already have everything you ever wanted, period. And so you can become the servant of others and help others.

I hope… This deep talk, I knew someday it was going to come out. I tried to never talk about it. Do you understand? You’re in there. What are you doing in there? I hope that if there’s an answer, it is letting go. That’s what I’m doing in here. I’m letting go of me. I’m dying to be reborn. Man minus mind equals God.

I’m letting go of it. I’m not fighting it. I’m not suppressing it. I’m not staring at it. I’m not judging it. Doesn’t mean it’s not there. It just passes through if you let it. All right? Jai guru dev.

Tami Simon: You’ve been listening to the Michael Singer Podcast, produced by Sounds True in partnership with Shanti Publications. For more information on Michael’s body of work and all back episodes, please join us at michaelsingerpodcast.com. Thanks so much for listening. Sounds True, waking up the world.