{"id":20157,"date":"2023-06-02T13:33:48","date_gmt":"2023-06-02T19:33:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=20157"},"modified":"2023-06-02T13:33:48","modified_gmt":"2023-06-02T19:33:48","slug":"the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/","title":{"rendered":"The Reckoning: Seeing More and Feeling More"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon:<\/b> Hello, friends. My name\u2019s Tami Simon, and I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True. I want to welcome you to the Sounds True podcast, <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. I also want to take a moment to introduce you to Sounds True\u2019s new membership community and digital platform. It\u2019s called Sounds True One. Sounds True One features original premium transformational docuseries; community events; classes to start your day and relax in the evening; and special weekly live shows, including a video version of <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> with an after-show community question-and-answer session with featured guests. I hope you\u2019ll come join us, explore, come have fun with us and connect with others. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I also want to take a moment and introduce you to the Sounds True Foundation, our nonprofit that creates equitable access to transformational tools and teachings. You can learn more at soundstruefoundation.org and in advance, thank you for your support.<\/span><\/p>\n

Hello, Sounds True friends, and welcome in this episode of <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. My guests are Tony Schwartz and Kimberly Manns. Let me tell you a little bit more. Kimberly Manns is the CEO of H3Diversity, a consulting firm that enables leaders to bring their whole selves\u2014head, heart, and hands\u2014to the cultivation and creation of inclusive leadership, inclusive teams, and inclusive organizations. Kimberly\u2019s here with Tony Schwartz. Tony\u2019s someone I\u2019ve known for a long time, something like two and a half decades. He\u2019s a journalist, a bestselling author, and the founder and CEO of the Energy Project, a consulting firm that helps individuals and organizations more skillfully manage their energy so they can thrive in a world of relentlessly rising demand and complexity. Together Kim and Tony have created a new audio series with Sounds True. It\u2019s called <\/span>The Reckoning: Why Are You Who You Are and Who Can You Become?<\/span><\/i>\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And here to start, Tony and Kim, I want to have you address something you say at the very beginning of <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i>, you say the work of <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> is to see more of what you\u2019re not seeing and feel more of what you\u2019re not feeling. Oh, wow, that\u2019s a lot. That\u2019s a big tall order. So if you could tell me each what you mean by that. See what we\u2019re not seeing? I mean there\u2019s so much we\u2019re not seeing. Feel what we\u2019re not feeling\u2014well. There\u2019s a reason I\u2019m not feeling it, thank you very much. How is this the work of <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i>?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Well, I think I\u2019ve been on this very journey, Tami, for decades probably, and maybe more because the whole notion of development, and specifically of childhood development, is that, let me start this over. Can I do that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>You can because we\u2019re friends.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>I won\u2019t do it again.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>We will edit it. You can do it again. It doesn\u2019t matter. We\u2019re friends. Jen\u2019s my friend too. Kim\u2019s our, we\u2019re all friends. We can do whatever the heck we want. It\u2019s tape.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Great. OK, here we go. So if you think about, Tami, childhood development, it happens kind of automatically. And what happens, actually, is that over time you see more and you feel more, you\u2019re conscious of more. And so that\u2019s why if you have a house and you\u2019ve got a ten-year-old and a five-year-old in it and you happen to walk down the street to get something and the house catches on fire, you want the ten-year-old to be in charge, not the five-year-old. Because the ten-year-old, in almost every single case, is going to be able to see more and is therefore going to be able to handle it with more skills and more capacity. If it\u2019s a 15-year-old and a ten-year-old, same thing applies. You want the 15-year-old instead of the ten-year-old.<\/span><\/p>\n

But the thing is that around 18 or 19 or 20, we hit this moment in our lives where the constant increase in what we can see and in our own growth and development slows\u2014and it slows really considerably. And what happens is that we shift into something we call confirmation bias. So we\u2019ve spent all these years as we\u2019ve been growing up, trying to develop an identity, a sense of who we are, and what we\u2019ve discovered is that now we want to be grown-ups, we\u2019re tired of being growing-ups. You know what, I\u2019m struggling because I\u2019m not as awake as I hoped I would be.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>Do you want me to take a stab at it?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Why don\u2019t you start, Kim? OK, thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>Yeah. What comes to mind when I think about those questions is, I think about how Tony and I first met. We met right after the murder of George Floyd and everybody was grappling with the question of, what do you do in this moment? How can I be of service in the moment? How do you actually solve the problems of all the polarities that we\u2019re now facing as a society? And I think as he and I started to have the conversation\u2014and it was a much larger group than he and I\u2014that it became increasingly clear that at least one of the answers was to help all of us be bigger human beings and therefore better leaders.<\/span><\/p>\n

So how do we help people get beyond their own mental model, which gets us into these either-or polarities that we\u2019ve been experiencing so much in our society lately, to expand into something larger that not only allows us to deepen into more of who we are but then also see more of who each other are and actually see others in ourselves. And so it was this big dream that we had. And then we started asking question, how do we do that? And so it began this long conversation and journey of what a leadership program looked like that really helped individuals see more and be more.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>Now of course you could create a leadership program, each of you on your own, and yet you decided to create <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> together. Why?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Yeah. Well actually, originally, we created a version of <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> that Kim joined in the pilot version of it. And we were, because of what had happened with George Floyd, our original thought was, we\u2019re really interested in how people can grow and develop on their own. And then suddenly we were faced with a situation where it was so obvious that we needed to be also thinking about this in terms of how people connect with others. And we were taking\u2014Kim and about a dozen other people\u2014through this process. And at a certain point in it, Kim came to us and said, \u201cWe\u2019re starting to talk about race and about identity and about belonging.\u201d And essentially she said, she could speak for herself, but essentially she said, you can\u2019t really do this by yourself. You really don\u2019t have the lived experience to be able to reflect back, in a way, our experience. Because the group was half people of color in a way that resonates for us. You need to be able to have another perspective in this.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think both my daughter Emily and I realized, yep, that makes a lot of sense. And so we started talking with Kim about what it would look like if we brought the two sets of skills and experiences together. And it was off to the races from there.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>And when it comes to this notion of seeing more and feeling more, I wonder how working together has, if you will, pressurized you both to do that. And if you can share a bit about that.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>We\u2019re both smiling because it\u2019s been an amazing journey between the two of us. And we\u2019ve had both these extreme highs and, honestly, some lows because of the differences in our lived experiences, the differences in our mental models, the differences in how we approach the work. And so there\u2019s been a lot of rupture and repair between us all in the service of thinking about what really needs to happen in order for us to bring this broad view of what leadership could look like. So not only have we figured out, what do our participants need to see and feel more? We\u2019ve had to go through the process ourselves, individually and with each other.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>I\u2019d also add, Tami, that when you think about this notion of seeing more implicitly, what we\u2019re saying is, there\u2019s a lot you\u2019re not seeing. What is it you\u2019re not seeing? You\u2019re not seeing all the things that it\u2019s incredibly uncomfortable to see. You\u2019re not seeing all the ways in which all the things that you build to protect and defend yourself in the face of the internal experience that, fundamentally, you\u2019re not good enough. Because that\u2019s such a universal experience for people, to greater and lesser degrees, in different ways.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so you get a whole range of things, starting with belief systems and mindset and biases and habits and rationalizations\u2014all of these things that are going on inside you, mostly unconsciously, that are determining how you show up in the world but that you mostly don\u2019t realize. So really seeing more is about embracing all of who you are. It\u2019s about the capacity to look at both the best and the worst of your own instincts and behaviors and to accept all of it. Because the reality is, when you can truly embrace all of who you are, you have nothing left to defend. And what a spectacular saving of energy it is not to be spending as much of it in defense.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>And I want to talk a lot more about that, but before we get there, Tony, I want to ask you just a very direct question, which is, did you have to reckon with certain aspects of white male privilege and power as part of even the creation of <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i>? And how did that process go for you by partnering with Kim and sharing the power of the stage to create this program?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Well, that reckoning is ongoing. I\u2019m still in that reckoning. I think it was a huge factor and remains so and it\u2019s, first and foremost, it\u2019s about race. Because race is so inescapably an issue. If you are a person of color, you walk out of your house every morning and the world is going to confront you with the fact that you\u2019re a person of color. If you are white and you had my experience, you probably walked out of your house fairly oblivious to the idea that there would be any issue in your walking down the street and showing up in the world. So oblivious\u2014I think that would probably describe the way I came to this at the beginning. My heart was in the right place. I grew up with a mother who was actually a civil rights pioneer, also a very active and well-known feminist.<\/span><\/p>\n

So I grew up in a household where these were issues that we talked about, but that\u2019s very different than actually having the experience of dealing with that in the world. And half this group, as I said, were people of color. The person who runs the energy project now is a woman of color, many of our facilitators are people of color. So this is an issue that I have felt compelled to engage with a lot. It\u2019s not only though race, it\u2019s also gender, it\u2019s age, it\u2019s geography, it\u2019s power as you say. So for example, I am the person who owns and runs The Energy Project. So by definition, there\u2019s a power dynamic that\u2019s different and I\u2019m constantly in the experience of, is my concern here? Kim has referred to the fact that we\u2019ve had our ups and downs, is my, is the way I\u2019m, what I\u2019m feeling and the way I\u2019m showing up\u2014because is there a part of me that isn\u2019t seeing what the impact is of my power, what the impact is of being white versus black, male versus female, older versus younger? Yeah, it\u2019s all part of it.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>One of the ideas that hit me hard in listening to <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> was this notion that there\u2019s a part of us, often, that wants to be better than other people. That\u2019s comparing ourselves to other people. And that is one of the ways that we quote, unquote, \u201cdefend,\u201d as you said. And I\u2019d love to understand from both of you how you\u2019ve gone through the process of identifying, oh, these are the parts of me that are the heavy defenders.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I mean, I just will just bring myself forward in the discussion to share that when I heard that I go, yeah, I want to be better than other people. So I don\u2019t actually feel how possibly neutrally not worth very much I am. So if I\u2019m better, oh my God, I\u2019m worth a lot. And that\u2019s defending from this very vulnerable sense of, it\u2019s possible I\u2019m not really worth a whole lot. And it\u2019s like, oh wow, that\u2019s running so much of my life. That\u2019s a kind of reckoning. So I\u2019d like to learn from both of you, what have been the big defender personas, if you will, but they\u2019re even more than that. They\u2019re kind of character formations that you\u2019ve discovered are running your lives. And how have you gone through a transformation process around that? Kim, you want to go?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>Sure. So it\u2019s an ongoing process of reflection and I was reviewing the audio today and it helped me get back into the space when we were taping not too long ago. And I was able to remember some of the either\/or in comparisons that we were journeying through at that time\u2014and we still are in this moment. But what I recognize for myself is that there are times when Tony, not intentionally, but because of, I think, maybe even my own stuff, replicates experiences of hierarchy and power that have not been great experiences for me.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so even before him, I\u2019ve had experiences with hierarchy and power that haven\u2019t been positive. And so him, as a white male who has had this very long career in this field, who has been doing this for a while, all these different power dynamics, older than I am, has at times replicated an experience that I\u2019ve had to take a step back from and say, what\u2019s coming up for me at this moment that I need to take responsibility for?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So I know that that\u2019s a deep journey of mine, and at times I\u2019ve had to even take space from the situation in our partnership just so I can just solely deal with what\u2019s happening with me internally versus some of what the external exchange of us is replicating.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Yeah, better than and less than, it\u2019s like a losing game because\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>Or it could be a winning and losing. I mean that\u2019s the whole nature of it, better than\/less than.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Yeah, the thing is, it\u2019s a losing game, because the moment that you begin to feel \u201cbetter than,\u201d even if you can martial evidence that you\u2019re \u201cbetter than,\u201d you\u2019re at risk of being \u201cless than\u201d instantly. So the minute you\u2019re on top in a hierarchical situation, there\u2019s a part of you that\u2019s worrying that you won\u2019t be OK unless you stay on top. So you\u2019re always oscillating between \u201cbetter than\u201d and \u201cless than,\u201d and neither one is a secure place to find yourself. And the other piece of this is that I really do believe, and I know we\u2019ll get into this, but I really do believe that we\u2019re not a single self. There are\u2014we have multiple parts. Everyone knows this because everyone has had the experience in saying, a part of me right now feels really angry and a part of me is fine with the way things are going.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So we all know that we have these different parts, and I do believe that the most core part of who we are, that what we call the core Self, actually isn\u2019t\u2014never lives in the experience of \u201cbetter than\u201d or \u201cless than.\u201d It doesn\u2019t worry about its own value. It\u2019s that we know you know that experience. You know that experience if you\u2019ve had any form of a flow experience, where you are just basically one with the experience you\u2019re having, you\u2019re calm, you feel clear, you have a sense of compassion\u2014that\u2019s actually a core state. It\u2019s an essential state. The problem is, most of the time, the vast majority of the time, you are living in one of your defenders, you are living in a \u201cbetter than\u201d or \u201cless than.\u201d You\u2019re living in an angry part or in a part that withdraws, or you are not actually bringing all of your capacity to the table, because you can\u2019t grow and defend at the same time.<\/span><\/p>\n

So just one little more thing about this, if you think about, Tami, the difference between growth spending and defense spending, and from a governmental perspective, it\u2019s a zero-sum game. Meaning if you spend a $100 million on defense, that\u2019s exactly a $100 million not available for growth. There\u2019s no disputing that. So if, in fact, we are living most of our lives unconsciously so from a defender\u2019s perspective\u2014and you can defend yourself in dysfunctional ways and you can defend yourself in very socially acceptable ways\u2014it\u2019s a defender if you feel a compulsion to do it. So a high achiever can be from a place of defense. In fact very often it\u2019s a person who\u2019s a real giver, who\u2019s a caretaker for other people. If that\u2019s compulsive, it can be from a socially acceptable place. You can also be an angry person. You can also be a person who drinks in order to numb yourself. So really understanding that the parts of you that are in the business of defending are not serving you, they\u2019re not allowing you to be the best of who you\u2019re capable of being.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>And let\u2019s make this really explicit for people. What are we defending against, these defenders?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Worthlessness. I\u2019m going to let Kim expound on that. But basically, what\u2019s at stake when you are triggered in your life, when you move into a state of fight or flight, when the stress hormones start to circulate in your body, if you trace it backwards and you ask yourself, what am I so agitated about? It\u2019s almost always a threat to your value and worthiness.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>Yeah. So when I was talking earlier about, you had asked what were situations that came up for us during this where we were able to explore some of our defenders, I was also referring to what Tony\u2019s alluding to, which is a framework of what we call the three selves that we introduce as a part of this course. [We have] this core Self that Tony was talking about, which is not a self that has this idea of \u201cbetter than\u201d or \u201cless than\u201d or either-or\u2014a comparison. But then there\u2019s this other self that\u2019s a child self that at some point in our lives feels helpless. And so before we have a chance to really connect to what we call our deepest Self, the essence of who we are, our core Self, many of us have been, and I think actually all of us have this experience of being in this child self where we feel helpless.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And then our immediate reaction, before we really understand the power of the core Self, is to create what we call what Tony\u2019s referring to as defenders. And so these defenders can show up in very acceptable ways. They can show up as perfectionists, they can show up as people who are caretakers, always there for everybody. And they can show up in very ineffective ways\u2014people who get very angry and express it in ways that are very unproductive. And so again, those ways that we get triggered that we then mistake for all of who we are and our personality is what we call our defenders.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And our goal here in this work is to get deep enough into our core Self, which doesn\u2019t have an either-or, a \u201cbetter than\u201d or \u201cless than,\u201d that is actually able to take each one of those parts of ourself\u2014the child self, the defender\u2014and accept all of them and give them what they need to serve at their highest purpose for us versus being in what we call these unconscious states, where there are these either-ors in this binary ways of being.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>Is it fair to say that part of the core journey of <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> is to become aware of these defenders and to say, oh, I know what they\u2019re doing, I know why they\u2019re doing it, and I also think I am starting to sense my inherent worth outside of the defender. And if so, then what I\u2019d like to know from each of you is, how did you encounter and know your core Self, your core energy? Was there an initial moment where you were like, oh my, it happened when I was sitting on the meditation cushion. It happened in this inquiry practice. It happened when I took psilocybin, reading this book. Or has it just been a gradual dawning of, oh my God, I think I might be kind of OK underneath it all. So I\u2019d be curious to hear that from both of you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Well, let me just give credit where credit is due. These are reformulations of ideas that come from Internal Family Systems therapy, Dick Schwartz\u2019s work.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>And I\u2019m sure many people are recognizing that as we\u2019re speaking. You\u2019ve taken them and made them very business-friendly. So thank you for that, and just also accessible and usable. So I appreciate that. Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Yes. So I was introduced to this conceptually through Dick\u2019s work, but I\u2019d say for me, perhaps one of the most life-changing moments was actually a cognitive insight and it was an experience of waking up one morning. I\u2019m almost making it sound like, it almost felt like an epiphany. And it dawned on me that all of the worst things that people had ever said about me, no small number, or that I\u2019d said about myself, which was an even bigger number, were not only true, but they were truer than I could bear to tolerate. But they weren\u2019t all that was true. And that there was a part of me that could actually look at those aspects of me, what I now call defenders, and recognize that they weren\u2019t the whole story. And I think a lot of people live in the experience of their defenders, assuming that it\u2019s reality.<\/span><\/p>\n

Most of us look out in the world and we think what we see is reality, but in fact, it\u2019s only a slice of reality. It\u2019s the reality that we have created for ourselves, in large part, to be able to move forward in the world. If you think about the enneagram, which most of the folks listening to this are familiar with, but the personality typing system that posits that there are nine different types that characterize human beings. And we have recognized that they\u2019re actually nine defenders. There are nine different ways, the enneagram types that people define themselves as in order to get the feeling of value and love that, to one degree or another, they don\u2019t have. So for me, in beginning to actually see that these defenders were out there, it helped me to also see that somebody had to be seeing that, there had to be another part that was seeing that.<\/span><\/p>\n

And as I began to experience that, and I want to tell you, Tami, that it takes a long time. We can introduce the idea that there\u2019s a core Self, but the actual direct experience of it, it\u2019s really\u2014it takes a long time before most people begin to tune into it. And there\u2019s no bell that rings that can tell you, this is it. It is just a felt sense. But over time I began to notice that and I began to notice that when I was feeling that its relationship to my defenders was one of protection, was one almost of parenting. It was like the core Self will step in and begin to take over from the defender, the role it has felt compelled to play, but isn\u2019t really well-equipped to play.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>Can you give me a concrete example, Tony? Give me a concrete example from your life?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>So one of my primary defenders is anger, is certainty. I\u2019m an eight on the enneagram, which is the boss. And if I feel a sense of threat or danger, my first impulse is to try to take control of the situation and simultaneously to push away the feelings of vulnerability and potentially of weakness. And as Kim was saying, that feeling of vulnerability or weakness is the feeling of a child. The child is, in fact, defenseless. And if the child is left alone or isn\u2019t fed or is treated badly, the child really doesn\u2019t have any recourse. That\u2019s why the defender shows up. But the defender shows up to protect the child at an early age itself. I think if you ask most people when they\u2019re in a defender, so I\u2019m feeling really angry right now. How old are you? They will not tell you their own age.<\/span><\/p>\n

What they\u2019ll tell you is 9, 11, 7. What they\u2019ll realize is that there are actually children in grown-ups clothing, they\u2019re little soldiers. We have a bunch of little soldiers in us that jump into help. Now when the Self comes into play, so you ask me what happens? Well when the Self comes into play, the Self doesn\u2019t have a fear about its own value. The Self can embrace, the Self can feel compassion.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So the Self can act in much the same way that a parent would if a child fell off a jungle gym and was bleeding and screaming and needed to be comforted. The adult, the core Self, the older part of you is capable of taking care of your child, taking care of your vulnerabilities in an entirely different way. So then it becomes OK for somebody like me to acknowledge, which I can now. I can acknowledge those feelings of weakness or vulnerability without feeling, I\u2019m going to die. Now it does depend on the stress level I\u2019m living in, but it\u2019s part of my repertoire now where it was not before.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>And Kim, what about you? The discovery of this core Self-energy? What\u2019s been your journey with that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>I would say that all of us, probably including myself, have had glimpses of the core Self all throughout life. These times where you kind of feel like you\u2019re in a flow and you don\u2019t know how to name it, but it feels like something greater than yourself that you\u2019re operating in. But it really hasn\u2019t been until the past few years that I\u2019ve gotten acquainted with kind of somatic work and Internal Family Systems that I\u2019ve been able to more skillfully be, have my consciousness directed at the core Self, where I now identify or much more frequently can identify that that\u2019s my true Self.<\/span><\/p>\n

Because before I would feel glimpses of it, but I just thought, OK, that\u2019s just a part of me. But then I would equally identify with parts of me that were sad from bad experiences or parts of me that needed to plan everything that were, now I understand, parts of me that I formed for important reasons to defend myself. And so really, my journey of liberation from these defenders has been more skillfully managed and more thoughtfully created over the past few years that I\u2019ve been able to almost go through an identity change, to say, oh, OK, this is really who I am. And so I have a much better sense of the essence of who I am. And really these tools have been transformational for me.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>When you say somatic work, can you be explicit? What are you doing? What are you feeling? How has that shifted things for you?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>Well, I would say, trauma lives in your body for the most part. And so I spent a long period of my life running from being associated with my body. And it wasn\u2019t until I got introduced to somatic work, which helped me separate from just identifying with my emotions and the cognitive part of my intelligence that I was able to almost expand an understanding of who I was into my entire body and create spaciousness in who I was. So specifically, something as simple as this exercise of having my hands open up like this and being able to identify with the fact that these are my hands and being able to understand that in these hands are the experiences of not only my current self but my three-year-old self, my teenage self, and being able to literally feel all those parts of myself as I just do something simple like this.<\/span><\/p>\n

So the somatic work is really deepening into this experience of your body as a place of safety, which I didn\u2019t have for a long time. And so I would say those exercises on a daily basis has really helped strengthen and deepen the spaciousness within me to have some separation.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0And I feel like all this work is about just getting just a little bit of separation from what we\u2019ve identified in the past, whether it\u2019s emotions, whether it\u2019s our intellect, whether it\u2019s our race, our gender\u2014just getting just a little bit of space to be able to say, OK, that\u2019s a part of me, but that\u2019s not all of me. And what does that part of me need in order to be expressed in the fullest, deepest way? And so sometimes it\u2019s a little bit hard until you actually experience it, but that core Self really does have the ability to offer compassion and courage and curiosity to all these parts of us that we thought just were completely who we were\u2014enough so that they can be kind of liberated into their fullest and greatest selves.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>OK, let me see if you two can help me make a connection here for a moment if that\u2019s OK. Because when I hear something like <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i>, just that title, I think, OK, I\u2019m getting older and I am getting older. Oh, oh, we all are. And there\u2019s this sense of, did I live my true genuine heart\u2019s life, my soul\u2019s life? Or did I live my true life? My real, so what\u2019s the connection between this true person? We want to be like <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i>, like come on, help me sort this out. I don\u2019t want this false self. The false self is quote, unquote, are these defender personalities. How do you see that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>I don\u2019t see the defenders as false personalities, by the way. And in fact the Self itself, the core Self doesn\u2019t really have personality. I almost prefer to think of it as an energy. You have self-energy, but it\u2019s not highly, in the core Self, it\u2019s not highly differentiated. It doesn\u2019t have, for example, an agenda. It doesn\u2019t have personality characteristics, it has a healing desire, it has an equanimity. But so the defenders, as you do this work, what you are really trying to connect with is that they are there. They\u2019re not to be hated and to be disdained and to be run over. They were there for only one reason, to help you. They were there to help you. And by the way, it was an unfair demand on them because they weren\u2019t equipped to do that job. They stepped in and took on that burden because, relative to the child, your child\u2019s self-ability to deal with it, they had at least more capacity.<\/span><\/p>\n

So <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> is really the shift, Tami, I\u2019ll make it in a way very simple. It\u2019s the shift from our largely external orientation in the world\u2014how are we doing with other people, how are we achieving or not achieving, do we have the right relationships, are we measuring up\u2014to a turn inside, in which you\u2019re asking yourself those fundamental questions that are part of the title of this audio series. Why are you the way you are? Because all of these defenders, all of who you are, you developed for a reason. And we don\u2019t usually think about that. So you developed the way you did for a reason. And then the question becomes, who can you become when you begin to do what Kim was talking about, which is get a little space from these defenders, these definers of you. Who can you become? Or another way of putting that would be, what do you really want?<\/span><\/p>\n

So in coaching, for example, the primary question I\u2019m asking my coachees is: What do you really want? What do you want apart from what you think you should be, from what you\u2019re been expected to be, from what you think will keep you safe, from what will make you respectable? So that\u2019s that second piece of the puzzle. Who could you become if you actually allowed yourself to accept what you really want and go for it? And then finally, what\u2019s standing in your way? That\u2019s <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i>, Tami. That\u2019s <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i>. And most people don\u2019t reckon. Why? Because it\u2019s too painful. Why? Because if you start to think about all those ways in which you\u2019ve\u2014things you\u2019re protected yourself from feeling again, around worthlessness and not being good enough, it feels too painful. So people turn away from it in a thousand ways. We have a thousand ways of doing that.<\/span><\/p>\n

But I love the provocativeness of <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i>. And the people I admire most in the world, and Kim is one of them, through all this stuff, Kim is one of them. And why is Kim one of them? Because she freaking reckons. I know that this is a person who will not accept that, \u201cOh, it\u2019s just that way. That\u2019s just me.\u201d If it\u2019s not working for her, she\u2019s going to look into it. And I have a handful of people in my life for whom that\u2019s really true in an everyday sense. So <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> is an act of bravery.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>That\u2019s beautiful, Tony when you were talking about why we don\u2019t do it and how painful it is. Kim, I wrote down something you teach in the series, which is, 75% of our brain developed by age three, 90% of our brain developed by age five. And I mean, I think that was the moment when I was like, no way. That\u2019s a whole lot of formation. Before I even really had a say in what was going on and what was going on in that family context, there was a lot of dysfunction, as is true for many of us\u2014and 90% of our brain was formed. But we have to reckon with that is what you\u2019re saying.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>Yeah, I mean, I like to bring up that statistic because I want people to have so much compassion for themselves and others about how much of us is hardwired before what you say happens, where we actually have the agency to support and take care of ourselves. And so that if, in an early childhood stage, you\u2019re dealing with any type of toxic stress, then that actually changes the way your brain is formed and the way your neurons connect, and the complexity of which your brain is able to develop. So there\u2019s scientific research behind why those first zero to five years are so important. But the most interesting thing is what buffers that pain and really helps your brain develop is having positive relationships with adults that care for you.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so what we\u2019re doing here with <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> is really teaching, how do you re-parent yourself in the places where you weren\u2019t able to have access to that loving and caring support. For whatever reason, many of us have had parents that maybe did the best that they can, or maybe we didn\u2019t have parents that did the best that they could, but all of us at some point or the other have to go through that process of re-parenting part of ourselves that didn\u2019t get the love and the care that it needed, in order to not be so defensive and to not be so reactive. And so all of us have to have compassion for why we are the way that we are. But it is possible to recreate those connections at any age. It just takes a lot of persistence and a lot of kind of deepening into the core of who you are.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>I\u2019d add to that, implicit in what Kim just said is, trauma is normative. Trauma\u2019s not the exception. The terrifying experience that your needs are not going to be met is a universal experience. It\u2019s built into the fabric of your growth from the time, from that period where you are helpless. And there are times when your needs are not going to be met no matter how wonderful your caretakers are. That legacy that you carry inside you is what we need to reckon with. And until we acknowledge that it\u2019s happened, you cannot change what you do not notice. So noticing is a profound starting place. And to notice, you have to be willing to notice all of it because otherwise, you\u2019re back in the protecting, censoring game. So I really feel like it\u2019s a gift to people to help them see that it\u2019s not that they went off the rails, they did what happens by being human beings, and being human is incredibly difficult. Period. Full stop.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s hard and it does have pain in it. And if you look at the time we\u2019re in, because <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> that we\u2019re talking about, we\u2019ve brought to the world in 2022, 2023, and we have coming at us more demands, disruptors, uncertainties, fears than we\u2019ve ever had in our lives. And I\u2019ve been around a long time, Tami, you\u2019ve been around a long time. And I find this unprecedented.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I took a break today in the middle of the day from the regular work I was doing, and I just started flipping through the internet. I went on to either the <\/span>Washington Post<\/span><\/i> or the <\/span>New York Times<\/span><\/i>, and there\u2019s a little article saying in five years, 98% chance that we\u2019re going to have a radical increase in temperature on the planet. Not in 20 or 30 years, not maybe someday, but in five years. That\u2019s just one little piece of the day I spent. But it\u2019s monumental and it feels as if there are tons of those impositions on our life at this point.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So I remembered meeting Ram Dass back in 1975, and maybe I was listening to him give a talk or maybe I was interviewing him, but he said, \u201cWe\u2019re going to need people who are able to stay regulated in a very, very difficult, stressful world.\u201d <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> is also about, how do you regulate yourself in the face of very, very challenging circumstances. And when you do, when you can regulate yourself, when you can tap into that core Self, it\u2019s contagious. In The Energy Project, we call it the Chief Energy Officer. You\u2019re a Chief Energy Officer,f for better or for worse. So when you can radiate some of those feelings, you are having an impact that\u2019s much bigger than just you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>And as you\u2019re talking about the time we\u2019re in, Tony, it makes me aware\u2014and just your partnership, you and Kim working together makes me aware of this\u2014the collective reckoning that we\u2019re in as a human species. So yes, we\u2019re having to face the pain of our individual early childhood dysfunction and how we reacted to that, but humans are in the midst of having to confront the horrible mess we\u2019ve created. And so I\u2019m curious what you think that connection is, of developing these reckoning skills at the individual level and what we\u2019re faced with collectively.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>It makes me think of an Audrey Lorde quote that says, \u201cYou can\u2019t dismantle the master\u2019s house with the master\u2019s tools.\u201d And basically what she\u2019s saying is, we can\u2019t use the same ways of being and thinking if we want to create something new. And so what I view right now, with all this grappling with each other and all this polarization, is a need not just for new policies to address the issues that we have, but a new way of being so that we can get to the complexity of policies that we need to address the complexity of issues that we have today. And I believe that our current ways of being in our current mental models that really, really\u2014the Western world really identifies with our cognitive intelligence\u2014is just not what\u2019s going to help us move into the future in a productive way.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Yeah, I think another way to think about this, just to pick up on what Kim\u2019s saying, is that we have an operating system inside us that is inadequate to the tasks that we\u2019re being asked to\u2014the challenges we\u2019re being asked to address. So again, part of <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> is the upgrading of the operating system. It\u2019s literally being able to say\u2014this is why that Audrey Lorde quote is so apt\u2014is the way we\u2019ve been doing things is not going to be the vehicle through which we transform. And that involves a lot of dismantling and that involves a lot of re-imagining the possible.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So if you think of it just in the terms, Kim started to mention a moment ago, we tend to think that we can operate by one center or one form of intelligence, which is cognitive. That\u2019s the highest level you can reach when you\u2019re logical and rational.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s what Piaget said is, what you\u2019re trying to get to formal operational thinking. And when you get there, the smartest guy in the room is the person, it\u2019s usually the guy who\u2019s getting that role. The smartest guy in the room is the person who gets the prize and gets to run the show. But actually, there are multiple other centers of intelligence that we\u2019ve drawn on as a culture much, much less. Three of them, just as an example, are the intelligence of the heart. So what is that feelings take? Because we started out this conversation talking a lot about, well, what about seeing more and feeling more? So what does the heart bring to this in terms of relationship? What about the body? Because the body, not only is it the repository of trauma, as Kim was pointing out, but it\u2019s also the repository of wisdom.<\/span><\/p>\n

The mind can move from rational to rationalizing very easily. So the mind can become, instead of your friend, it can become your distorter and it can tell, make up stories. The body is in effect a potential antidote to that, because if you are calm, if you\u2019re regulated, the body will tell you what\u2019s true. The gut feeling, the instinct, the intuition, those are all real forms of intelligence. They don\u2019t have language the way the mind does, which gives it an unfair advantage. But that\u2019s a very powerful source of intelligence.<\/span><\/p>\n

And finally, the spirit. I\u2019m aware of, when I sort of sort through those four centers of intelligence, the spirit is a powerful piece of what I draw on to move through the world. Because the spirit for me is about, what about the greater good? What about that which is beyond me that I need to be taking into account? What about when I step away from my own self-absorption? What am I here to serve? And I know that\u2019s something that you can certainly resonate with in your own work. So there\u2019s four centers of intelligence, which in <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> we\u2019re almost introducing people or reintroducing them to their existence, or three of the four we\u2019re reintroducing, because we tend to devalue three of the four.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>And I think most people have an intuitive ready connection. At least they understand when you say the intelligence of the heart, their heart may be closed. They may not want to feel what\u2019s there, but they know what you\u2019re talking about. Bodily intelligence and gut instincts. I think people know what you\u2019re talking about there too. They may be disembodied, etcetera, but they still know what you\u2019re talking about. Then when you say I think this quote, unquote, \u201cspiritual intelligence,\u201d I imagine that there\u2019s a lot of question marks out there and kind of mouths that are going, what? What are you talking about? So, Kim, I wonder if you can say a little bit more about, what is that for you?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>Yeah, this is the one that we try to be the most broad about in our trainings, our leadership programs, because it really varies from person to person. Some people identify it as God, some as universe, some as energy. And so it\u2019s really kind of, what Tony alluded to, for me, which is what I deepen into to understand my highest Self and my highest purpose.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And so anytime I\u2019m in a place where I\u2019m feeling triggered and I\u2019m feeling stuck, I try to move to just a deeper Self inside of me that has an understanding and an intuition of what is my higher purpose that I\u2019m seeking after, so I can answer the question, what\u2019s my next step based on what I\u2019m really trying to move towards. So it\u2019s just like this constant guide that I always have access to that, if I can remember, can really give me the wisdom and the intuition in the moment to make sure that I\u2019m moving toward a higher purpose. And in my perspective, a higher power.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>What does that mean?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Serving.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>What am I serving? That\u2019s a good question. And Kim, what do you mean when you say a higher power?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>Well, we kind of talk about this in <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i>, which is a power that comes from within us that, when matched with our external power, can do the best service to the world and to others. And so there is an internal power that we all have that, again, doesn\u2019t have the either\/or, \u201cbetter than\/less than,\u201d that really is in the highest service of ourselves and others, that we leverage appropriately with the external power we have\u2014whether it\u2019s our positions, whether it\u2019s our race, gender, other identities\u2014to really do the best good in the world and the best service to others.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>So for me, the highlight of our conversation so far was when Tony was talking about you, Kim, and he very excitedly said, \u201cShe freaking reckons.\u201d And I thought to myself, oh, that\u2019s interesting. What would be the characteristics, the qualities, the requirements to be somebody who freaking reckons? What does it mean to be that person? And I think that might be a good note for us to end on if you can both comment on that and maybe think of people you know who are reckoning heroes and heroines, if you will, courageous reckoners, what are they like? What do they do?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>Yeah. So that despite any differences that we have, that\u2019s where me and Tony really align\u2014in that admiration and respect for each other\u2019s own path. And Tony doesn\u2019t have to be reckoning right now, given where he is in life and given what he\u2019s accomplished, but there is something inside of him that wants to keep going down that journey. So that\u2019s something I\u2019ve always been kind of astounded by.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>What does that mean, Kim, can you explain more? What does that mean?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Kimberly Manns: <\/b>To me, it\u2019s the courage to look within and say, what am I responsible for in this moment? It\u2019s saying there might be something on the outside that\u2019s causing my reaction, but there, it\u2019s mirroring something internally that, if I dig deep enough and I love hard enough, will stop reacting. I will get enough spaciousness to be able to offer love not only to ourselves but to others. And that\u2019s really what we\u2019re trying to get to, is enough space inside of ourselves to where, as Tony says, we have nothing left to defend. And so what people get from us is the core Self as a reflection. So they\u2019re able to get to love and compassion and courage from within us to support themselves.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tony Schwartz: <\/b>Yeah. And so I\u2019ll give you a little bit of mine, which is a lot of similarity to Kim\u2019s. She used the word responsibility. The other word that occurs to me is ownership. Are you willing to own it? Are you willing to own all of it? The beautiful and the ugly, the good, the bad, and the whatever the phrase is. So ownership, which as I\u2019ve said and as she\u2019s now said, is an act of courage. Because it doesn\u2019t feel comfortable a lot of the time to own. It is such a big part of it.<\/span><\/p>\n

The other part that I think is actually being able to step past your own stuff. So it sounds ironic when we\u2019ve been talking all about dealing with your stuff, but ultimately it has to have a higher purpose. Ultimately, at this stage in my life, I\u2019m more acutely aware than I have ever been that really it comes down to what am I, how am I adding value in the world?<\/span><\/p>\n

And it doesn\u2019t mean I have a measuring stick that says, if I\u2019m not adding this much, it\u2019s not OK. It means is my intent, my core intent, that I wake up in the morning committed to try to add value in the world. And my way to add value in the world is to share this knowledge about reckoning. There are lots of ways to be of service in the world, but in the absence of it, what you are missing from the ingredients you need to live at the best and highest level, you\u2019re missing meaning. Because I don\u2019t have the question, Tami, when I wake up in the morning, why am I here? I got it. I know why I am here. And it\u2019s not about me.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>I\u2019ve been speaking with Tony Schwartz and Kimberly Manns. They\u2019ve joined together, and the effort and earned net of their work together is <\/span>The Reckoning<\/span><\/i> itself as they teach about the reckoning. It\u2019s so beautiful how you can feel that in the audio teaching series that you\u2019ve created, <\/span>The Reckoning: Why Are You Who You Are and Who Can You Become?<\/span><\/i> It\u2019s a beautiful seven-session audio series. Thank you both so much for your deep commitment to be of service and to be true. Thank you.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And if you\u2019d like to watch <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> on video and participate in after-the-show Q&A conversations with featured presenters and have the chance to ask your questions, come join us on Sounds True One, a new membership community that features premium shows, live classes, and community events. Let\u2019s learn and grow together. Come join us at join.soundstrue.com. Sounds True: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-20157","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nThe Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More - Transcript<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdo\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More - Transcript\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdo\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Sounds True\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"39 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/\",\"name\":\"The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More - Transcript\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2023-06-02T19:33:48+00:00\",\"description\":\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdo\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Transcripts\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":3,\"name\":\"The Reckoning: Seeing More and Feeling More\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/\",\"name\":\"Sounds True\",\"description\":\"\",\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#organization\"},\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Organization\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#organization\",\"name\":\"Sounds True\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/\",\"logo\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/soundstrue-logo-footer-color.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/soundstrue-logo-footer-color.png\",\"width\":1035,\"height\":235,\"caption\":\"Sounds True\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\"}}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More - Transcript","description":"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdo","robots":{"index":"noindex","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More - Transcript","og_description":"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdo","og_url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/","og_site_name":"Sounds True","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Est. reading time":"39 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/","url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/","name":"The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More - Transcript","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#website"},"datePublished":"2023-06-02T19:33:48+00:00","description":"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with The Reckoning Seeing More And Feeling More. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdo","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-reckoning-seeing-more-and-feeling-more\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Transcripts","item":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":3,"name":"The Reckoning: Seeing More and Feeling More"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/","name":"Sounds True","description":"","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#organization","name":"Sounds True","url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/soundstrue-logo-footer-color.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/soundstrue-logo-footer-color.png","width":1035,"height":235,"caption":"Sounds True"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"}}]}},"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/transcript\/20157","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/transcript"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/transcript"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=20157"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}