{"id":19428,"date":"2022-02-18T14:25:39","date_gmt":"2022-02-18T21:25:39","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=19428"},"modified":"2022-02-18T14:25:39","modified_gmt":"2022-02-18T21:25:39","slug":"hard-pivot","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/hard-pivot\/","title":{"rendered":"Hard Pivot"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon:<\/b> Welcome to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> produced by Sounds True. My name\u2019s Tami Simon. I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True, and I\u2019d love to take a moment to introduce you to the Sounds True Foundation. The goal of the Sounds True Foundation is to provide access and eliminate financial barriers to transformational education and resources such as teachings and trainings on mindfulness, emotional awareness, and self-compassion. If you\u2019d like to learn more and join with us in our efforts, please visit SoundsTrueFoundation.com.<\/span><\/p>\n

You\u2019re listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. Today, my guest is Apolo Ohno. Apolo is an American short track speed skater, and an eight-time medalist in the Winter Olympics. Apolo is the most decorated American Olympian at the Winter Olympics and was inducted into the U.S. Olympic Hall of Fame in 2019. He\u2019s also a global cross-industry entrepreneur, a successful sports broadcaster and television personality, and in 2011, he wrote the book <\/span>Zero Regrets<\/span><\/i> and became a New York Times best-selling author. And now with Sounds True, Apolo Ohno is releasing a new book. It\u2019s called <\/span>Hard Pivot: Embrace Change. Find Purpose. Show Up Fully.<\/span><\/i><\/p>\n

What impressed me the most about this conversation is Apolo Ohno\u2019s vulnerability, his willingness to share his inner experience and to continue with each phase of his life to give everything that he has to be excellent and give to other people, contribute to other people to bring his gifts forward. Here\u2019s my conversation with the ever newly inventing himself, the bold and brave, Apolo Ohno.<\/span><\/p>\n

Apolo, you\u2019re the first gold-medal Olympian ever to be on <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> and, believe it or not, the first gold medal Olympian I\u2019ve ever spoken to. So, this is really an honor. Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Apolo Ohno:<\/b> Oh, of course, thanks for having me.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Okay. You\u2019ve written a new book called <\/span>Hard Pivot<\/span><\/i>. What inspired you to write the book? Let\u2019s start there.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO:<\/b> Well, I started writing the book about two-and-a-half years ago. And I thought that it was important to basically have an entire process in which I was able to document my whole reinvention process or at least my psychological framework that I went through both during and post career. A lot of the people that I had spoken to throughout my years of doing executive leadership, both coaching and motivational speaking, I saw the similarity in a lot of the same struggles between our own two years that many of us face.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then COVID came, and as I was continuously writing the book, I just saw a lot of people who also faced a lot of the same uncertainties and doubts, and questions that I think all of us have had. Mine came originally from the Olympic career and then deciding what I was going to do next. And so, just wanted to start the dialogue in a way that helps people realign with the things that are the most important to them, and not lose sight of them while also embracing the fact that life will consistently be giving you change and challenges, and how can we embrace that in a way that really suits us to pursue our best self?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> You write about leaving the world of speed skating at the age of 27 and experiencing this like a great divorce. I thought that was dramatic language and quite honestly, so is the language of <\/span>Hard Pivot\u2014<\/span><\/i>versus language that\u2019s like a \u201cslow, gradual, evolutionary process where a turn is made slowly over time.\u201d Talk a little bit about that period in your life, where you left the world of speed skating and why it was such a dramatic shift for you?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO:<\/b> Well, the dramatic shift was because the only identity that I knew that I had at the time was really married and signaled from the world of the Olympic pursuit. And for 15 years plus that\u2019s all that I cared about. It\u2019s all that I was recognized for. It was given in terms of the head nods of approval from my family, my friends, fans, strangers, sponsorships, coaches, teammates, that this was the path, and this was the right progression for my own life in terms of experiences and purpose. Then when the day came that when I decided on my own to retire, the conversation was, \u201cOkay, well, what\u2019s next? What else are you good at?\u201d And it was tough. I had heard about stories from other athletes, and Olympic athletes specifically, that found the transition really difficult to replace (or try to replace) the same amount of passion and excitement and drive that we had in the Olympic space.<\/span><\/p>\n

Over the next decade, there was this weaving in and out of this constant battle between\u2014are you good enough? Do you have any other skill sets? How do you begin anew when you feel like you\u2019re starting over? When you feel like you are starting from scratch?<\/span><\/p>\n

That feeling was unfamiliar, and it was uncertain, and it was scary. It was really scary. It also was really uncomfortable. Throughout that process, I think that two things happened. One, there came a consideration of really divorcing myself from my previous identity. At least for a period of time, until I was really willing to embrace the fact that, \u201cHey, I actually may never find replacement for what speed skating and the Olympic path gave me,\u201d and that\u2019s okay. That\u2019s fine. That was a chapter in my life that I should be celebrating and happy about, but I don\u2019t have to remain stuck in the past in both those experiences and the things that maybe held me back or helped me to get there.<\/span><\/p>\n

Instead, I would love to be able to realign with my own or new life purpose and meaning, and things that are exciting and passionate in a new realm. And a lot of that came from that conversation around the great divorce. Most of this, by the way, is between one or two years, right? A lot of this we know, but we\u2019re still having those conversations, and self-doubts, and insecurities, and critical nature.<\/span><\/p>\n

It was difficult for me, and I thought it would be really important for me to have this radical transparency and openness to the book that showed people like, hey, maybe from the outside looking in you see this incredible career that seemed [that] the trajectory was up and to the right; that\u2019s not the case at all. There were many times where there was immense amounts of fear and discomfort and conditioning that all that I was ever going to be was an Olympic athlete, and that\u2019s what I was here for, and the best was behind me. And I think I could decide to either choose that as a decision or I could say, \u201cNo, that was an incredible moment in time, but I choose to go upon a path that is still filled with exploration and curiosity.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>What gave you the clarity at age 27 that you needed to \u201chang up your skates?\u201d I don\u2019t know if you do hang up skates. Do you hang up skates? But you know what I mean.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>I know what you mean. I don\u2019t know if there was clarity. I can tell you that I felt as if I had somewhat mastered not the sport, but I had mastered the art of preparation to be my best in the sport. The blueprint actually was quite familiar, even amidst its own mini reinventions that occur inside the sport. I sought for something that was different, that was against the grain, that was unfamiliar. And I also just was hungry to just explore other parts and facets of my personality. That was the number one thing, was really just I\u2019m naturally a curious person. And so, being relentlessly curious allowed me finally to say, \u201cWell, I\u2019ve always had these different things I\u2019ve always wanted to explore and pursue, but I\u2019ve always just shelved them because of the priorities that I decided that were more important.\u201d Now it was my choice and time to say, \u201cWell, you have the choice if you want to go and explore those. You can\u2019t have one foot in and one foot out. You\u2019re going to have to dive in headfirst.\u201d And that\u2019s exactly what I did.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>You wrote in <\/span>Hard Pivot <\/span><\/i>that at this period in your life, you felt like you were going to die at a certain point, that it was that intense to make this shift. I want to address that person, Apolo, who knows that they\u2019re called to make a change in their life. They have that hunger, they have that curiosity, but going through a passage where they feel that their identity is so shattered, that they feel like they\u2019re going to die. \u201cI don\u2019t know if I can do that. I don\u2019t know if I can do that.\u201d What would you say to that person?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>I would say that there are two things. [\u2026] One, your response naturally is a part of the human experience. The reason why you are saying those things is because your body is trying to tell you or your emotional state is telling that, \u201cHey, don\u2019t continue. Stay in the safe zone. Stay in the arena that doesn\u2019t allow for growth\u2014but at least it\u2019s predictable.\u201d Even if you know that it\u2019s bad for you, i.e., a bad relationship, i.e., a job and you absolutely despise, at least you know it\u2019s going to happen and it\u2019s predictable; predictable gives you some sense of safety.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then there\u2019s the other side that says, \u201cWell, I know that this is a natural human response to things perhaps that are unfamiliar and require change and some difficulty, and I\u2019m going to venture into that.\u201d What people feel, I think, in similar ways, that a part of you is going to die or could die, some of that is somewhat truthful. I think in terms of our own, call it our own marriage to certain parts of our business cards, so to speak, we forget that it\u2019s just a title. It\u2019s actually not who we are, and it\u2019s the attributes and the experiences that make up that person who is on that business card.<\/span><\/p>\n

Instead of being married to the title of \u201cApolo Ohno, Olympic speed skater champion,\u201d I can say to myself, \u201cWell, what were the things that led me down that path? What were the things around the hard work, and the discipline, and the work ethic, and just the joy of pursuing the sport in its obsessiveness that it was?\u201d And those things can be transferable into the next phase of your life, but you need to be willing to allow a part of you, at least for a period of time to be quieted and not be the dominant force to try to speak up, right? Those voices that we have in terms of, \u201cNo, no, don\u2019t forget. This is what got here. This is what always is going to get you here, and this is the thing that\u2019s the most important to you.\u201d Instead, saying, \u201cHey, that\u2019s okay, that that voice was there.\u201d It served me in a certain part of my life, but sometimes you have to quiet that voice in order to hear and listen to the other ones. Does that make sense?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>It does. And what would you say, Apolo, were the attributes that you developed from those years of training that you wanted to bring forward and what perhaps did you not want to bring forward?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>I\u2019ll start with the latter. The things I did not want to bring forward were this immense fear of failure that existed in this almost internally toxic environment where I wasn\u2019t allowed to be present or talk about how I really felt at my core transparently. Instead, I was thinking to myself in a world where I always had to keep going. I was unsatisfied no matter if I won. I just always wanted to just continuously keep improving. There are attributes that are great to be a part of that, but you don\u2019t want your life to slip by in a way that you\u2019ve been so married to the results to dictate the outcome of your happiness. That\u2019s the opposite way.<\/span><\/p>\n

Even when I think back on this today, a part of this process that I think many Olympic athletes go through including myself around why it is that we do these things, these attributes. My core tenets go back to hard work, trying my best to be kind, learning how to embrace difficulty, and adaptation. Some of the exercises that we have inside of the book that are really simple, by the way, require us to actually list these things out on a piece of paper, right? I\u2019m looking now at my books and some of the positive attributes are \u201chumanitarian, mentally tough, loyal, curious, analytical, grateful, strong work ethic.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

On the other side of the page, we\u2019ve got things that I perhaps would love to change. This fear of failure that always seems to be constant in my own conditioning. The fact that I\u2019m impatient; I want the results today. I don\u2019t want to wait another four years for the Olympics; I want it today. Being obsessive to the point where I can alienate friends and family and loved ones in order to pursue this one particular goal. To listen to the external expectations and be driven by them when they don\u2019t really matter. Distracted and then, of course, one of my favorites, which is FOPO, this \u201cFear of Other People\u2019s Opinions,\u201d and then allowing that to dictate and make us live our lives based on someone else\u2019s expectations, versus our own for our own self.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Okay. But let me ask you a question here, Apolo, because you write in the book, \u201cWhen I competed, I almost always operated from a mindset of fear and inadequacy,\u201d and here you are, you\u2019re the most decorated US Winter Olympian of all time. And I could see someone drawing the conclusion sounds like operating from a mindset of fear and inadequacy is a really good motivation. \u201cLook how it worked out for Apolo?\u201d What would you say to that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>I could say that, look, all the life experiences that we have, including the one that drove me. Yes, can they be used as levers to propel you towards a particular goal? Do people have chips on the shoulder, or anger, or rage, or sadness that put them into these positions where they go above and beyond what sports science typically thinks as possible and feasible? Yes, all that is true, but at what cost is my ultimate question. Luckily, I was able to recognize some of these things even while I was competing in the world of short track, in the world of the Olympic space. And also realizing and recognizing that, \u201cHey, life is a gift, and it is short, and there\u2019s these 86,400 seconds in a day that are gifted to us in this arena. And we probably lose most of those to a spiraled nature of negativity and self-doubt, but I don\u2019t have to.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

For those who are really listening to that voice of fear, know that you can still reach the level of performance that you\u2019re seeking, but it doesn\u2019t have to be from this other arena deep, deep inside. Now, when we\u2019re talking about extreme sport performance, I think it\u2019s a little bit outside the realm, but this book is not dedicated towards really those who are trying to go from silver medal to gold medal. This is really for those who are just looking at trying to have and live a life that is more fulfilling and wholesome. And a part of that process is self-acceptance. It is an understanding. It is an empathy, and the willingness to embrace change in ways that really fortify your position of aligning with your true north.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>I do want to talk just a little bit more about the immense pressure that Olympic athletes are under. You\u2019ve been very public about your support of gymnast Simone Biles, and how she honored her own mental health and well-being, even the face of quite a bit of public criticism. Can you talk more about that in terms of how we as a culture could support Olympic athletes in being whole and healthy people?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Absolutely. I think first and foremost recognizing what Simone did was actually the hard decision. The easy decision, the automated decision that many Olympic athletes go through is to just go and perform, to do the status quo regardless of how you feel. So, for her to take herself out of medal contention in the pinnacle of sports competition was hard and abrasive, and against the grain, and against the typical conditioning that perhaps many would\u2019ve liked to have exported upon her. Our beliefs of what an athlete should be and how they should operate regardless of how they feel.<\/span><\/p>\n

The beautiful thing about what has been happening in today\u2019s society and this progression towards acceptance, inclusivity, and openness to saying, \u201cMaybe what was was not the best path. Maybe there\u2019s a way to redefine what we would be as a champion. What we would term \u2018strong\u2019 and \u2018strength\u2019 and how we actually view leadership as a whole.\u201d I\u2019d like to believe, Tami, that we\u2019re entering into an era where you can be vulnerable, you can have empathy, you can show the humanistic qualities of just your life experiences, and you can still be strong, and you can still do the hard things in life. That\u2019s a beautiful thing. I think it shows that we\u2019re changing.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>I read, Apolo, that you received part of your great discipline from your relationship with your father. I\u2019d love to know more about out that. Describe your father to us and the gifts he gave you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>My father is my best friend, my mentor, my coach, my dad, all of the above. He has always sought to teach me in his own unique philosophical way of neither answering a question that I pose to him, and instead reaffirming an inquisitive question to myself to ask me how and which is the best way for me to come to a conclusion or decision about what I\u2019m actually seeking.<\/span><\/p>\n

My father taught me in a number of different ways, both through tough love and also through his own life lessons of how he was conditioned and brought up. He has showed me the power of the human spirit, showed me what work ethic was, and the relentless pursuit of excellence in all things. He also has inspired me in ways in which is not talked about, and his dedication to helping others. People who don\u2019t have a home. People who are on the streets. People who have been in very traumatic relationships, marriages, and he consoles them.<\/span><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s by nature of his being a\u2014my father cuts hair in downtown Seattle. I always joke and say that he\u2019s the resident psychologist without an actual degree, any qualifications. But because he\u2019s always listening to people and the challenges that they have, I think he\u2019s learned those skills around how best to at least provide some insights and the guidance. I think those things helped him raise me in ways that he just wanted me to be able to stand on my own two feet. My dad has a unique way of thinking about life and I think of thinking about performance. And he really showed me some incredible insights at a very early age.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Can you tell me more about the tough love, what that looked like?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Yes. So, to give an example, in 1997 I had been ranked the number one in the US. I went to the Olympic trials. I was favored to make the team. I finished dead last, in 16th place, at the bottom of the bracket. My father was upset that he thought that I was throwing away an opportunity. Rather than not making the team, he just saw that I was going through the motions and wasn\u2019t dedicated, and was not willing to do the hard stuff, especially when it had an uncertain outcome.<\/span><\/p>\n

My father picked me up and he drove me to this place in Copalis Beach, which is about three and a half hours Southwest of downtown Seattle, and drops me off at this cabin at the age of 15 and says, \u201cUntil you figure out what it is that you would like to do with your life, you are going to stay here for as long as it takes for you to have and make that decision and then commit yourself to that decision.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I think part of it was that my father felt like he wasn\u2019t getting through to me. I wasn\u2019t listening to anyone around me and that he needed to show some tough love. And you can imagine that\u2019s pretty harsh, right? 15 years old, all alone in this area where I always joke that there are no humans around there other than people who are part of the witness protection program. There\u2019s just literally no one in this area, and it\u2019s beautiful. I mean, I go back there now and it\u2019s just such an incredible place. But in reality, at the age of 15, all I want to do is be around my friends and play video games, and hang out. And now I\u2019m all alone, just me, the rain, nature and a decision that I need to come to.<\/span><\/p>\n

That was the first of many hard love and tough love decisions that my father had placed upon me. I\u2019m so grateful for that experience. I was really, truly grateful. And I came to the decision that I was going to continue to skate. I was going to continue on this path, and I was going to actually give it my all. But without that push, I don\u2019t think that my life would\u2019ve gone down this path.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Now, here\u2019s a quote from <\/span>Hard Pivot<\/span><\/i>. You write, \u201cIt was mostly my dedication to the mental and physical training that made me a great skater. Not because I was somehow inherently special it was because I did the work. I refused to let anyone outwork me.\u201d I think I pulled that quote because in reading about the training that you went through, I was like, \u201cHoly God, he was just a mega monster at training and the hard work.\u201d I thought that really does translate. You talked about the attributes that you\u2019ve taken on in your life. I\u2019m curious, do you think that hard work is something, that kind of attitude, that work ethic\u2014were you born with the drive like that, was it your relationship with your father? That\u2019s what I don\u2019t know. I work really hard, and I feel like it\u2019s somehow, it\u2019s almost native to me; it\u2019s just kind of how I am. But I\u2019m curious what your thoughts are about it.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Well, I think some people are perhaps born with an ability to stay focused on tasks for long periods of time. I definitely was not born that way. I suffered severely from ADHD. It was hard to keep my attention for more than five seconds in the classroom. But sports helped me curate that in a way where I channeled that energy and distraction to something that was laser focused. I believe the experiences that you have in life can greatly aid you in harnessing the power of that hard work and work ethic.<\/span><\/p>\n

We live in a society and a technology generation\/age where we get instant gratification often. And we are actually rewarded chemically by participating in the act of instantaneous interaction that eliminates this deeply unsatisfying, arduous growth path that seems so sluggish and long, right? Like the four-year journey, the eight-year journey to the Olympic games is not a sexy idea of going in circles and doing the same thing all day, every day, without anything else changing and no life, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

People say, \u201cThat\u2019s not a life I want to live.\u201d Instead, it\u2019s filled with the distractions and by the way, I\u2019m not faulting any company or any organization that says this, but we have turned into a celebratory, instantaneous, gratification community where we love to celebrate the overnight success that we failed to recognize took someone 10 years. It\u2019s easier to do that because that\u2019s what people want. I always say the work is the shortcut, the lowest hanging fruit\u2014the lowest common denominator for advantage today is to actually just be doing the work and doing it to the best of your ability because the last mile is not crowded.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s the least crowded. The reason why is because people don\u2019t want to stick to those goals, they want the results today, but I\u2019m not speaking like I am not one of those people\u2014being fully transparent here. I too suffer from those things, and I too have to correct myself and accept myself who I am in that present moment and then decide, I no longer am going to be used as a tool to mine data. Instead, I\u2019m going to use these technologies at my disposal to help propel me towards the goals that I would like.<\/span><\/p>\n

Without going down the rabbit hole, I think that there is an immense need for us to recalibrate and focus and to embrace that, look the journey and these detours and these doubts are all a part of this life experience. The faster that you can recognize that makes it so that that long arduous journey actually becomes a little more enjoyable and you can embrace those difficult times versus shying away from them in search of something that\u2019s much faster and easier to attain.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>You even write in <\/span>Hard Pivot<\/span><\/i> that your body wasn\u2019t ideally suited to short track skating. That you needed longer legs, a shorter torso, more height, and a leaner body composition in some ideal world. And the reason I think that got my attention was whatever we might think about are limitations or \u201clook at the hand I was dealt,\u201d we can overcome it. You overcame, I guess, that your legs aren\u2019t that long\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>No.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>\u2014right, Apolo? Relatively, yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>They\u2019re not, no.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>I wish they were.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Right. It\u2019s just interesting. We can overcome whatever we think are the limitations that we\u2019ve inherited. Okay. Now you talked about your father and your close relationship with him. And in <\/span>Hard Pivot<\/span><\/i>, there\u2019s a section on five people that you call your \u201cstarting five\u201d or your <\/span>
\n<\/span>life board of directors.\u201d There were a couple of sports psychologists included in this group, and I\u2019d love to know\u2014what were the key lessons you learned from the sports psychologists that are part of your inner circle?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Oh, wow. There\u2019ve been so many. I could write an entire manifesto on the life lessons that they\u2019ve given me. I think some of them are more simplistic in actual tactics and tools in how to mitigate stress and mitigate pressure, right? Breathing was a huge part of that and\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>What kind of breathing?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>So, my breathing typically results in some sort of breath holds so very simplistic. I don\u2019t know the actual name. And then you combine that with some form of meditative practice even if it\u2019s a moving meditative practice in the gym or walking, listening to music, something that allows you to somewhat get into that flow state, where you\u2019re not worrying about your emails, or your circumstance at the time. And that has always been something that\u2019s really, really powerful for me was to have that ability. And I was very grateful for that. Both David Creswell and Doug Jowdy gave me these really unique insights to say like, \u201cWow, you can\u2019t control every aspect of a result; you definitely can be your best in perfecting a process and learning how to be adaptable to the circumstances and situations that are thrown in your way.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>What would you say you learned about how to work with disempowering self-talk that maybe you experienced in athletics, and you could still apply those lessons now?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Self-talk can be really powerful and wonderful. And it also can be really detrimental, as we know, negative self-talk specifically. I think that one thing that David Creswell used to tell me when we were doing these extreme workouts was that he would say, \u201cActually, Apolo, don\u2019t try to block out the pain because it\u2019s impossible to. Instead, why don\u2019t you just acknowledge that this is a natural human condition and response to what is happening? Your body\u2019s searching for more oxygen, therefore it\u2019s producing lactic acid, it\u2019s under high duration stress, therefore, you\u2019re getting out of breath. And your natural response is to come up out of that natural body position that you\u2019ve been in for skating, and sit a little bit higher in nature, which creates more drag resistance and slows you down.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Or you can say to yourself, \u201cOkay, I acknowledge that. I don\u2019t have to accept it. I\u2019m going to stick with this.\u201d And almost like you\u2019re becoming an observer versus being controlled. And your mind works in the same way. You have this mind or this river of thoughts, so to speak, and you get these thousands of thoughts a day. Many of us sometimes allow one negative thought to distract us and hijack the attention of our entire day and change, and alter, and modify the mood that we are in because of one thing that one person said, or one circumstance in your entire 86,400 seconds of each day. Look, it\u2019s much easier to say than do, but to be able to have those experiences and then let them go and release them to allow them, like the river of thought, to continue and then move on to the next one and have that. To me, that\u2019s the ultimate power.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Now, I know since this hard pivot that you took at age 27, you\u2019ve been doing all kinds of things. You\u2019ve been working in businesses, and as a motivational speaker in all different kinds of contexts and as an author, how has that lesson that you just shared about not fixating on a negative thought that comes up, some maybe negative experience that happened. How has that served you in those arenas? And maybe you could share a story about that.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Well, those arenas, the negative sentiment, it\u2019s still here, right? It\u2019s still here today. And I think that\u2019s a part of my conditioning. I think I\u2019m much more aware than I\u2019ve ever been of the way that I both communicate to myself. Now fully recognizing that you can make a change. You can make a decision to say, \u201cWell, I don\u2019t have to listen to that voice anymore. I don\u2019t have to be that person who I once was. I can choose a different path.\u201d That\u2019s really in its most simplistic sense is how you do that. And so, walking into a room and feeling like you don\u2019t have the answers, and feeling like you\u2019ve got the imposter syndrome, that you don\u2019t belong there, that other people are smarter.<\/span><\/p>\n

Those things actually may be true, but you giving power to that thought is not going to help your course in any capacity. Instead, articulating and formulating a plan to say, \u201cWell, I may not have all the answers, but there\u2019s some real attributes here that I have that are unique to me. And I\u2019m going to harness the power of those and lean on those to help me in the direction that I actually want [to go] when I achieve these goals.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Now, back to your starting five, your life board of directors and the sports psychologists that are on your team. I\u2019m curious, did anyone teach you before you would begin a race that you should visualize the success, or is that just a myth that we have that, \u201cOh, that\u2019s what athletes are doing. They\u2019re visualizing this winning time,\u201d and etc.?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Well, visualization is very real. And the manifestation of that is very real. And it was a huge part of my training on a daily basis, was to visualize not only race scenarios and [that] variables change, but also to prepare myself to adapt in the event that something did not go my way. It\u2019s like running the race in practice before you ever actually run the race. So, it\u2019s the best. I highly recommend visualization.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>And how does that visualizing of the outcome\u2014how does that work for you now in your life?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>I guess I don\u2019t visualize so much on the outcome as I do on the process. The outcome is still there, and yes, I do visualize crossing that finish line, so to speak, metaphorically. But much more I focus on being able to have the right type of systems in place, and then actually executing upon those systems in ways that give me the happiness of progress. And that happens to be something I think is much easier and much more attainable than the overall outcome itself because a lot of times we just simply don\u2019t hit the outcome that we desire. But learning how to navigate through those processes are a really important part of that path.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>You share a lesson from your father: \u201cprocess over prize.\u201d I loved that. I thought that was a great takeaway from <\/span>Hard Pivot<\/span><\/i>\u2014process over prize.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Yeah, process over prize is something my dad has been telling me for a long time. The short track speed skating world is rife with the masterclass of stoicism. Oftentimes you are the best athlete in the world, but you simply don\u2019t win a race because of some circumstance or situation that is completely outside of your control, much like life. You feel like you\u2019re demanding that it should be yours and someone else\u2019s fault and all these things. That\u2019s your decision about how to perceive those circumstances.<\/span><\/p>\n

My father taught me very early to say like, \u201cLook, you don\u2019t ask to win, Apolo. You just can\u2019t continuously ask whether you\u2019re praying or whatever you\u2019re seeking. You can\u2019t ask to win. But ask for the strength and the desire to be your best self in every essence of what that means in your preparation, in making sure that you\u2019re safe.\u201d And so, yeah, when my father and I would pray together, he would never say, \u201cI pray for you to give Apolo the gold medal.\u201d He would never say that. Instead, he would say things like, \u201cI pray that Apolo can be his best, that he could do his absolute best.\u201d And that was pretty powerful. We did that for many, many years.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Your father came over to the US from Japan. What aspects of your Japanese heritage have been the most important to you?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Well, there\u2019s a lot. I think it\u2019s this dedication to one\u2019s craft and the beauty associated with really just committing yourself to this relentless pursuit of perfection, fully understanding that it\u2019s never going to actually happen. It\u2019s kind of interesting, right? It\u2019s like you\u2019ve decided to embark upon this impossible task of perfection that can only be done through experience and deciding that you will consistently remain committed to that path. That\u2019s just been something that I think that has been so beautiful, whether you watch someone who\u2019s preparing a Japanese tea ceremony or the way that they are making their goods. It\u2019s a beautiful thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>I love that. There\u2019s something, when I hear you say that a full dedication to one\u2019s craft, it\u2019s so inspiring. There\u2019s something in us that wants to be part of that kind of excellence.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>I think so. I think all of us are hungry. Not only to be our best self, but even at the things that we\u2019re doing, there\u2019s something that feels really, really good around making progress towards those things. And it can be the slightest of things. It can be staying on your diet. It can be remaining committed to a goal that you set for yourself. It can be relentlessly going back to polish a spoon that you are crafting in iron and forging it, whatever it is. I think that it\u2019s ingrained within all of us to want those things.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>You teach a bit about the Japanese principle of Ikigai, and I wonder if you can explain that.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Yes. Look, the one thing my father has done really, really well was not to\u2014my father is Japanese, obviously\u2014but not to rely so much on this belief that the Japanese way is the way and the only way, just like he said that the American way has many paths towards achievement and towards these things\u2014and Ikigai, which is really, really interesting. When we were writing the book, we were always looking for specific things that would fit into these so-called Venn diagrams.<\/span><\/p>\n

These Venn diagrams that give us this ability to have a bit of play, a bit of joy, a bit of hard work, a bit of natural talent, all mixed into kind of this one thing. My father showed his own version of Ikigai in many ways. And a part of my upbringing and growth was my father\u2019s desire to really showcase to me this beautiful combination of work ethic, mixed with purpose and the ability to\u2014when you look at this Ikigai actual diagram, you\u2019ve got these things: The profession that you have. What are you good at? What do you think the world is going to celebrate? What is your purpose? The things that you actually love to do, how you can get paid for those things? There are all these different elements. They\u2019re all-encompassing these centralized parts of these circles.<\/span><\/p>\n

The goal is to have this overlapping of these circles that are [\u2026] done in a way where you are at the center. And you\u2019ve got some purpose there that\u2019s driving you. You\u2019ve got some piece of that mission statement. You\u2019ve got a bit around of what you love and your passion. It happens to be a profession, your vocation, what you\u2019re paid for, what you\u2019re really good at, and then also what the world really needs.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so, I think it\u2019s hard, right? If we were going to talk about Ikigai in a way where we want to draw from the great Viktor Frankl around finding your purpose, it\u2019s tough. A lot of us in this world don\u2019t know what our purpose is and we\u2019re searching for it, flailing for it. We deeply want it. And I think when we can go through some of these things in a way that actually forces us to write them down, it starts to become a little bit clearer. That\u2019s the goal here of these types of diagrams is to really just figure out\u2014what it is that you really want in your life? What do you think is going to be the most important in this world? It\u2019s this interesting aspect of\u2014how do you find this perfect sweet spot that blends all these things that we talk about? Knowing that it\u2019s not going to be easy but blends them all in a way, that is your Ikigai, is finding your life purpose.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>And I just want to make sure this is crystal clear for our listeners, because it\u2019s so cool. And I didn\u2019t quite realize that our Ikigai is where these four circles come together, but you define it very clearly in <\/span>Hard Pivot <\/span><\/i>that one circle\u2019s what you\u2019re naturally good at. The other is what you love to do. And then the third circle is what the world needs right now. And then the fourth circle, which you say is optional, but if you\u2019re looking for your purpose to express itself professionally then include this fourth circle, which is what you can get paid for. And I\u2019m curious, having done this practice yourself, what do you think of when you say, \u201cOh, let me share with you my Ikigai where all four of these circles come together for me.\u201d Do you have a response to that, Apolo?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>I do. And a lot of them revolve around people because I love people. I love interacting with people. I feel like people in the world need more inspiration, more connection, more reminders of what\u2019s possible. I can be paid for that, whether it\u2019s in my role as an investment manager and seeking out great founders and helping coach them to be their best self, or it\u2019s talking like I was earlier today to a group of Delta executives and employees around their profession, and their passion, and perseverance, and resilience, and adaptation to uncertain environments.<\/span><\/p>\n

I do love doing that. I do feel like the world needs more of this. I am and can be paid for it. That makes it easier for me. And I feel like I\u2019m good at it because I actually enjoy it and I like it. Is it easy? No. Is it hard? Many times, yes. Other times when I don\u2019t want to do it and I\u2019d rather be doing something else? Of course. But I know that every time I do those things, I usually walk away smiling and I feel like, \u201cAha, this is it. This is why I\u2019m here. This is a part of the reason for this chapter.\u201d And here is what\u2019s really pushing me to move forward.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Okay. I\u2019m going to ask you a very strange question right now, Apolo. I feel like naturally, as I mentioned to you, I have this strong work ethic. And yet when it comes to actual physical exercise, it\u2019s not that easy for me. I do it, but it\u2019s not easy. It\u2019s hard for me to have the discipline. What would you say to someone who wants to have more discipline in some part of their life, where it just doesn\u2019t come easily to them?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Yes. So, I\u2019ve been thinking about this for 20 years, actually, and I\u2019ve always wondered why it was so easy for me to go to the gym and I just chalked it up too as my own discipline. And here\u2019s what I\u2019m telling you, Tami, it\u2019s not, because it\u2019s easy for me; it\u2019s actually not hard. Therefore, I\u2019m not exercising any real willpower there. I\u2019m just doing it because I enjoy it. Everyone is different. And what I\u2019ve realized is the best way for you to remain disciplined is to do two things.<\/span><\/p>\n

Number one, don\u2019t give yourself a chance to vote on whether you should or should not do something. Instead, it is something that is on your to-do-list. It is your task. It is, \u201cOkay, I just did step number three here. I just sent those whatever 45 emails, done. Now I\u2019m onto the next thing. Oh, okay. Go work out for 20 minutes. Great. I\u2019m going to go do that.\u201d Don\u2019t worry about what kind of shoes you\u2019re going to wear, what the environment\u2019s going to be, what you\u2019re going to do, just go do it. And you will find the more consistent you can make that into a habit, the less you will start to listen to the voice of reason to say why you shouldn\u2019t do it and why it\u2019s no longer an option.<\/span><\/p>\n

Discipline can come in the form of routine. That\u2019s always been my greatest attribute, is setting the routine in a way where, the day before, trying to identify with how you\u2019d like the next day to go, and then understanding fully of how you\u2019re going to fit in these schedules. And yes, things happen where it takes you out of that loop? Of course, but ideally, the simpler you can make it and the less decision making process you can have, the greater likelihood you will to remain committed to that decision. So, that discipline comes from within. And then also don\u2019t make it complicated for yourself, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

If you, like I, love pizza, and you know that you shouldn\u2019t be smashing a large pizza five days a week for dinner, then probably you should not have the pizza in the house. Probably you should have a set schedule of when you\u2019d like to eat and what you\u2019d like to eat beforehand. And that seems to be the greatest way. Because if you\u2019re consistently relying on willpower, it\u2019s tough. So, if it\u2019s really hard, yes, you have to do those things. And yes, you have to exercise that willpower, but at least provide the environment where you don\u2019t even have to exercise willpower. It\u2019s just merely a mechanism of action now, as a part of the routine that you set forth before yourself.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Wonderful. Apolo, in <\/span>Hard Pivot<\/span><\/i>, you write about something you call five golden principles. I feel like we\u2019ve done a good job of talking about one of them, the principle of grit. But I\u2019m going to let you introduce the other principles if that\u2019s okay. Maybe let\u2019s start with the number one principle: gratitude. And these are for adapting and thriving when you\u2019re under pressure, when you\u2019re facing uncertain time, here we go.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO:<\/b> Gratitude is one of those things that puts you in a present state that allows you to no longer have fear nor have anxiety you no longer want. You\u2019re just in its purest form. You\u2019re grateful for what you have right here, and right now for this breath, for this moment, for the challenges that you\u2019re facing. It\u2019s a really powerful thing. And it allows you to kind to zoom out for a second and realize that you\u2019re just still floating on this rock through space. That gratitude is very, very powerful. I highly recommend us being much more in tune with some type of gratitude practice.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Do you do gratitude practice as some kind of regular formal thing or is it more in the moment or both?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>I do, but I also tend to naturally be pretty grateful I think for the things that I have, and I am never short of any challenge that I am facing. And so, when I really zoom out, I\u2019m grateful for those challenges because I know in the long run they\u2019re going to fortify my life experience in a way that is going to be incredibly fruitful and insightful later.<\/span><\/p>\n

The second one is giving, and we often think of giving as to others, which I think is really important, but I also think it\u2019s giving ourselves the best possible chance of having success. And a part of that means no more self-sabotage, no more detrimental self-talk that doesn\u2019t fit the narrative of what you\u2019re really trying to accomplish. And giving is a part of that gratitude, but it\u2019s also deeply rewarding. Hard to explain if people who are listening have done any type of philanthropic or charitable work, or just being there for a friend, it\u2019s really deeply rewarding, and that is the human experience and connection. And so, don\u2019t shy away from that. Oftentimes the more we give is\u2014wow, we receive so much not only in terms of information and insight, but in terms of our own joy and feeling a semblance of purpose.<\/span><\/p>\n

We know what grit is. We go to those things. Gearing up is the fourth. So, setting your expectation, gearing up your expectation. It\u2019s really just setting the standard for yourself. And a part of this, the work that goes into it, is the shortcut mentality of\u2014you want change, you say that you want change. You want transition, you want transformation. Well, a part of that means that who you were yesterday is not going to be acceptable today. And a part of that divorce that you\u2019re going to have to do is setting the new expectation for yourself and it\u2019s going to be hard. It\u2019s going to be challenging because you\u2019re always going to want to go back to that original path, which is comfortable, and certain, and predictable. And a part of going into the unknown is setting something that you haven\u2019t done before. I know it\u2019s possible; it\u2019s how we approach sport all the time. We do things that we haven\u2019t done in the weight room, on the ice, in training. And a part of that is setting the goal, the standard, in which how we would like to conduct ourselves, from a routine perspective.<\/span><\/p>\n

The last one is getting into action. And a lot of this is deeply rooted in this belief that many of us suffer from this paralysis of perfectionism that exists. We don\u2019t want to release the presentation, or the company, or the thing until it\u2019s perfect. In reality it\u2019s never going to be perfect. We humans are not perfect, and we learn so much by doing. We just have to go out there and go do it. Get into action, test the thesis, test the waters; doesn\u2019t work, that\u2019s fine. Recalibrate and then go back out there again on the attack.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Now, we talked, Apolo, about the hard pivot that you made when you were 27 and you left skating. Have there been subsequent changes in your life that you would say, \u201cAnd I\u2019ve had some other hard pivots I\u2019ve had to do, too.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Absolutely. I\u2019m faced all the time with that. I think the most important hard pivot for me is to not remain committed to this belief that I\u2019m only a speed skater [and] that\u2019s all the interests that I have. I think I\u2019ve done a really good job of actually exploring the other natural curiosities that I have in life and allowing myself to be audacious and take the risk. To go out there and put myself out there in ways where I\u2019m not the expert. I don\u2019t have experience and just continuously trying to figure it out. That\u2019s my goal for people is to not be afraid of the outcome. It\u2019s much easier said than done, and not everyone is willing to take those types of risks or be an entrepreneur or whatever that might be. But I do think psychologically, there\u2019s something really powerful to buy into the fact that, \u201cHey, I\u2019m going to go do the hard stuff. I\u2019m going to do the stuff that I\u2019m not familiar with, and I\u2019m going to do the things that in the past have not come naturally to me.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>You write towards the end of <\/span>Hard Pivot<\/span><\/i>, \u201cI\u2019m not alone in thinking that the whole world today needs a type of hard pivot.\u201d Of course, many of us would agree when we look at the state of divisiveness in our society, the amount of ecological destruction we hear about. What\u2019s your view of the type of collective hard pivot we need to be making right now?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>You\u2019re right. We as humans, I think, we always make mistakes that are quite similar. And the hard pivot that I talk about in the book is really deeply rooted in this fundamental desire to do things that we think are just more aligned with what we believe to be the most important, not to be with what other people are doing because they believe, or society, or marketing, or the engine that is trying to hijack your attention for that period of time is telling you what is important because on the other side that is the consequence.<\/span><\/p>\n

What is the consequence that is the most valuable? It\u2019s time. It\u2019s time with the environment. It\u2019s time with our loved ones. It\u2019s time, as you just age as a person. You do have control over those things.<\/span><\/p>\n

My desire is to have the world driven by things I think that are much more\u2014call them purist\u2014in mind. We\u2019re always fighting against the human ego, but that\u2019s okay. Competition is okay, and I\u2019d love to just see a much more cohesive environment where we celebrate people who are doing the hard stuff versus people who are doing the things that\u2014I\u2019m not really sure why we\u2019re celebrating them.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>How would you say at this point in your life, for yourself, you define success\u2014not as the fastest man on ice but as Apolo Ohno today?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>Yes. Success to me, I think, is a combination of someone who loves what they\u2019re doing, is deeply entrenched in the obsessiveness in a healthy way with that path, and someone who gives back consistently with or without the media\u2019s attention. I think that\u2019s really, really powerful. I really commend people who\u2019ve decided to dedicate their lives, whether it\u2019s the spiritual path, whether it\u2019s towards helping other people. I think there\u2019s something really powerful there. And the more of us that can be a part of that movement collectively, I think the world starts moving in a better place, but we are at a crossroads and time is of essence.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>We cannot waste any more time. Whether that\u2019s someone who\u2019s deeply passionate around the environment that we live in, what we\u2019re doing to the planet, whether that\u2019s the way that we treat one another, the injustices that exist across the planet as a whole. We got to get it together, and it\u2019s actually quite simple. The hard part is the complexities that we put with ourselves, the borders that we have, the cultural differences, the colors that we see, our own conditioning of what we believe to be right and wrong, my belief of wanting to be associated with this particular movement or recognition of politics versus in others\u2014\u201dYou\u2019re not with me, you\u2019re against me.\u201d That\u2019s the hard stuff, and it requires you to quell and quiet that natural human ego that screams out to say, \u201cIf you don\u2019t agree with me, then you\u2019re the enemy.\u201d Instead, it says, \u201cMaybe I\u2019m missing something. Maybe I just don\u2019t get it. I\u2019d like to learn more.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>I\u2019ve been speaking with Apolo Ohno, brave and bighearted. He\u2019s the author of the new book <\/span>Hard Pivot: Embrace Change. Find Purpose. Show Up Fully.<\/span><\/i> Apolo, so great to have you here on <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>, and for Sounds True to publish your new book <\/span>Hard Pivot<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AO: <\/b>It\u2019s my absolute pleasure. Thank you so much, Tami.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Thanks for listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. You can read a full transcript of today\u2019s interview at resources2.soundstrue.com\/Podcast. That\u2019s resources2.soundstrue.com\/Podcast. If you\u2019re interested, hit the Subscribe button in your podcast app, and if you feel inspired, head to iTunes and leave <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> a review. I absolutely love getting your feedback and being connected. Sounds True: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-19428","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nHard Pivot - Transcript | Sounds True<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with Hard Pivot. 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