{"id":19738,"date":"2022-09-09T13:44:54","date_gmt":"2022-09-09T19:44:54","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=19738"},"modified":"2022-09-09T13:44:54","modified_gmt":"2022-09-09T19:44:54","slug":"last-rites-wisdom-from-a-fourth-generation-undertaker","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/last-rites-wisdom-from-a-fourth-generation-undertaker\/","title":{"rendered":"Last Rites: Wisdom from a Fourth-Generation Undertaker"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon:<\/b> Welcome to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> produced by Sounds True. My name\u2019s Tami Simon. I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True. And I\u2019d love to take a moment to introduce you to the Sounds True Foundation. The goal of the Sounds True Foundation is to provide access and eliminate financial barriers to transformational education and resources such as teachings and trainings on mindfulness, emotional awareness, and self-compassion. If you\u2019d like to learn more and join with us in our efforts, please visit soundstruefoundation.org.<\/span><\/p>\n

In this episode of <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>, my guest is Todd Harra. Todd has over a decade of experience as a licensed funeral director and embalmer, and he\u2019s a certified post-mortem reconstructionist and cremationist. Todd has written two nonfiction books about the profession, <\/span>Mortuary Confidential<\/span><\/i> and <\/span>Over Our Dead Bodies<\/span><\/i>. And he\u2019s also an associate editor for <\/span>Southern Calls<\/span><\/i>, a renowned journal in the funeral profession.<\/span><\/p>\n

With Sounds True, Todd has written a new book and it\u2019s called <\/span>Last Rites: The Evolution of the American Funeral<\/span><\/i>. Quite honestly, I\u2019ve never spoken before with a funeral director, and quite honestly, I\u2019ve never even been inside a funeral home. So talking to Todd was a whole lot of new for me: new information, new insights, and new understandings about right now, where we are in the evolution of the funeral business and how we can make the experience of dealing with our dead something that we talk about, that\u2019s aboveboard, that\u2019s not taboo, and that\u2019s treated as holy, as sacred, which it is. Here\u2019s my conversation with Todd Harra.<\/span><\/p>\n

Todd, I know you\u2019re a fourth-generation undertaker. Tell me a little bit, and by way of introducing yourself to our listeners, what is the family lineage of being in the funeral business that you come from?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Todd Harra:<\/b> Well, first off, Tami, thank you for having me on your show. And my family lineage in the profession goes back to before the Civil War, with a few stops and starts along the way. A lot of funeral directors have this kind of direct family tree: father to son, father to son, as it was for so many years prior to women becoming the predominant population in mortuary school classes.<\/span><\/p>\n

But my great-great-great-grandfather was James White. He was a cabinetmaker in Milford, Delaware, and as such the townspeople would call on him when there was a death in the family and they would bring him a piece of knotted string for the measurements of the decedent who would\u2019ve been laid out, washed, and anointed at home. And James would construct a custom-built coffin in his shop. And just by the nature of his vocation, he became the town\u2019s undertaker. And this was quite common.<\/span><\/p>\n

These folks, carpenters, joiners, upholders, chandlers, just by nature of what they did for a living, were often the town\u2019s undertakers. James\u2019s son, Isaac, he fought in the Civil War and right around that time, embalming came to be a common practice. And Isaac picked up the skill of embalming and became a very successful undertaker, taking the mantle from his father and running with it.<\/span><\/p>\n

And when he died in, I want to say it was 1917, his obituary has a line in it that sticks with me and it says, \u201cHe lived and died without a known enemy.\u201d Now, there was a break after this of several generations. Isaac and his wife, Rachel, had one daughter. And Isaac told his daughter, who would be my great-grandmother, \u201cThis business is no place for a woman,\u201d which is just absolutely laughable in this day and age with every single graduating mortuary class is well over 50 percent, closer to 75 percent, female. So females are the future of our profession.<\/span><\/p>\n

But anyway, Isaac told his daughter, \u201cYou can\u2019t go into the profession.\u201d And the family business changed hands several times. It\u2019s still in existence in Milford as a different name, but our original family business still exists. Now my uncle, he got into the profession in the mid-70s and he now owns the firm that I work for.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, specifically, Todd, why were you drawn? I want to keep this tradition alive. I want to work with my uncle. You could have done other things, of course. Why did you choose this?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> Honestly, I think the profession chose me. I had no intention, no designs of going into this. I see, with a lot of people in the profession, they\u2019re almost pressured by their family to continue this mantle in the town, continue the family legacy. There\u2019s no such pressure. My parents are not associated with funeral directing, the funeral profession at all.<\/span><\/p>\n

And honestly, I thought I wanted to go into some type of medicine. And the summer after college, I needed a job and just asked my uncle, \u201cHey, can I work part-time at the funeral home doing some odd jobs?\u201d So I started doing what a lot of people do, washing the cars, just holding the door at services, kind of very unskilled labor, but still needs to be done, running the vacuum cleaner, stuff like that. And really, I think the work found me.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Okay, but tell me more about that. I get how you started doing it, but what was that spark that went off in you that said, \u201cI think this is actually my path?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> It\u2019s such a helping profession, just watching the men and women in our profession who stand there. And really we stand with families and bear witness to their grief. And that\u2019s the main thing that we\u2019re doing. We\u2019re walking with them in their grief journey. And families will come in after the first call is made and they\u2019ll come in to make the funeral arrangements. And there\u2019s so much uncertainty and anxiety. I wouldn\u2019t say fear is a good word, but fear of the unknown. And we sit down and we talk about what we need to do to get them and their loved one, their dead loved one, to where they need to be. And when they leave that funeral arrangement, usually their relief is palpable and I formed some friendships with people.<\/span><\/p>\n

They come in and it\u2019s a new case or an intake that\u2019s assigned to me. I don\u2019t know these people from Adam. And by the end of the process, whether their loved one is buried or burned, and by burned I mean cremated, we become friends. We\u2019ve connected. It\u2019s a very intimate experience. And standing there as a young man, just out of college, washing cars\u2014I think what initially maybe drew me towards the idea of medicine was that it\u2019s a helping profession. And that\u2019s what I liked about it. And not necessarily the medicine, but the idea of helping people. And this is what we do in the funeral profession. We\u2019re helping people start that grief journey.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I mentioned to you, Todd, when we were just introducing ourselves before we started recording that I\u2019ve never spoken to a funeral director before. And I noticed that the stereotype that\u2019s now part of the culture of somebody marking up the casket and trying to talk you into a higher price or something like that. I had bought into that myself a bit. And talking to you, I can see the holy work, the therapeutic work, the healing work of someone in your role. And it seems like it\u2019s one of those professions that needs to be, if you will, almost rebranded in the culture or understood better at least. Wondering what you think about that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> That\u2019s, people like myself, that\u2019s what I\u2019m trying to do. There\u2019s a number of podcasts by funeral service professionals, young men and women that were out there trying to evangelize what we\u2019re doing, because funeral service is not necessarily what you or I and our parents and our grandparents think of as kind of the traditional funeral service where you must do that or you must do this.<\/span><\/p>\n

And back in 1963, when Jessica Mitford published her scathing expos\u00e9 of our profession, kind of painting us with this broad brush that we\u2019re all these money-grubbing shyster undertakers. And that\u2019s unfair in the way that\u2014I think every profession has bad actors in it. And are there bad actors in the funeral profession? Absolutely. Just the same as there are bad police officers and bad doctors and bad lawyers, but to paint us all with that same brush is really unfair.<\/span><\/p>\n

And the funeral profession was, I don\u2019t want to say largely silent, but their response to what she published wasn\u2019t effective enough. They should have started doing this rebranding 50 years ago, because most of us get into this profession to help people.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I\u2019m not going to sit here and tell you it\u2019s not a business, because it absolutely also is a business. Just like a doctor\u2019s office has a practice. He\u2019s got to make money to stay in business. So people say, \u201cWell, you mark up the casket.\u201d Of course we do, but we try to do it in a reasonably fair way so we can make money and stay in business and continue to serve our community. But we\u2019re also the ones who are putting our employees in your local Rotary clubs and your local Kiwanis clubs and sponsoring your Little League teams and sponsoring your church dinners.<\/span><\/p>\n

So that money just isn\u2019t going into this stockholder\u2019s pocket, if you will. Your typical local funeral home is very invested in the community and they\u2019re going to put that money back into the community in positive ways.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, Todd, I want to talk to you about the theme of your new book, <\/span>Last Rites<\/span><\/i>, and we\u2019ll be talking about the evolution of the American funeral. And I also want to talk to you about funeral rites in general, historically and into the future.<\/span><\/p>\n

But before we get there, I want to know how being in this profession has changed you, as in\u2014let\u2019s start with spending so much time, because you\u2019re also certified and have been trained as an embalmer and a postmortem reconstructionist. You spend a lot of time, at least this is my assumption, with dead bodies. Probably more than most of us. I\u2019ve spent a few hours, I\u2019ve been at two deaths and have had the privilege and honor of being at those deaths and being with the corpse, but not for very much time.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And I was reflecting, what would it be like to have spent a lot of time with corpses and how would that impact my psyche and my view of life? So what\u2019s your response to that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> There\u2019s something very sacred of a family entrusting you, turning over, really, their most precious possession into your hands. You think about it. We, the undertaker, show up at somebody\u2019s house, a lot of times in the middle of the night, and we\u2019re carting off your mother, your father, your husband, your wife, whomever. It may be somebody you have 60, 80 years of history with, and that person means so much to you.<\/span><\/p>\n

So there\u2019s definitely a sacredness and a responsibility to handling our community\u2019s dead. One that I am just so honored that the community entrusts us, me, with. But then there\u2019s also that other piece of it, where I go home at the end of the day, sometimes it\u2019s late. Our hours can be very varied, but I\u2019ve got a family. And at the same time, I also have to practice a little bit of emotional distance.<\/span><\/p>\n

People die in all sorts of different ways, sometimes extremely tragic ways. And sometimes I almost have to flip an emotional switch or else I could be down in those grief trenches with that family. And if that was the case, I wouldn\u2019t be able to help them. And maybe to give an example, when a child dies, that\u2019s very emotionally hard on me, because I have children. And just seeing that I almost project like, oh my gosh, this could be my child. This could be my situation.<\/span><\/p>\n

So while I reverently care for that dead child, I also have to practice a sense of emotional distance for my own self-preservation, a little bit of professionalism, but certainly that doesn\u2019t diminish the amount of care I give to that family.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I mentioned that I\u2019ve been with corpses just twice in my life. And I know in other cultures where there\u2019s an opportunity to be with corpses for longer periods of time after a death, you can sit with the corpse for days sometimes, or in other countries at other times you would encounter a corpse. And that there\u2019s a way in our culture death has been turned, it\u2019s been so medicalized that many people don\u2019t even have that experience. And I\u2019m wondering what you think about that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> In our culture, early on in the colonial period, it was very common for the families to have a very close and frequent relationship with death. Meaning the families would wash and anoint their dead and sit with them and literally wake them\u2014make sure it wasn\u2019t a false death\u2014and sit with them until signs of decomposition started and they knew it was safe to bury their dead.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now at the turn of the 20th century, you\u2019re absolutely right. Americans started turning over the care of their sick and their dead to institutions, i.e., hospitals and the newly formed funeral parlors. And throughout the 20th century, you see Americans starting to, I don\u2019t want to say distance themselves, but they certainly turned over the care to professionals.<\/span><\/p>\n

And that\u2019s why we see almost this fear or perverseness\u2014people saying, \u201cOh, I can\u2019t go into that viewing. I can\u2019t see a dead body.\u201d It\u2019s because we\u2019ve become out of touch with the sight, the sounds, the smells of our dead, which are still very prevalent in other cultures. But I\u2019m seeing that start to turn around.<\/span><\/p>\n

In researching this book, home funerals are becoming more and more frequent now, where family members will do the washing, the dressing themselves. And sometimes they will work in conjunction with the funeral home to help them with maybe the paperwork that needs to be done, or some of the other logistical things, as simple as, hey, bring your hearse over. We\u2019re going to transport so and so from the house to the cemetery or the crematorium at this time. So maybe that family doesn\u2019t have a vehicle large enough. So we are seeing almost this throwback to an earlier time, this movement starting in America.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And from your perspective, what is underneath the rise of this interest in people changing the profession from what it\u2019s come to today to what people are wanting it to be now and moving forward, what\u2019s underneath that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> I honestly think people want to get back in touch. There are certain situations where ceremonies can be very sterile. And people, especially with the internet and having more information available, they\u2019re realizing, hey, I feel like this is something I want to do. And so they look on the internet and all of a sudden they\u2019re like, this is something I can do. Whereas maybe before they had that feeling 20, 30 years ago, and without the internet, they had no means of making that feeling, that vision they had a reality, because they just didn\u2019t have the information to properly execute it.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK. So, Todd, let\u2019s say I come to you and I say, my family is asking me to get clear on how I want my corpse to be handled at the time of my death, and I\u2019d like to know what all of my options are?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> Sure, sure.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I want to know what all my options are. I don\u2019t want to look on the internet. I want you, the professional expert, to tell me, what are all my options?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> As far as final disposition or what you can do?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> What will come of my corpse and how I want my family to handle it?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> Well, this is a national podcast. So any of your listeners that have these questions, 50 states, there\u2019s 50 different set of rules. So speaking in very general terms, I would say if you or one of your listeners had that question, then either go to your local funeral home and see if you can find a funeral director that will be able to walk you through, state-specifically, what exactly you can do. Or there are the guides that kind of go through state by state, what is permissible for a home funeral.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now in your new book, <\/span>Last Rites<\/span><\/i>, we go back into history and then we also talk about this time that we\u2019re in and some of these new trends moving forward. But let\u2019s go back into history a bit. And even before embalming, what were some of the ways that, across the whole world, people started treating their dead that was different than just throw the body into the ground?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> Well, honestly I did focus on the American funeral rite, touching on its origins in where they came from in Western civilization, Rome and Egypt. So it wasn\u2019t really a cross-cultural kind of global look, I didn\u2019t research any other cultures that didn\u2019t, I would say, largely contribute to the American funeral rite. So I don\u2019t know if I can answer that specifically. But interestingly, cremation was the favored form of disposition until Constantine took over. And really after that you see this kind of large rise in inhumation.<\/span><\/p>\n

And the thing that interested me was, I always was under the impression that had specifically to do with Christianity and Christian, the kind of Christian dogma of burying the dead. But I read something that it may have had to do with a military, a strategic move, in that these cremations, they\u2019d have to fell these huge timbers and build these huge pyres to completely combust somebody, and they were threatening the wood resources needed. So the theory is it was partially this Christian dogma and partially due to a military strategic move in conserving wood resources that Constantine then decreed that everyone had to be buried.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And in terms of your book, <\/span>Last Rites<\/span><\/i>, tracing the roots of our current Western funeral. What are those roots?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> I would say that the main roots, everyone goes back to Egypt where mummification started, which\u2014mummification and embalming are similar. They\u2019re not the same. The goals are different with mummification. The goal was preservation forever of the remains. Whereas embalming, the primary goal is disinfection and then temporary preservation. Enough time so you can conduct the funeral rites. Embalming is not meant for eternal preservation.<\/span><\/p>\n

But the roots of modern embalming certainly are in mummification because the anatomists in Western Europe at the time were studying texts of people that had traveled to Egypt to observe this cadre of people who were performing the mummification. Folks like Herodotus. So I would say one of the big pieces of the American funeral rite is embalming and how it came to be. And part of the \u201cstandard\u201d funeral rite in America.<\/span><\/p>\n

And the other thing is coffin burial. In England, at the time that the Puritans came over, they would call it chested burial. This was not standard in Great Britain. Chested burial was reserved for the royalty and the landed gentry. Everyone else was shrouded, placed in a parish coffin, so the parish had one coffin and they would transport the remains from the home to the graveyard and bury the shrouded form.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, again, this was a resource issue, in that you have a mature population on a finite land mass. And wood was being used for building and also fuel and a number of other things. They couldn\u2019t \u201cwaste it\u201d on burying the dead.<\/span><\/p>\n

The Puritans come over to America and they find a seemingly limitless supply of wood here in America. So from the earliest days in America, in-coffin burial was the norm, even for enslaved people. And that\u2019s something that has carried forward. So I would say the two big pieces that defined the American death ritual early on would be in-coffin burial and embalming.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now just to differentiate for your listeners, coffins and caskets are different vessels. Coffins are no longer manufactured on a large scale in America. Sometimes you can get these artisanal craftsmen who are still making coffins, but the difference is the number of sides. I tell people to think kind of like a Dracula, what Dracula went in. So a coffin has six sides plus a top and a bottom and a casket has four.<\/span><\/p>\n

We see this shift from coffins to caskets in the late 19th century in conjunction with the Victorian funeral, when there was this softening of death. Victorians viewed death as, \u201cpeople had gone to their sleep.\u201d And so they moved from this kind of grim sounding and anthropomorphic shaped coffin to a softer, nicer sounding vessel called the casket.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> About how many people, what percentage of people in America, choose embalming for their dead?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> To break that down, I\u2019m also going to quickly break down the cremation statistics, because that\u2019s very important for this. Right now in America, we\u2019re at about 60 percent nationally, the cremation rate. So six out of 10 Americans are choosing to be cremated rather than buried. Now of that 60 percent, I\u2019ve seen different figures. Also speaking from experience, the one that, I think, rings true is 25 to 30 percent of Americans that are choosing to be cremated are also choosing to have the more traditional funeral prior to the cremation. So cremation, burial, alkaline, hydrolysis, these are all simply modes of disposition, final disposition. What\u2019s happening to the body at the end of the funeral services?<\/span><\/p>\n

So a lot of people that come in and speak with me during the funeral arrangement conference are surprised to say, \u201cOh, you mean we can embalm my mom or my dad and lay them out in a cremation casket that\u2019s constructed all of wood and have a regular nighttime viewing and take them into church and then go cremate them?\u201d I said, \u201cYes, of course we can.\u201d So if you add those two numbers together, somewhere around 60 percent of Americans are choosing embalming these days.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, if my concern is ecological, in terms of my final disposition, I want to do what\u2019s best for the earth. What would I choose?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> There are a lot of arguments about this, pros and cons. You hear the people that say X number of swimming pools of embalming fluid are buried in the earth every year. And once the embalming fluid reacts with the protein, it\u2019s no longer formaldehyde. OK? It becomes inert. It has changed. The protein has changed. So that is not technically true.<\/span><\/p>\n

And as you break down, your remains break down, you\u2019re giving off toxic chemicals anyway. Of course they\u2019re natural, but you\u2019re giving off acids and these other nasty chemicals that the earth can break down. But the most ecologically friendly method would probably be some sort of shrouded burial in a green cemetery that would probably create the smallest carbon footprint.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Can you explain to me a green cemetery, what\u2019s that? And a shrouded burial just means that I\u2019m wrapped in a cloth of some kind?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> Yes. Yes. Wrapped in a cloth. In the old times, it was called a winding sheet or a cerecloth. Kind of a useless, but fun little piece of trivia is a lot of times, these winding sheets were given as wedding gifts because cloth was so expensive. Can you imagine getting a winding sheet as a wedding gift?<\/span><\/p>\n

But anyhow, I digress. Green cemeteries, there are three different kinds. The first kind is the hybrid kind. And that kind is, I would say, the most prevalent today. That\u2019s a regular, I\u2019m going to say regular cemetery, so a corporate cemetery with upright monuments and burial vaults, they open up a section that takes green burials. And this is a way a lot of these older, ailing cemeteries are revitalizing themselves is by opening up a green burial section in their cemetery.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And then tell me what a green burial, what happens during a green burial?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> I tell people there are different shades of green. So green burial means a different thing to each family you serve. So for some people, a green burial means you wrap the remains in a sheet and take them to a conservation green cemetery, which is kind of the most rigorous of the green cemeteries in terms of what\u2019s allowed, what\u2019s not, least amount of carbon footprint.<\/span><\/p>\n

And for other people they\u2019re saying, well, a green burial, to me, is to embalm my loved one with an ecologically friendly embalming fluid, have them laid out for a viewing, put them in a wicker or a bamboo casket, something that\u2019s readily\u2014ecologically friendly to grow and renew\u2014and bury them maybe in a hybrid section of an existing cemetery.<\/span><\/p>\n

So there are definitely different shades of green. There\u2019s no one definition of green burial and I tell people it\u2019s whatever you\u2019re comfortable with.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK, Todd, here you are. You\u2019re an insider. Doesn\u2019t get to be any more of an insider when it comes to all things, burial, funereal, cremation related. What are your stated wishes for yourself?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> Frankly, I\u2019d like to be buried in the traditional manner. And again, when I say traditional, the tradition that was our parents and our grandparents. I\u2019d like the nighttime viewing. I see value in viewing the dead and affirming that they\u2019re dead and letting the family members process that by sight. And I\u2019d like to be buried in a casket in a cemetery.<\/span><\/p>\n


\n<\/span>TS:<\/b> Very clearly stated.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> Yes. And the other reason for that is permanent memorialization. And maybe that\u2019s a little bit of my own sentiment creeping in, because once my kids and grandkids die, that\u2019s just a name on a headstone. But looking back, doing research for this book, and talking to genealogists and stuff, if there\u2019s no permanent memorialization, what happens to that name? What happens to the record of that person\u2019s life?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sure. It\u2019s just a headstone sitting there, but if you go on findagrave.com, you can find all these different people from hundreds of years ago. And a lot of times there\u2019s a little bio there. And again, I\u2019m not kind of denigrating anyone\u2019s choice, but that\u2019s my choice. I see value in having that permanent memorialization. I think partly because of the research I had to do for this book, you know\u2014find all these people who had been dead hundreds of years.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> What of the research that you did for <\/span>Last Rites<\/span><\/i> surprised you the most?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> I think the cost in funerals. The cost, if you look at the cost of a funeral today and people say, \u201cOh my gosh, they\u2019re so expensive.\u201d And I\u2019m not going to lie to you and say they\u2019re not, it is a big purchase that families should be planning ahead for. Absolutely. But overall compare\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> How much money do I need to set aside?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> It depends on what you want to do.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I know, but approximately.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> I would say $10,000 to $15,000.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> And again, of course, it\u2019s probably going to be [more expensive] to have a funeral in Manhattan than it is down somewhere in Mississippi. So you also have to look at geographically where you\u2019re located when you\u2019re financially planning for your funeral.<\/span><\/p>\n

But that being said, compared to the total of somebody\u2019s net worth, funerals have gone down in cost. In colonial times, it was not unusual for a funeral to suck up an entire fifth of somebody\u2019s estate because of the costly mourning gifts and the repast they were expected to give everyone who came to the funeral.<\/span><\/p>\n

Roads were bad. Travel was more difficult back then. So when people made the effort to come to a funeral, they expected not only the finest fare to be laid out for them\u2014people were slaughtering their hogs, their chickens, basically these fine foods that were reserved for special occasions\u2014but also it was one of the few occasions when drinking was condoned. People were expected to get lubricated at a funeral.<\/span><\/p>\n

And there\u2019s this colonial colloquialism, and that\u2019s kind of fun to say, but it went, \u201cWhen a child was born, the parents would start saving wine for their wedding or funeral.\u201d It was very much true. I read a lot of accounts where, and some of them made it into the book, where the families would crack open these great kegs of wine. In a couple of instances, they would crack open what was called a pipe of wine, and a pipe held 126 gallons.<\/span><\/p>\n

So the mourners would come and drink 120. That\u2019s a lot of wine. And think about the immense cost of this. And then couple that with the funeral gifts, the mourning gifts that the families were expected to provide, and these weren\u2019t just simple prayer cards or memorial folders or a packet of seeds like the family will give out at a modern funeral.<\/span><\/p>\n

We\u2019re talking about gold rings, gloves, scarves, books. So again, luxury items back in colonial America that would cost the family an immense amount of money. The coffin may have cost three to five percent of the total funeral bill. The entire cost was in the post-funeral meal, the repast, or the funeral gifts.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And was the notion that this was a way of honoring the deceased, this was a way of celebrating the glory of their life, by having such a resource-intensive celebration?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> It was. And the funeral gifts were very practical in they were supposed to be a remembrance of the dead. So you wear that ring, every time you look at that ring you remember so and so. The scarves, especially for the men, were expected to be sewn into their jackets as a lining so every time you put your jacket on, you see that scarf and you remember so and so.<\/span><\/p>\n

Again, gloves were a luxury item back then. And so you get a nice pair of gloves, every time you put those gloves on you remember so and so. And so it was very much this culture of remembering the dead and honoring and venerating their dead.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> What do you think is the core today, Todd? When it comes to making a ceremony sacred, truly filled with honoring, and not just like something people are crossing off a list or something like that. What\u2019s the key to that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> So, Tami, that\u2019s a great question because I would say over 50 percent of the families that come down and sit across the desk from me are unchurched. So in the past, it was very easy for funeral directors. You have a Catholic sit down, they\u2019re going to have a Catholic mass. You have a Lutheran sit down, they\u2019re going to their Lutheran church, they\u2019re going to use those religious tried-and-true religious rubrics.<\/span><\/p>\n

Whereas now, with the unchurched, it\u2019s a bit trickier in that we\u2019re starting from scratch every time. And I think to answer your question, the key is to find meaning for that family. And the meaning may be different, and it is different, for every family.<\/span><\/p>\n

Some families will highly value this aspect\u2014songs. And other families will highly value a slide show during the show. And I\u2019ve had families that the grandchildren have done an interpretive dance, and that\u2019s been\u2026 So the meaning, I think, comes from what that person, the decedent, meant to you and how you\u2019re going to express it to your family members and the community.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> What do you think of this notion of we\u2019re not going to have a funeral, we\u2019re going to have a celebration of life, and the renaming in that way?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> To quote author Thomas Lynch, who is a fantastic author and also a Michigan funeral director, he cautions us about throwing the baby out with the bath water. And again, you go to a barber and ask them if you need a haircut, what\u2019s the answer you\u2019re going to get? If you\u2019re asking me, a funeral director, does somebody need a funeral? Of course, I\u2019m going to say, yes, this is what I subscribe to. This is what I see value in.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I am not against a celebration of life, but I think it needs to be remembered that this is a time of mourning. And there\u2019s a reason the funeral ritual is in place, because it has served us for so long. And it helps us start that grief journey. And if we gloss over it, if we gloss over it with a party where we\u2019re just laughing and drinking and doing whatever, I\u2019m afraid that maybe we\u2019ll become a society of perpetual mourners, because we haven\u2019t grieved properly for the loss of that person. But don\u2019t get me wrong. I am not against going out and having a celebration of life as long as it allows folks to express their grief in a proper form. So they can get all that out, mourn publicly, and start to take the first steps on their grief journey.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, you definitely mentioned that meaning is personal. It\u2019s personal to the people who are involved, especially when people identify as spiritual, but not religious. They have to do their own inner journey of finding what\u2019s meaningful for me, for our family. But what in your experience have you found supports mourning, supports it, allows it, facilitates it?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> Showing up. It\u2019s as simple as that. Just show up. Community support is incredibly powerful. In this day and age, we\u2019re all too quick to send a text, \u201cHey, I\u2019m sorry your dad died.\u201d Ah, I\u2019m sorry. Maybe I\u2019m a little old fashioned, but that doesn\u2019t cut it. That doesn\u2019t take the place of you taking the time out of your work schedule to just show up for 15 minutes, stand in the receiving line, sign the guest book and face-to-face say, \u201cHey buddy, really sorry, your mom, your dad died.\u201d People remember if you show up. They remember that. And it means something to them.<\/span><\/p>\n

Just texting them saying, \u201cHey, if you need something, call me.\u201d Those are, I\u2019m sorry, but a lot of times they\u2019re kind of hollow promises and the family never takes people up on that. But if you take time out of your day to go to a funeral, memorial service, wake visitation, whatever it may be, I can promise you, that means something to that family. And that is the most important thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now we talked some about green burial, and in terms of the place we are right now and how our funeral practices are evolving, tell me some about something you write about in the book. Mushroom suits, what are mushroom suits?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> So the mushroom suit is very controversial in that there\u2019s naysayers saying that it\u2019s junk science. And I\u2019m not taking a position that it\u2019s junk science or it\u2019s not. Having a science background, certainly the theory behind it sounds sound, to me, in that you take a shroud or a linen suit and it\u2019s impregnated with mushroom spores. And the thought being that when you bury the decedent in this shroud, the mushrooms will then assist in breaking down those toxic chemicals and returning your body to the earth quicker.<\/span><\/p>\n

And this all gained a lot of fanfare when the actor, Luke Perry from 90210, died and chose to be buried in one of these mushroom suits. And I put it in just as a way so people could see that there are choices. You\u2019re not limited to just burial or cremation. It\u2019s been very binary for the past 50 years, and before that it wasn\u2019t even binary. It was singular. You had a choice of burial or burial, but there there\u2019s starting to be different choices in what happens to your body after you die. And this is one of them.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And then also, how is composting different than what you\u2019ve described to us as a green burial?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> So natural organic reduction is what human composting is called, and it was legalized when I was writing this book. It was legalized in May of 2020 in Washington State, and it\u2019s very new. The idea behind natural organic reduction is that you put the remains, the human remains, in a vessel, a sealed chamber with wood chips or alfalfa or some other type of organic material. And the different providers have kind of a different starter mixture, it seems. Each one has a little bit different kind of \u201crecipe\u201d they\u2019re using.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then what they do is they inject oxygen and rotate this vessel for a period. It\u2019s usually about 30 days. Some, and again, it depends on the provider, some a little bit longer than 30 days and they have to maintain the heat at a certain temperature. And then at the end of the 30 days, the bones are removed from the vessel much like flame cremation.<\/span><\/p>\n

A lot of people, I don\u2019t think realized when the cremation\u2019s finished, the bones are taken out and then pulverized into this uniform kind of fluffy ash mixture that everyone\u2019s aware of. Well, same thing in NOR, and then they\u2019re returned to the compost.<\/span><\/p>\n

So what the family actually gets is about a cubic yard of sterile soil, not sterile in the sense that you can\u2019t grow anything, in the sense that there\u2019s nothing harmful. There\u2019s no harmful chemicals in the soil and the family can take all of that soil back to their land and plant a tree or do whatever they want with it. Or some families will opt to take a token amount, because a cubic yard\u2019s a good amount of soil, take a token amount. And then these NOR providers, a lot of them, have some sort of agreement with an area of a forest or something where then they will go spread the remainder of that soil.<\/span><\/p>\n

With NOR, you\u2019re not burying somebody like you would in a mushroom suit in a grave plot. That\u2019s very green burial. This is you are getting something that you can then have the flexibility to memorialize, almost like cremation.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK, Todd, here we go. Here\u2019s the question I\u2019d like to know, inside of me. It\u2019s a little odd, but what I\u2019m curious about is here, you\u2019ve been around so many bodies after someone has died. Have you had the sense that the animating soul, if you will, was present and distinct from the physical body and have you had experiences where it\u2019s like, whoa, oh my goodness.<\/span><\/p>\n

Have you had any personal experiences like that? Where you encountered what, I don\u2019t know how else to call it, but the soul of the person that was not any longer in their body, it\u2019s corpse and a soul and you could say, \u201cOh look, oh wow, that\u2019s a presence of some kind and I can feel or sense or hear it.\u201d Or something like that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> I grew up in a house that definitely had a spirit presence. So I am a believer that something exists.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> What do you mean? What happened in the house you were growing up?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> We would hear footsteps on the second floor when nobody was up there. A lot of times, we\u2019d come down in the morning, all the lights in the house would be on. Or in the middle of the night, the stereo would come on or the shutters would inexplicably open and shut. And I think you can explain away a lot of these, especially for the non-believers of, oh, you had faulty wiring or this or that. But you add it up and you come to the logical conclusion that it\u2019s probably something else, something more.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I am open to anything. As well as certainly believing that there\u2019s something out there, an energy. Where does our soul go? That electricity, that fires our brain, what happens to that energy when we die? And it can\u2019t just disappear. So it\u2019s got to go somewhere and people say, \u201cOh my gosh, is the funeral home haunted? Are you scared when you\u2019re in there alone?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Personally, my belief is the people that come back and are with us, choose a place, maybe even a person that\u2019s meaningful to them. So the funeral home\u2019s not going to have any meaning to anyone, except probably my uncle is going to haunt the you-know-what out of the funeral home once he goes, but everyone else we\u2019re bringing back, they have no connection to our funeral home.<\/span><\/p>\n

Their soul or their presence is more likely to inhabit their house, the baseball diamond, I don\u2019t know, their car, their boat, somewhere that is meaningful to them.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Well, that explains it in terms of what\u2019s happening when you go to the funeral home and know you\u2019re not afraid that you\u2019re going to encounter various spirits, because you had that experience in your home. But what I\u2019m talking about is while you\u2019re embalming, as a professional or something like that, have you had any, \u201cWell, I got a story for you, Tami. Here\u2019s what happened.\u201d Something like that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> All these stories of bodies sitting up and moving.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Yes. Things like that.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> They\u2019re just that. They\u2019re stories. And the people that tell them, I always just kind of chuckle. I\u2019ve been doing this 18 years and I\u2019ve never seen anything like that happen. And we handle a lot of death calls a year. So I would think if that were happening, I would\u2019ve seen it. And hey, I might be proven wrong. Maybe I\u2019ll go into work tomorrow and see something that just blows my mind.<\/span><\/p>\n

But I\u2019ve never felt a presence of somebody that I\u2019ve gone to the house or the hospital or a nursing home or wherever. By the time we get there, that person has passed and I think their soul, or whatever it is, has moved on to wherever it goes. I have never felt that sensation in the 18 years I\u2019ve been doing this.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Todd, I can\u2019t help myself. I\u2019m going to continue on my slightly odd questioning vein. You mentioned how important it was for you personally to have some kind of gravestone marker, a place where people could memorialize you. Is there room on planet Earth for all of us to have gravestone markers? Is that practical?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> If everyone on Earth died tomorrow, we all could be buried in a cemetery the size of, I think it\u2019s Rhode Island. You figure you can fit a thousand burials into an acre of land. These people that say running out of land, again, that\u2019s just not true.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, granted, we\u2019re taking up a lot of land with houses and office buildings and roads and this, that, and the other thing. So land is becoming more precious, but there\u2019s plenty of space to continue doing burials. And a lot of these older cemeteries can be revitalized and there\u2019s plenty of burial spaces in some of these old cemeteries.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Todd, as we come to a conclusion here, what do you want readers to take away from <\/span>Last Rites: The Evolution of the American Funeral<\/span><\/i>? What do you hope is their takeaway after reading the book?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> When people ask me who I wrote this book for, I tell them my mom. And by that, I mean the lay person, this book is not written for funeral professionals. It was written, my idea, was so I could unpack the ideas behind these kind of mysterious rites and rituals and make funerals a less intimidating experience, because I think for a lot of people, and I\u2019m like this, if you understand something, it\u2019s not scary, it\u2019s not intimidating.<\/span><\/p>\n

So in reading this you\u2019ll say, oh yeah, well, this makes sense. And this makes sense. And suddenly, hopefully, funerals will be less scary. And again, evangelizing what we do, funeral professionals, maybe we can change the narrative and funeral professionals can be a bit less seen as Lurch-like almost, or as kind of this stereotype that we\u2019ve been branded as for so long.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And then finally, let\u2019s just say, someone\u2019s listening to this and they\u2019re like, I think I could go into this profession. And it would be a way for me to be a healing force, a loving force in my community. What would be your advice to them, such that they are a healing force, they are a loving force. What would you say? Keep this in mind\u2026.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> First of all, if this is you, the listener, if you\u2019re thinking about doing this, I would say 100 percent, do it. This is such a rewarding and fulfilling career, helping people through some of the darkest times in their lives and making a real difference in somebody\u2019s life. And if you have any interest in this, the first step would be maybe do some online research, but call your local funeral home and see if you can come in and meet with a funeral director and just ask them. Say, \u201cHey, can I follow you around for a couple days and see what you do?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And a lot of funeral directors would be thrilled to share what they\u2019re doing with you and show you how great funeral service is. And from there then make the decision, should I go to mortuary school or not? But try it a little bit and see what happens. And if you\u2019re like me, maybe the profession will choose you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I\u2019ve been speaking with Todd Harra. He\u2019s the author of a new book with Sounds True, <\/span>Last Rites: The Evolution of the American Funeral<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

Todd, thank you for your sincerity and that super-good noggin of yours that has done so much terrific research to put our current situation with the American funeral in a historical context. Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TH:<\/b> Oh, you\u2019re welcome. Again, thank you for having me on Tami.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Thanks for listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. You can read a full transcript of today\u2019s interview at resources2.soundstrue.com\/podcast. That\u2019s resources2.soundstrue.com\/podcast. If you\u2019re interested, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app, and if you feel inspired, head to iTunes and leave <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> a review. I absolutely love getting your feedback and being connected. Sounds True: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-19738","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nLast Rites Wisdom From A Fourth Generation Undertaker...<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with Last Rites Wisdom From A Fourth Generation Undertaker. 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