{"id":19470,"date":"2022-03-11T14:11:34","date_gmt":"2022-03-11T21:11:34","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=19470"},"modified":"2022-03-11T14:11:34","modified_gmt":"2022-03-11T21:11:34","slug":"waking-up-what-does-it-really-mean","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/waking-up-what-does-it-really-mean\/","title":{"rendered":"Waking Up: What Does It Really Mean?"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon: <\/b>Welcome to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>, produced by Sounds True. My name\u2019s Tami Simon. I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True. I\u2019d love to take a moment to introduce you to the new Sounds True Foundation. The Sounds True Foundation is dedicated to creating a wiser and kinder world by making transformational education widely available. We want everyone to have access to transformational tools such as mindfulness, emotional awareness, and self-compassion, regardless of financial, social, or physical challenges. The Sounds True Foundation is a nonprofit dedicated to providing these transformational tools to communities in need, including at-risk youth, prisoners, veterans and those in developing countries. If you\u2019d like to learn more or feel inspired to become a supporter, please visit SoundsTrueFoundation.org. You\u2019re listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. Today is a rebroadcast of one of my favorite episodes. I hope you enjoy.<\/span><\/p>\n

You\u2019re listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. Today, my guest is Adyashanti. Adyashanti\u2014or Adya, as his friends and students call him\u2014is an American-born spiritual teacher devoted to serving the awakening of all beings. He offers teachings that are free of any tradition or ideology. His teachings are an open invitation to stop, inquire, and recognize what is true and liberating at the core of all existence. Together with his wife, Mukti, Adya has founded the nonprofit organization, the Open Gate Sangha. His books and audio programs with Sounds True, include <\/span>The End of Your World: Uncensored Straight Talk on the Nature of Enlightenment<\/span><\/i> and <\/span>Falling into Grace<\/span><\/i>. With Sounds True Adya has also just launched a new digital subscription called <\/span>Adyashanti Weekly: Moments of Grace<\/span><\/i>. You can visit SoundsTrue.com for more information.<\/span> This episode of <\/span>Insights at the Edge <\/span><\/i>was originally broadcast as part of an online series called <\/span>Waking Up: What Does It Really Mean?<\/span><\/i> In this conversation, Adya and I spoke about how he defines spiritual awakening, his view of the age-old debate about whether or not awakening is sudden or gradual or both, what spiritual awakening does and doesn\u2019t deliver, and most importantly, his pith instructions on how to wake up. Here\u2019s my conversation with Adyashanti.<\/span><\/p>\n

Adya, it\u2019s great to be with you in-person for this conversation as part of our series <\/span>Waking Up: What Does It Really Mean?<\/span><\/i> Welcome.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Adyashanti: <\/b>Thank you, Tami.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS: <\/b>Such a treat to get to be with you face to face and do this. It\u2019s wonderful. OK. I\u2019m going to ask you the same first question that I\u2019m asking all participants in this series. When you hear the phrase \u201cspiritual awakening,\u201d what does that mean to you?<\/span><\/p>\n

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A: <\/b>OK. When I use the phrase \u201cspiritual awakening,\u201d I mean something very specific, that not that all awakening is the same or is the same depth. To me, to qualify as a spiritual awakening, it has to involve some type of revelation, which has the effect of shifting your identity, your sense of what you are, from a mind-based or ego-based identification, [\u2026] whether it\u2019s painful ego or exalted ego; but it shifts from an ego-based identity to an identity that\u2019s more based in our fundamental nature, whatever we want to call that fundamental nature\u2014good nature, spirit, consciousness\u2014something that\u2019s certainly transcendent of the mind and the ordinary identifications we have. I would also add a shift from an emotional identification too, because we tend to identify with a common emotional center as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS: <\/b>Tell me more what you mean by that.<\/span><\/p>\n

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A: <\/b>Well, I think everybody has an emotional sense that when they feel a particular way\u2014it\u2019s hard to define for each person\u2014but it\u2019s just how they emotionally and probably even energetically know they\u2019re here as a feeling-based or an emotional-based presence, not presence as such, but an emotionally feeling based presence.<\/span><\/p>\n

For instance, I mean this have to blow up the example. It\u2019s bigger than usual, but if someone has had a lot of depression in life\u2014and of course nobody likes to feel depressed\u2014but if you have an experience like that for a long enough period of time, at some deep level, usually below the conscious level, we begin to energetically and emotionally associate that feeling of depression with who we are. So that\u2019s an obvious example. It doesn\u2019t have to be negative, it could also be something really positive, like being a happy, bright person, cheery person, being a helper. A helper is not just an image-based identity, it also has an uplifting feeling-based identity too. To me, they always come as a package deal; our mental identity always has its energetic, somatic, egoic, emotional counterpart to it.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS:<\/b> Describe what you mean to me by this shift. There\u2019s some shift, that you\u2019re different after an awakening.<\/span><\/p>\n

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A: <\/b>Yes. This is where it gets a little bit more imprecise. I\u2019ll try to be as precise as I can because just when we shift out of the egoic identity, it doesn\u2019t mean everybody shifts into the same place. For instance, someone might have a shift where they realize that they are pure awareness. And they feel it in a sense; it\u2019s not just an intellectual thing. They see the world from that viewpoint now. That can be\u2014even though that wouldn\u2019t be a complete awakening in my view\u2014an awakening to a significant degree. It\u2019s very meaningful. It\u2019s very life-transforming, because you\u2019re looking at life then from an awareness point of view, rather than an egoic or a mind-based point of view. I would think that would be almost the minimum shift that I would even call a spiritual awakening. There can then shifts into a unity consciousness where you sense an underlying sameness between yourself and all the other forms of existence. That\u2019s an awakening as well. And there are other qualities too, but all of them involve a shifting of the locus of our own sense of being.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS: <\/b>I think for a lot of people, they experience the kinds of shifts you\u2019re talking about for moments. They might experience it while they\u2019re listening to you or reading one of your books, but it\u2019s not really a shift in how they live their life or even their ongoing experience of themselves. It\u2019s more a vacation, a trip that they take occasionally when they\u2019re reading a book by a powerful spiritual teacher. Is that an awakening? What\u2019s that?<\/span><\/p>\n

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A: <\/b>Sure. I think it\u2019s an awakening. It\u2019s a temporary awakening. Sometimes I\u2019ll call those a foretaste that you get. You get a taste of something, like you said, it\u2019s a vacation. We\u2019re in California. If we took a vacation to New York, if we just landed in New York, looked around for five minutes, got back on a plane and came back here, we still would have gone to New York. We would\u2019ve been there. We might not know much about New York at all. We don\u2019t know much about the terrain, but we know much more than we did before we took a flight there.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s very common for people to have these shifts that may be momentary, a few minutes, a few hours, a few days, a few weeks, that then seem to diminish to some extent or seem to disappear. Because they diminish doesn\u2019t mean that what you realized was untrue. It just means that it\u2019s still vacillating. That it wasn\u2019t deep enough or encompassing enough to become more of a stable ground from which you perceive and live from.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS: <\/b>What would you say to someone who has had that kind of vacation taste, but it\u2019s not their stabilized way of being? And what they feel is a sense of disappointment, grief, frustration. Talk to that person.<\/span><\/p>\n

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A: <\/b>Yes. It\u2019s so common. That experience is so, so common. And it does often leave a feeling of grief or disappointment in its wake. There are two things I often tell people, and they sound very contradictory, but I tend to view them as more paradoxical. The first one is I often try to help people see that what they saw, what they experienced when everything was clear at that moment, that there is still some of that with them now. It may be clouded over; it\u2019s definitely going to be much more subtle than it was before. Sometimes it\u2019s revelatory, it\u2019s just put in your face, you cannot possibly miss it. But then it recedes to something that\u2019s very soft, something that\u2019s easy to dismiss.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019ll try to point them towards\u2014often by asking them a series of questions\u2014something like \u201cCan you honestly tell me that everything that you saw, everything that you realized, that perspective, that all of it is completely gone now?\u201d And in almost every case, the person will tell me, \u201cWell, it\u2019s not all gone. It\u2019s not it was, though. That\u2019s what I want.\u201d I say, \u201cWell, let\u2019s come back. How is it presenting now?\u201d That\u2019s one thing I\u2019ll do and suggest that not trying to grasp that or hold onto it, but just abide with it. Just acknowledge that there\u2019s still the perfume of it. And that can be important and significant too, because what we acknowledge tends to grow in our experience, what we give a little attention to.<\/span><\/p>\n

The other thing I\u2019ll say, which is quite paradoxical, is also don\u2019t be grasping. Don\u2019t try to recreate that experience. That was the experience of that moment. Don\u2019t become attached to it. Don\u2019t think that now that\u2019s your reference point for your next experience of reality. It can be very difficult to let that go, because in essence, you\u2019re asking someone to let go of their experience of heaven, even if it was temporary. And it\u2019s like, \u201cReally? You\u2019re asking me to let go of heaven?\u201d Yes. Because there\u2019s a dynamic that\u2019s often at play here, which is, I always think of the first awakening as a gift. It often feels like that, like it just comes out of nowhere and you feel gifted. Somehow the universe gifted you with this. Then I call it a freebie because it doesn\u2019t really require anything. You don\u2019t earn it with merit, or it doesn\u2019t come because you\u2019ve mastered a certain technique. It can come at any point and any time. It\u2019s free in the sense that we don\u2019t have to earn or deserve it.<\/span><\/p>\n

But once that\u2019s happened, it\u2019s almost as if the game shifts and what was shown to you for free now in a certain sense, costs you everything to live with it. In other words, at the moment of revelation, it\u2019s almost like the letting go is done for you automatically. And then later, now that you\u2019ve seen the dimension of where that letting go can get you, but now you\u2019re asked in a way, now you have to begin. You have to let go consciously and willingly. It\u2019s not going to be done for you over and over and over again. It may visit you again where it\u2019s all done for you. But now you\u2019re being asked almost like re-traverse the terrain, that you almost leap over when this was all done for you. And now you\u2019re doing it consciously. And, of course, you\u2019re also having to encounter your resistances, the confusions, everything you transcended, in other words. Now you\u2019re working through your humanity, what you transcended.<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s what I mean. It costs you. Now you have to really participate. You play a very conscious role in walking back into what\u2019s already there as paradoxical as that may sound.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS: <\/b>Can you tell our listeners a bit about your experience of spiritual awakening?<\/span><\/p>\n

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A: <\/b>Sure. I mean, for me there were a couple of really significant moments. I\u2019ll just describe them as briefly as I can but try to give you all the important points. The first one happened after some years of real strident seeking, really trying to have a breakthrough, meditating a lot. Hours and hours and just really hyper-focused on it. I got to a point where I just felt completely defeated. I\u2019m sure many people listening to this have felt that at times. But I just felt, I remember I sat down once, and I was pushing myself so hard in meditation to cut through my thoughts and to just penetrate into something. I didn\u2019t even know what it is. But I sat down, and it all coalesced at one moment. I just said to myself, as I was sitting there just about to meditate, \u201cI just can\u2019t do this anymore. I just can\u2019t.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

At that moment it was like a nuclear explosion went off inside of me. It was actually violent. It was a very violent experience, in the sense that the energy I felt was just ripping me apart. My heart was beating extremely fast. I\u2019d been an athlete\u2014I know what a 200-beat-per-minute heartbeat feels like; I was very acquainted. And I was way, way, way past that. And I really felt like my heart\u2019s going to explode. I was feeling just ripped apart by this energy.<\/span><\/p>\n

A thought just came out of nowhere, in the midst of this chaotic, violent experience. Just a thought that \u201cif this is what it\u2019s going to take for me to be free, if I\u2019m going to die today, if I just let go to this, if it\u2019s going to \u2026\u201d \u2014because I literally thought I would die physically if I just let go, if I didn\u2019t run away\u2014and I just thought, \u201cI\u2019ve got to find out. I\u2019ve got to know what happens.\u201d And somehow something just let go. It was the simplest letting go. It wasn\u2019t courageous. It was just like I was actually willing to die at that moment. I just let go.<\/span><\/p>\n

In the snap of a finger, I was in a completely different dimension. There was no body, there was no mind, there was nothing to see, there was nothing to feel. There was literally nothing there. There was nothing there, there was no one there. It\u2019s nuts. That\u2019s probably as far as I wanted to describe because the more I describe, the more image it makes, and it was the complete absence of all that. And yet, somehow there was no fear. There was just a feeling of absolute freedom, absolute freedom. And all the questions I\u2019d struggled with, all the issues that I\u2019d had, I just felt, even though I couldn\u2019t feel my body at all, that somehow that these insights were flooding into me like 100 every second, so fast that I couldn\u2019t even record even a small fraction of them consciously. But they were like little lights going off or popcorn popping.<\/span><\/p>\n

At some point, it was happening so fast that I couldn\u2019t even register anything nearby. And it was just like something was literally being poured into me, like liquid insight, just poured in and poured in and poured in. It went on for I don\u2019t know how long; it was a very timeless experience. At some point I started to come back to my bodily awareness, and surprisingly my body was just sitting there in total calm. There was no energy left in it. There was no heartbeat that was out of control. Everything was totally fine, in a strange sense, absolutely ordinary.<\/span><\/p>\n

And after a while I was just sitting there. And I thought, \u201cOK, well.\u201d I got up and I always did, I bowed to my little Buddhist statue that I had in my little meditation hut in the backyard. As soon as I bowed, I just started laughing hysterically. It was this that seemed the most absurd thing that I\u2019d ever seen that this Buddha figure represented to me, in a symbolic way, everything that I\u2019d been chasing, everything that I\u2019d wanted. What is this Buddha nature? What is this divinity that this symbol represents? All of a sudden, when I bowed, somehow, I knew without any doubt that the thing I\u2019d been chasing was a thing that I am. That I was what I was chasing. And it just seemed like the most absurd, ridiculous joke that I\u2019d ever heard. And the joke was on me, and I didn\u2019t mind at all. And I just laughed and laughed of how ludicrous this was.<\/span><\/p>\n

In the days after that, in the weeks, I wasn\u2019t floating in any particular space. All the seeking energy was gone. I didn\u2019t feel driven in any way. That was really nice. There\u2019s no drive, because why be pursuing what I know I am? But something interesting happened right at the door of my little meditation hut when I was leaving, I opened the door and right as I opened the door, this little\u2014I call it the still, small voice; it always told me the truth. That still, small voice said to me, \u201cThis isn\u2019t the all of it. Keep going.\u201d And at that moment I felt so disappointed. Because a minute later I was just hysterically laughing at the absurdity of chasing this eternity and realizing that I was eternity. And now this voice is saying, \u201cThis isn\u2019t the all of it. Keep going.\u201d And I just felt like, \u201cOh, no. Can\u2019t be.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And then literally within a few seconds I realized that it wasn\u2019t discounting what I realized. Nothing said what I realized wasn\u2019t real or true. It was just telling me there\u2019s more to the picture. \u201cDon\u2019t fixate here. Don\u2019t stop here.\u201d Even though I had no seeking energy, no drive to attain, I knew that it was telling me the truth. I knew that there was more, a deeper clarification that was going to come that came about.<\/span><\/p>\n

It was a while later, probably six or seven years later when it was a totally different experience. They\u2019d always happen when I\u2019d first sit down to meditate, not even when I really got into meditation. One morning I sat down to meditate. I used to meditate early in the morning, a couple of periods of meditation before I would go see my teacher on Sunday mornings and meditate with her group and see her.<\/span><\/p>\n

I sat down to meditate, and again, just as soon as I sat down, there was a bird outside and I heard the bird. And again, up from my guts, not from my head, because I had never thought of this question or anything, up from my guts, this little question came up and I just said, \u201cWho hears this sound?\u201d And all of a sudden, the bird, the bird call, the sound and my hearing of the sound were all one event. Just one thing. There wasn\u2019t me sitting on the chair meditating, hearing a bird, there was just this one thing. And this was different than what happened before. That was like getting blasted into total emptiness before transcendence. This was, I was very much here. It was almost like that transcendent energy entered into human form, displayed itself as the world.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so once again, I sat there for a while, but the beauty of it, it was this pure experience. Even though now it\u2019s still emotional to me to describe it to you, as you can tell, but at that moment there was no emotion to it. There was no byproduct. There was no bliss. There was no expansion\u2014which was beautiful because there was nothing to get in the way of seeing what the truth of it was, to have the absolute perception with no experiential byproduct that I was going to try to hang on to later. It was just so pure and so simple and so immediate.<\/span><\/p>\n

I got up after a while, once again, and I did what I do because I\u2019m a very practical person by nature. I got up and I just wanted to see if\u2014I wanted to test it, actually. I started to look at the most inanimate things I could, the little tiny refrigerator that\u2014at that time, we lived in a 400-square-foot cottage where the refrigerator was two feet tall and I looked at the refrigerator and sure enough, the refrigerator and I were one and the perception of it was one happening. And I went all through the house and looking at that, I went into the bathroom, I literally looked at the toilet, because I was literally testing it. Can I find separation anywhere?<\/span><\/p>\n

I went in the bedroom, I opened the bedroom door, Mukti was still asleep (my wife); and sure enough, it was just like there I was sleeping. Yes. And then I started to get ready to go see my teacher. And the feeling though was after I went into the bedroom, and I came out in the little living room area getting ready, the fascinating thing was that everything I did, every step across the floor, I felt like I\u2019d just been born. Like something opened its eyes that had never been here. That\u2019s what it felt like. I\u2019m not saying that that\u2019s what happened. That\u2019s a way of describing the experience. Like something was here for the very first time and everything was for the first time. And yet it was wonderfully ordinary. Just ordinary. There were no fireworks. And I went off and went to see my teacher and went about the day.<\/span><\/p>\n

I didn\u2019t even bother to mention it to her for two or three months because it was so sufficient. I didn\u2019t need acknowledgement. I didn\u2019t need it to such an extent that it never even occurred to me to tell it to her. Until after about two or three months later, I thought, \u201cOh, it would be kind. It would be proper that this thing that she had tried to point me to over all these years, that I would tell her about it.\u201d And that was the only impetus. And so, I shared it with her and then went on about my day and it never\u2014I mean, of course, as revelation goes, it\u2019s never left me. It doesn\u2019t have that, \u201cWow, for the first time, I\u2019ve never seen this,\u201d feeling to it. Because now I\u2019ve existing within that for 20 years or something now. It\u2019s become more ordinary.<\/span><\/p>\n

But, as you can see, when I describe it\u2019s still of deep significance, and it\u2019s still always with me. And I\u2019m often struck at many odd moments that I\u2019ll feel like the first time for something, the first time of walking somewhere or I\u2019ll be drinking and all of a sudden, it\u2019s like I\u2019ve never drunk. It\u2019s just for the first time. But it\u2019s not like it didn\u2019t have the me going, \u201cOoh, wow. The first time. Isn\u2019t this fantastic? Isn\u2019t this great?\u201d It\u2019s all there was. There wasn\u2019t a reflecting on it. It\u2019s all there was.<\/span><\/p>\n

Those are two moments. The last is very brief, that a year to the day, to the very day\u2014which I always thought was the strange ways that life weaves together. Mukti is my wife, and she comes from an Irish family. They have Irish roots in Ireland. And I had this awakening I just described on St. Patrick\u2019s Day. A year to the day after that, on St. Patrick\u2019s Day, which never held a great significance to me (I didn\u2019t even know it was St. Patrick\u2019s Day until later, in retrospect), but a year to the day, the last thing was, I\u2019m just sitting on the couch one day, reading a book, and just being done reading I put the book down, and I stood up from the couch, and it was like I left something behind. I didn\u2019t know what it was. It was simple. I was just like, \u201cI left something behind.\u201d Just like that. I thought, \u201cWhat did I leave behind on the couch?\u201d I got up and something didn\u2019t get up with me. Something had kind of been with me. And later that day or that night\u2014I didn\u2019t even think about it much after that; it was a curiosity. But that night I was getting ready for bed. I sat down on the edge of the bed and all of a sudden it struck me, \u201cOh, I lost myself.\u201d And it was just the simplest recognition. Again, no fanfare. But just, \u201cOh.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, the way I describe that when someone asks me about it, like \u201cWhat was that like?\u201d\u2014I think the most concrete way I can put it is that I lost my inner life. You know that life where you process through things and the narrative that\u2019s talking to itself about everything. I don\u2019t mean to say that there\u2019s never a thought that flows through my head, but it\u2019s not of a narrative quality, that I\u2019ve lost any kind of mental processing thing just disappeared. It just is gone. There\u2019s a different way of experiencing almost everything.<\/span><\/p>\n

Those are significant moments. There are significant moments. But to me, it\u2019s not just about the significant moments. Then there are specific, discreet moments. And then there\u2019s also what I think of as, here I am 20 years later or more, and there\u2019s still an awakening\u2014it\u2019s the verb of awakening\u2014that\u2019s continued. That there just seems to be just an ever-deepening clarification of what was realized in those moments and an ever-deepening capacity and ability to embody it in my humanity, which seems to, I don\u2019t see an end to that capacity to embody. And I\u2019m always noticing that \u201cOh, yeah, there\u2019s a new way to embody. There\u2019s a more precise way or a way that feels more integral or more whole.\u201d So, there\u2019s awakening as a verb too that\u2019s continuous. And for me, it keeps a humility there, because whatever might have thought was all in inclusive last week, I realized, at some point, \u201cOh, there\u2019s another way to look at the same thing.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS: <\/b>You\u2019ve been listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. When life drastically changes, whether by choice or circumstance, often the hardest part is letting go of what was familiar and stable. With <\/span>Hard Pivot<\/span><\/i>, Olympic speed-skating champion Apolo Anton Ohno shares his five golden principles for letting go of the past so that we can reinvent ourselves and live with creativity and purpose. You can explore the book, free teachings, and more at hardpivot.com. And now back to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

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You mentioned that with this third instance, the losing of yourself, that you started experiencing the world in yet a different way. I\u2019m curious what that different way is.<\/span><\/p>\n

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A: <\/b>Well, it was experiencing world. It wasn\u2019t necessarily a perceptual shift like the last two I said. In both of those other experiences, I had transcended self. In the first experience I described I transcended ego and self, and the second one I was also a transcended self; but I came to see that to transcend self, which when you do that you know that certainly ego is a useful and mostly useless fiction. You know that. But when we transcend something, it\u2019s not the same as it\u2019s falling away. That\u2019s what I realized, is when it fell away, what fell away was (this another way to speak about it) was the self-referencing turn or arc of consciousness that tends to reference all\u2014usually what it\u2019s referencing is ego, is the image, the idea, the story, the process.<\/span><\/p>\n

When the ego\u2019s not really a big part of what\u2019s happening inside, it\u2019s like this turn of consciousness is orienting back towards itself. It could be quietness. It could be peace. It could be a whole host of nice experiences or not so nice experiences, but there\u2019s this turning inward. I don\u2019t really know. It\u2019s like consciousness doing a U-turn or something. And then somewhere along the line, the U-turn just stops. And it stops because there\u2019s really nothing there for it to look at. There\u2019s no process going on. There\u2019s just nothing there. How long would you look into an empty room? At some point you would turn around and just go somewhere else. And that\u2019s what happened on that one day on the couch is something just stopped looking into an empty room. It just turned around.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s not a perceptual shift. For quite a while, it was an oddity. I would even say to myself, \u201cIt\u2019s strange. There\u2019s no process. There\u2019s no process going on.\u201d Not that I can\u2019t use say deductive logic or things like that, but I mean, no emotional process. There\u2019s no working something out because there\u2019s nothing there to do it, which doesn\u2019t mean that I\u2019m emotionally perfect or I don\u2019t mean to project ideas like that, but it\u2019s like the understandings just come of themselves. So, I can just pose a question and the question\u2014I don\u2019t even work with it. I wouldn\u2019t even be able to work with it anymore. If I have a question, it\u2019s just there. And then at some point, an insight that\u2019s a resolution of the question just comes up and there\u2019s no at least discernible process; perhaps in the unconscious level there is, but consciously it\u2019s just life without a process.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS: <\/b>Now, Adya, here in this conversation, when you were talking about these awakening moments, markers, turning points in your life, you actually were quite moved, emotionally moved. I mean, I\u2019m here with you so I can see it in your face, hear it in your voice. What\u2019s going on for you that you\u2019ve had this emotional feeling?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

A: <\/b>That\u2019s actually a really good question, Tami, because I don\u2019t actually know. And the reason I say that is because, I don\u2019t talk about this stuff a lot, but I do share it when I think it\u2019s useful. And in the early days, shortly after this stuff, it would create an emotion, because there was a poignancy and significance. It\u2019s like the deepest jewel you have you\u2019re sharing with somebody. And it\u2019s more meaningful to you than you could ever describe. But for years, for the better the better part of 10 or 15 years, I haven\u2019t really gotten emotional when I\u2019ve described it. So, it was as much a surprise to me as it is to you or to anybody else. I don\u2019t know why I felt that, but the poignancy of it is what I was really experiencing.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think, I just felt how valuable it is to me, how valuable. Not the past, but how it\u2019s living now that it\u2019s almost like maybe it has to do with age also. It\u2019s almost like feeling like the older you get, you realize the gifts that you\u2019ve been given and you appreciate them. It\u2019s a different time of life, I\u2019m 52 instead of 32. Maybe that sums it too, that I really appreciate some of what\u2019s occurred for me, and I think I\u2019m also humbled by it. And I don\u2019t mean that like in a I\u2019m humble sense, but I just mean, I think I\u2019m definitely, I\u2019m completely at peace now with my humanity, where I didn\u2019t struggle with my humanity after these things, but I don\u2019t know, now I feel that these kinds of experiences can make you feel\u2014it\u2019s going to be another paradox\u2014strangely at one with but in another sense apart. Because experiencing or perceiving something that a lot of people around you aren\u2019t, so whenever you experience anything, there\u2019s an apartness, a little bit of an apartness to it.<\/span><\/p>\n

But now, that\u2019s part of this ongoing awakening, verb, and maturing really, is I think of what it is. That I\u2019m just very comfortable with the entire experience of existing and the human experience. And I think poignancy and appreciation is something about our limited humanness that fills those emotions. And perhaps because I\u2019m even more and more and more comfortable and appreciative of the humanity with all of its frailty and all the rest, perhaps that\u2019s a reason. It just feels like that. I\u2019m trying to give words to something that\u2019s hard to describe, because like I said, I haven\u2019t felt emotional like that about it for quite a long time. I certainly don\u2019t mind it.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>I think most people\u2019s experience is that awakening is a gradual process for them, perhaps small punctuated moments, but not the kind of story that you share for yourself, the depth, nuclear explosion. I mean, I think that\u2019s rarer. And one of the things I\u2019m curious about is do you think that people can actually reach a depth of knowing? A depth of awareness of being, however you want to put that. This shift in identity through a gradual approach. Or do you think really, come on at some point there has to be some big dramatic event?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

A: <\/b>That\u2019s a good question. I appreciate that. I\u2019ll answer as honestly as I can, which is the reason that I\u2019m reflecting. The reason for the moment to reflect is because, boy, one of the things that really stands out in my experience these days is how paradoxical truth is. It\u2019s not paradoxical in experience, but it\u2019s paradoxical as soon as I even think about it to myself, much less describe it. What I mean by that is yes, I\u2019ve seen people that have had quite gradual awakenings where things are realized in retrospect, where there\u2019s been some real change and I don\u2019t mean just ordinary psychological change, but a real fundamental change of how they perceive life, that they just slide into. And a day comes when they go, \u201cOh, yeah. Yeah.\u201d It\u2019s like they recognize it, but they can\u2019t tell you when.<\/span><\/p>\n

Having said that, [\u2026] I can\u2019t imagine any awakening that at some point there weren\u2019t these moments of recognition, not necessarily mind-bending experiences, but just recognitions where you really do realize unequivocally that you really are perceiving differently than you did. If you never know that you\u2019re perceiving differently than you did, then\u2014one of the hallmarks of a real shift, is there\u2019s a consciousness about what\u2019s happening. So, in the middle. I think there will always be moments of recognition.<\/span><\/p>\n

But when I look back, the reason, I think, in large part that the first opening was so explosive, even violent, it was very much connected with how difficult I was pushing. I was like a bottle of carbonated liquid that just had been shaken up for five years violently and then the top got taken off of it. And there\u2019s going to be a violent eruption of that energy. It\u2019s like it\u2019s all going to explode at one point. I think I was almost, without knowing it, creating and storing this psychic tension that released. That\u2019s why later, years later, when I had the other awakening it wasn\u2019t violent at all, it wasn\u2019t explosive. It was revelatory, but there was no explosive quality. It\u2019s because I wasn\u2019t pushing. I wasn\u2019t striving. There was no buildup of psychic tension that had been happening.<\/span><\/p>\n

Some people are just hooked up to where striving in the way I was striving. It\u2019s not part of their makeup. They can have the same interest, but they go about it in a different way. And they\u2019re probably not going to experience these almost volatile-sounding shifts. They\u2019re going to happen more gently. Since I\u2019ve been teaching and I\u2019ve watched people have different awakenings, usually when it\u2019s really explosive, there has been a buildup of psychic tension either through their own seeking or through their psychology where they\u2019ve been carrying a tremendous amount of pain or something that\u2019s created a deep psychic tension. They\u2019re the ones that tend to have these explosive awakenings. The people that, for whatever reason, are not hooked up to carry a lot of psychic tension, theirs are much more a bit more like a flower opening. It may open quickly. It may open a little slowly, but there\u2019s a gentleness and an ease to it.<\/span><\/p>\n

I often tell people now I know I can\u2019t alter people\u2019s course any more than my teacher can convince me not to strive of I was striving, but I certainly don\u2019t try to encourage a pursuit that builds up a great psychic tension. Because number one, it\u2019s not ultimately necessary. It may be necessary for a particular person like it to me, but ultimately, it\u2019s not necessary. And it\u2019s not always wise. It\u2019s not always wise. It takes an ordinary human groundedness to be able to experience those things without you coming out of it feeling very ungrounded or extremely disoriented, even though it was a wild experience. I mean, 10 minutes later, I did not feel ungrounded at all. And that\u2019s because I was just a pretty grounded person going in. But if you\u2019re not, then I really try to get people, don\u2019t push really hard if you\u2019re already all tight up inside because it may not be the best thing for you. You may get more ungrounded than you\u2019re ready for.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>OK. Just two final questions for you here, Adya. I\u2019ve met people who I think have had some level of a spiritual awakening, but they still seem quite challenged in parts of their life. Maybe it\u2019s their relationship life or their ability to function well in organizational life, which is relationship life, something like that. And I\u2019m curious to know, what do you think awakening does and doesn\u2019t deliver in a person\u2019s life?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

A: <\/b>Oh, that\u2019s another good question. Well, when it\u2019s authentic, does it deliver those profound perceptual shifts? That\u2019s not real accurate, but I think it gets the point across there, is these profound perceptual shifts. That\u2019s the hallmark of it. But I think one of the things that can be disappointing to people, and I call it the selling pitch for enlightenment, which isn\u2019t really all true, is that these profound experiences or even all the way up to a fair degree of enlightenment, it doesn\u2019t mean that it solves all your problems for you. It doesn\u2019t mean you necessarily have all your emotional baggage together. It does not mean that you know how to be in a relationship well, romantic, friendship, business any more than having this big spiritual shift makes you suddenly capable of understanding theoretical physics.<\/span><\/p>\n

As I see it, there are different lines of development with us. There\u2019s a relational intelligence. There\u2019s an emotional intelligence and maturity. There\u2019s a spiritual intelligence and maturity and they\u2019re all interconnected, but they\u2019re interconnected, but not the same. Just like everything\u2019s actually one, but I am also still a distinct individual. It\u2019s not one or the other. Oneness doesn\u2019t cancel. So even in spirituality, it\u2019s a part of who we are, of what we are, but when your perception changes, you often have deep, emotional change also. You\u2019re less attached and all that stuff. And the possibility to be able to relate better, or to be able to have your emotional baggage handled with much more ease or resolution. The possibility\u2019s there, but it in no way is anywhere but a guarantee. Most everyone will, even with really powerful shifts, they\u2019ll have to at some point own up to what\u2019s left of their confusion of their emotional confusion or conflict or dysfunction, their relational dysfunction.<\/span><\/p>\n

We could talk for a long time of the things that other parts of myself that matured, over many years, and I\u2019m sure or I hope are still maturing and will mature until my lifespan is over on a human level, as well as a spiritual level.<\/span><\/p>\n

I think that\u2019s part of the honesty. These awakening experiences, they do not bestow perfection on anybody. They do not necessarily make you instantly easy to get along with, but they do give you a groundwork from which it is easier and more advantageous to address whatever conflict may still be there, but you still got to own up to it. And you got to be honest, and you got to step to the plate. Because sometimes people just try to cop out and go, \u201cWell, I\u2019ve had this shift and it really doesn\u2019t matter. I\u2019m not my ego. I\u2019m not my mind, I\u2019m this, I\u2019m pure spirit. And so, it doesn\u2019t matter.\u201d Number one, that\u2019s a profound state of duality. It may be a significant realization, but it\u2019s nowhere near complete. And it\u2019s also, it\u2019s dripping with ego hiding out in a transcendent place, not wanting to deal with anything, not wanting to step up and take responsibility.<\/span><\/p>\n

We also can deceive ourselves and we can use our awakening to deceive ourselves. That\u2019s why I always say to anybody that, \u201cYour real great guide is your capacity and willingness to us to have great honesty with yourself so that when you do hide, you\u2019ll catch onto it and you\u2019ll own up to it.\u201d Because that\u2019s why I always say we have a human component to us, and we\u2019ve got to become comfortable with that human component.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>My final question, Adya. I mean, I know all of your teaching work in a way is about awakening, but here I\u2019m going to ask you for your pith instructions, just the pith for our listeners who are interested in waking up. What\u2019s the pith?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

A: <\/b>Oh, well now you\u2019ve put me on the point, haven\u2019t you? Thank you. I don\u2019t mind it at all. OK. Here\u2019s the pith instruction. Since, as I see it and as I work with it, awakening has to do, at least initially and for quite a long time, with our identity, our true identity, first know that\u2019s what it\u2019s about. That\u2019s the bullseye that you aim at. And you look at whatever the identity, your identity is and it\u2019s that identity you\u2019re calling into question. That\u2019s what it\u2019s all about. It\u2019s not about whether your consciousness expanded, how you feel, what you experience, if you see lights or angels or visions, it\u2019s all about moving your base point of identity.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so one of the most simple\u2014well, let me give you the most simple. This is oversimplified, but I think it\u2019s very useful. Something that anybody listening can take with them: a question that you just ask yourself, without answering the question. Never answer the question but ask it and see what it elicits in your experience. You have your eyes open. What is it that\u2019s looking through my eyes? What is it? And just endeavor to sense into that and to feel into that, not define it. \u201cWhat is it that\u2019s looking through my eyes? What is the experience of that? What is that?\u201d Just something that simple. If your eyes are closed, if you\u2019re meditating, \u201cWhat\u2019s noticing this thought? What\u2019s noticing these feelings. What is that?\u201d And don\u2019t answer it. Just let the question evoke whatever it\u2019s going to evoke and just stick with it.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Thank you for <\/span>Insights at the Edge <\/span><\/i>at the edge. You can read a full transcript of today\u2019s interview at SoundsTrue.com\/Podcast. If you\u2019re interested, hit the Subscribe button in your podcast app. Also, if you feel inspired, head to iTunes and leave <\/span>Insights at the Edge <\/span><\/i>a review. I love getting your feedback, being in connection with you and learning how we can continue to evolve and improve our program. Working together, I believe we can create a kinder and wiser world. SoundsTrue.com: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-19470","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nWaking Up What Does It Really Mean - Transcript | Sounds True<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with Waking Up What Does It Really Mean. 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