{"id":20519,"date":"2023-12-20T09:05:14","date_gmt":"2023-12-20T16:05:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=20519"},"modified":"2023-12-20T09:05:14","modified_gmt":"2023-12-20T16:05:14","slug":"being-an-artist-for-the-earth","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/being-an-artist-for-the-earth\/","title":{"rendered":"Being an Artist for the Earth"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon:<\/b> Hello, friends. My name\u2019s Tami Simon, and I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True, and I want to welcome you to the Sounds True podcast, <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I also want to take a moment to introduce you to Sounds True\u2019s new membership community and digital platform. It\u2019s called Sounds True One. Sounds True One features original premium transformational docuseries, community events, classes to start your day and relax in the evening, special weekly live shows, including a video version of <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> with an aftershow community question-and-answer session with featured guests. I hope you\u2019ll come join us, explore, come have fun with us, and connect with others. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I also want to take a moment and introduce you to the Sounds True Foundation, our nonprofit that creates equitable access to transformational tools and teachings. You can learn more at SoundsTrueFoundation.org. And in advance, thank you for your support.<\/span><\/p>\n

Hello, friends. I am so pleased that in this episode of <\/span>Insights at the Edge <\/span><\/i>my guest is Jacqueline Suskin. Jacqueline Suskin has been working as a professional poet since 2009. She\u2019s the creator of Poem Store, which is this very interesting improvisational\u2014I\u2019ll call it entrepreneurial\u2014form of poetry in the world. Are you ready for this? She\u2019s created more than 40,000\u2014yes, you heard that right\u201440,000 improvisational poems where people bring forward a theme, a topic, something they would like to have a poem in their life on. They pay what they want to pay, and Jacqueline comes up, believe it or not, with a new verse just for them in that moment. Poem Store. Her work has been profiled in the <\/span>New York Times<\/span><\/i>, the <\/span>Atlantic<\/span><\/i>, and <\/span>Yes!<\/span><\/i> magazine. She\u2019s the author of six books, including two books with Sounds True: <\/span>Every Day Is a Poem<\/span><\/i> and a new book\u2014it\u2019s called <\/span>A Year in Practice: Seasonal Rituals and Prompts to Awaken Cycles of Creative Expression<\/span><\/i>. Jacqueline, welcome.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Jacqueline Suskin:<\/b> Thank you. So good to be here.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Right here at the beginning, this notion of being a professional poet now for 14 years. Different people come up to me who are poets and they say, \u201cAre you interested in publishing my poetry?\u201d And I think, \u201cOh gosh, that\u2019s tough.\u201d \u201cAnd I want to be\u201d\u2014this is what they\u2019re saying to me\u2014\u201cI want to be a professional poet. I want to make a career out of my poetry. Tami, you\u2019re an interesting person with entrepreneurial instincts. How do I make it work?\u201d What would you say to people in that position?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> I\u2019d say that everything that\u2019s happened in my life that\u2019s created the path for my work to be successful in any way has actually just been based upon real human-to-human connection with friends or artistic community and a lot of experimentation, a lot of things that didn\u2019t work, a lot of paths that I followed that seemed interesting that then led to something else. And in the end I was published by a friend of a friend, or my work found its way into the world in these natural connections, as opposed to following some steps provided by an institution or something like that. And I think that is a really hard thing to describe to people. There isn\u2019t this recipe for being a professional poet. There maybe used to be, maybe if you followed sort of the university setting or the institution like that, that path might be spelled out for you in a little more direct way.<\/span><\/p>\n

But I definitely just let my own creative impulse be the guide and found myself, as you described, performing on the street or in public settings, writing poetry. And then interacting with people in such a deep capacity tended to lead to the next thing and the next thing, an appearance at a gallery or request to come to someone\u2019s bookstore or someone\u2019s home, even. And so a lot of what has happened in my life, which has led me to having all of these books published and all of these poems that I\u2019ve created, it\u2019s all come from me following this instinct of at least just being devoted to the craft of poetry, staying with it, studying it, reading tons of poetry, learning the process and practice of other poets who I love, and just letting the experiment be the guide.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I\u2019m curious about this\u2014I\u2019ll use my language here\u2014following these inner breadcrumbs, if you will. When do you know, \u201cOh, this is a breadcrumb I\u2019m going to follow. It has the right feeling or sense or this connection does. Or no, I don\u2019t think so\u201d?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> I think the word \u201cfeeling\u201d is definitely what I stick to in that. There\u2019s a feeling usually in my body that\u2019s excitement or even familiarity, something that I\u2019m like, \u201cOoh, that feels like something I\u2019d like to try.\u201d So it\u2019s also curiosity. There\u2019s an instinct there. If my curiosity is sparked, then I definitely lean in that direction. And I do think it\u2019s important to illuminate that it doesn\u2019t always work. It\u2019s not like just because I feel excited about something then it has this outcome exactly as I thought it would.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think that\u2019s probably at the heart of my advice around creative practice turning into profession is you don\u2019t really know what it will look like. I knew that I would always write poetry. I knew that I would always write books. It\u2019s just something I\u2019ve been doing since I was a child, but I didn\u2019t know that it would be my job and I didn\u2019t know it would continue to be my job even after it was my job for years and years.<\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s this kind of guesswork in it and a deep, deep trust. That\u2019s usually what I tell people is there\u2019s this trust that you can adhere to and that feeling in your body. And then if it doesn\u2019t work out, it was still probably very interesting. You probably met someone interesting, you tried to create something really interesting, and I think that\u2019s the thing I like to recognize in that.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Tell me about the creative spark that brought you to your new book, <\/span>A Year in Practice<\/span><\/i>. What was it that lit up inside you, and you\u2019re like, \u201cI got to follow this?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Well, I am an ecstatic Earth worshipper. That\u2019s how I identify. The Earth is my main muse. It\u2019s what guides me in all of my work. And I had been seeing a lot of artistic friends of mine and people, cohorts and colleagues, just all these people who I\u2019m inspired by talk about their practice. And often searching for a new method. And I know for myself in all of my years of being a poet, I\u2019ve consistently tried to recreate my practice in a way that allows me to show up to my desk or to my imagination with a newness or an excitement, or just something that feels grounded and reliable. And I don\u2019t want to have to constantly recreate it. The work of finding that rhythm can be really exhausting, and it can take away from the actual practice itself.<\/span><\/p>\n

I thought, well, what I would normally turn to in this is the Earth. The Earth is what always guides me. The Earth is what always gives me suggestions and inspiration, so why would it not show me how to do my practice? I found that each season actually did that very clearly, very directly. Here is how it feels energetically in winter to create things. Here is how it feels in the next season and the next season. And I thought, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t have to reinvent the wheel all the time.\u201d The Earth is constantly offering this suggestion, this guidance, and if I can remember to follow it, if I can remember to tune in to that and practice that attunement, then I don\u2019t have to constantly recreate what it is that I\u2019m trying to do with my practice and find my footing over and over again. I can just turn to this reliable source that also happens to give me tons of inspiration, but it gives me wisdom and guidance and this cadence that I can follow throughout the year.<\/span><\/p>\n

And if I get lost in my practice, if I don\u2019t exactly know what to do next, I just turn back to the season at hand and it\u2019s a guarantee that it will show me something. It will show me when to rest or when to try a little bit harder or when to gather up my resources or when to share things. And once I really looked at that, I thought, \u201cWell, this is something I need to share, because if so many people are questioning all the time how to adhere to an artistic practice, then this is an answer that\u2019s very accessible and free and available to all of us.\u201d So I wanted to create something that would encapsulate that and let people reflect on how that affects their own practice.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, you called yourself an \u201cecstatic Earth worshipper,\u201d and I read that you married the Earth when you were in your 20s, and I wanted to hear more about that. What does that mean you married the Earth? Did you have a ceremony? I mean, what happened?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> I think for me what that was was this idea that I symbolically\u2014well, first of all, I married a tree, which symbolized the Earth to me. But what I thought about that was is that my love and my devotion in everything that I do in this lifetime is connected to the Earth. It always comes back to the Earth. And this consistent love and this deep feeling of reverence is connected to the planet. And I am of this place. I am Earth itself. It\u2019s also sort of like a dedication to myself and my own feelings, and expressing that seemed, well, it was a very private experience, but then I started to write about it and share it because I thought, oh, this is just a good example of what devotion can look like and how\u2014I mean, one of my most favorite things about being human is that we get to make up our own meaning and our own rituals and our own symbols and let that charge us up.<\/span><\/p>\n

And my feeling of turning towards the Earth and saying, \u201cI\u2019m devoted to you. We\u2019re in union,\u201d was this sense of, for the rest of my life and everything that I make and everything that I work towards, the Earth will be the central point of that in my heart and my spirit. And that felt worthy of a ceremony to me.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, when I hear you say, \u201cI am Earth,\u201d I want to just take a moment and look at that more closely, because sometimes I think, \u201cWell look, we\u2019re nature.\u201d Obviously we\u2019re nature. We\u2019re not\u2014nature\u2019s not something out there that we\u2019re separate from. Sometimes when I hear the word \u201cEarth,\u201d I think of the dirt or something or the trees. And I think, \u201cWell, that includes the animals, and humans are animals.\u201d Anyway, I just want to know what it means to you when you say, \u201cI am Earth.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> I think I also mean, \u201cI am nature, and I am this planet, and I am of this place.\u201d So I think there\u2019s a disconnect that happens. We tend to forget that our bodies are the Earth, and we are affected in the same way that the Earth is affected. By all of our choices that affect the planet, we\u2019re also affecting ourselves. And so if there\u2019s exploration of self and tending to self\u2014which is often what happens through artistic practice; there\u2019s a lot of self-exploration there\u2014we are also then able to tend to the Earth more and remember the Earth more. And I think remembering that we exist on this planet in this time is something that seems really simple when you say it out loud. Just remember you exist on the planet Earth. The planet Earth exists.<\/span><\/p>\n

But I actually find that there are so many distractions from that, and there are so many things that just come up in daily life that don\u2019t really allow us to remember that and connect with that. And so when I say, \u201cI am the Earth,\u201d it\u2019s me remembering this deep connection. And in that remembrance then I can also tune myself to whatever that connection is offering me, which is usually some deep wisdom and guidance. But if I forget that I am married to the Earth or if I forget that I am the Earth itself, I might forget to listen to it. So it\u2019s a bond I think of, and that similarity or that thread helps me just stay grounded in the bond.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, this may sound like I\u2019m taking us off on a tangent\u2014and I really don\u2019t want to, and I\u2019m going to be fast about it\u2014which is at one point many years ago, it was probably a decade ago, I interviewed a gentleman named Jos\u00e9 Arg\u00fcelles who was very committed to the lunar calendar. And he was like, \u201cTami, if we all operated according to a 13-month lunar calendar instead of a Roman calendar, everything would be different. Our sense of being connected to the cycles and rhythms of nature, instead of this superimposition where we have a leap year that confuses everybody.\u201d Anyway, and I was like, \u201cWell look, that\u2019s not going to happen. We\u2019re not going to suddenly shift, so this isn\u2019t very practical.\u201d And he was like, \u201cWell, you should have a lunar calendar along with keeping track of things on the Roman calendar and see how it changes you.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And so in reading <\/span>A Year in Practice<\/span><\/i> and in seeing the emphasis that you\u2019ve put on us seeing our own rhythms in relationship to the rhythms of the seasons, I thought of this and I thought of how in a way it\u2019s just like we\u2019re out of sync. We\u2019re out of sync. I mean, we don\u2019t necessarily have our work schedules coinciding with the seasonal calendar, maybe if you\u2019re a poet or an artist or someone who\u2019s not in a kind of job where you take your two-week vacation when it\u2019s not seasonally placed necessarily. So I just wonder what you have to say about that, in a way, what you\u2019re talking about in terms of connecting with the seasons, on the one hand it seems obvious, and on the other hand it\u2019s so far away from how we live.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> I love that example. That\u2019s exactly what I was thinking of while writing this book is that there are these incredible rhythms in place that are natural, and they\u2019re inherent in us. Even if we\u2019re disconnected from them, even if we don\u2019t ever think about the lunar cycle, we\u2019re affected by it. And we might never be conscious of that in our lifetime, but it\u2019s there for us. And so even if our jobs don\u2019t align us with the ability to\u2014obviously in winter I can\u2019t just hole up and go in a cave, even though I would love to, and I have done long retreats in the winter, because I find that\u2019s what works well for my practice\u2014I still am interested in utilizing whatever little tiny aspect of that that I can in my daily life. And that is what I tried to put into the book, which is these really accessible tools that you can at least touch upon, and they might realign you or give you the chance to tune back in to something you\u2019ve been forgetting.<\/span><\/p>\n

And even just feeling that for a moment or allowing yourself to try to play around with it or experiment with it can open up this whole new understanding, which I love that example of the lunar calendar. It\u2019s like, if you did have a chance to do that, what would happen? And I think anything that gives us a framework\u2014we\u2019re always looking to these different modalities that help us feel better or transform or learn something new about ourselves or reset. I think anytime we give ourselves just a little opportunity to try on something like that, there\u2019s something in it that will work and that we can connect with, and that will further our practice.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And as I\u2019ve been talking about all of this, I\u2019ve been thinking about the word \u201cpractice,\u201d and part of it applies to practice as an artist, but part of it just applies to the practice of living and trying to live in a way that feels better or feels more in touch with what you\u2019re really going for or hoping. And there\u2019s this practice of just living daily life that I think requires this kind of information. And when it\u2019s natural, when it comes from just the way that the Earth and the moon and the stars and the sun work, I think there\u2019s something in that that feels really liberating. Like, oh, you can practice embodying what you actually are just tuned in to that, instead of having to buy a bunch of things, or try out some complete framework of a modality that is just seemingly human. There\u2019s stuff that\u2019s just alive in you, and then we\u2019re reminded of it, and then we can try it out.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> In <\/span>A Year in Practice<\/span><\/i> you devote each section, four major sections of the book, to the seasons. And I hear that you wrote the book while you were in each season. And I wonder if you could talk about each season, because you write to each season as a muse, as an active muse in the writing of <\/span>A Year in Practice<\/span><\/i>, and here if you would speak to each season in its muse-like form?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Yeah, I felt so inspired by the fact that that lined up that way, that I was able to write the book in sync with these seasons and not\u2014I\u2019ve lived in places where seasons are not as intense or clear. I live in Detroit now, where the seasons are very stark. And you can tell it\u2019s winter; you can tell when it\u2019s spring. But I lived in a place\u2014I lived in LA for six years where those seasons are so much more nuanced. But still that energy, that muse of each season, whether it\u2019s nuanced or in your face, is I found in researching and studying while this book was coming out of me was they\u2019re all the same. They\u2019re all steady, very steady.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And winter is just constant with its ask for introspection. It asks you to dial it down, to downshift, to go inward. And that muse really suggests to me, \u201cTry to find moments to retreat within yourself. Don\u2019t worry about outcome; don\u2019t worry about output. Just worry about your imagination, your inner landscape. What does it have for you?\u201d There\u2019s probably so much there that in other seasons you don\u2019t get to see or witness.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And then spring comes, and it\u2019s chaotic and frantic, and it requires great care to transition into it, great care to enter into it, which is something I discovered while writing this. I don\u2019t think I had fully realized how intense spring is and how grating and harsh it is with this exposure and this coming out of the darkness into the light. There are lots of points in the book where I suggest make sure to tend to these transitional times. Because then once spring takes hold, the muse is rebirthed and plentiful energy, and it\u2019s vibrant and beautiful and so giving.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And then it transitions into summer, which is just really communal, togetherness, sharing. It\u2019s a time where people want to be out and fully out. Spring wavers back and forth for a while. It\u2019s like how you get used to coming out. And then in summer you\u2019re just out, you\u2019re in the sun, you\u2019re reviving, you\u2019re soaking up not only that feeling of the actual weather or the season, but of other people, of togetherness and how that charges us in our artistic practice, being in community.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And then fall comes, and we start winding it down again. We start coming back, we collect our reserves, we start gathering, we start seeing, \u201cOK, what\u2019s everything that I\u2019ve learned over these last few months? What will I take with me into my den?\u201d I don\u2019t have a lot of room in winter to process a million things, so maybe now I make my decisions of what will I process and what will I take into this next season of introspection? And then it goes again.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Tell me a bit about the use of this word \u201cmuse,\u201d what it means to you that the seasons were as muses?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Yeah, I think for me there\u2019s a few different levels of what a muse is, and the initial muse is the muse of inspiration\u2014the muse that brings a feeling or an idea, or something that you want to let pass through you. And then there\u2019s another phase of that, which is the editing muse, and I talk about this a lot is just this idea of how sacred it is to then come back to whatever that first initial offering was and revise it and rework it and commune with it. And I think the feeling of the word \u201cmuse\u201d for me is this acknowledgement of something outside of myself that\u2019s informing me. And even though I am it also, which we talked about this, I am also the Earth, but the Earth is full of other beings and other information and sensory offerings and all of these deliveries, all of this information. To me that\u2019s a muse. That\u2019s a word that kind encapsulates whatever it is that\u2019s giving to me.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> You have these interesting prompts from the planet that you start each section, each season with. What is the natural world up to right now? How does it include me? How is it my mirror? Tell us a little bit more about how you sat with whatever was happening during the season as a mirror to your own process?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> I really make myself go outside every day. That\u2019s a huge\u2014a lot of people will ask, \u201cHow do you stay connected to that?\u201d And I have a simple answer, which is I go outside. But in the midst of going outside, I do try to answer questions like that. \u201cWhat is the rest of the Earth doing right now? What is it offering me, and how do I listen to it?\u201d And I think that the prompts from the planet really came to this. I got clear on that because I thought each season is offering something particular. Each season is offering a different prompt, a different thing for me to tune in to, and what the answer to that will be different for everyone. The answer to that will be unique for each person who answers the prompt.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And I thought that was what was an important through line in this book, that the season is asking you to turn towards this self-reflection or something in your own personal practice, and that will look so different for everyone. It\u2019s not a prescriptive book. It\u2019s not like, \u201cIf you do this, then this will happen.\u201d It\u2019s full of suggestions from the Earth. And then each person\u2019s response is going to be their own and unique, and it will give them information about how to proceed with their practice, what nurtures them, what guides them through this time of the year and what doesn\u2019t, what doesn\u2019t work for them. What do they need to turn off or set a boundary with.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> It\u2019s interesting that you started by responding by saying, \u201cI go outside every day.\u201d Because for whatever reason, what I\u2019m feeling into in this conversation is how I think a lot of people aren\u2019t going outside every day. They\u2019re either in an air-conditioned or heated home or car or elevator, or not having a lot of experience. And I myself have placed myself where I\u2019m living very much in a natural environment, because it\u2019s so important to me. But I also feel in touch with spending a whole lot of time in indoor spaces and being on a computer and seeing what artificial intelligence can do for our future and being completely out of touch with going outside every day. And it\u2019s almost like, I don\u2019t know, as we\u2019re talking, it\u2019s almost like I feel like we have these different world spheres happening where there\u2019s a bunch of people who might be like, \u201cJacqueline, what are you talking about? Connecting\u2014I mean, that\u2019s like, what world? I live in an urban environment. I\u2019m not observing these kinds of subtleties in nature on a daily basis.\u201d Anyway, I wonder how you see that, this notion of people living in different world spheres?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Yeah, I mean, I\u2019ve experienced both of those worlds. I live in Detroit. I live in an urban environment, and I do think that a lot of folks probably don\u2019t recognize a connection to the Earth in the way that I\u2019m talking about. And as I\u2019ve been living here, I\u2019ve been working in schools and helping kids with poetry projects that are tuned to the natural world, getting them to write about their feelings and their ideas about the natural world. And these are kids who have grown up in an urban environment. And it is just right there under the surface. You give them one moment to think about it, to recognize it, to listen to me talk about it for five minutes, and then their hands go up. They have things that they want to say about what they\u2019ve noticed, what exists in their front yard, what kind of animals they\u2019ve seen, what birds are flying around, and how that makes them feel.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think there\u2019s been something in that practice of going into the classroom that has shown me this sense of, even if there are people who initially maybe on the surface are like, \u201cWell, I don\u2019t connect with this. I don\u2019t have time for this. This is not what I do.\u201d I really have this deep belief that it\u2019s not that far under their consciousness. It\u2019s right there. It\u2019s right on\u2014it\u2019s not even subconscious even sometimes. It\u2019s just there\u2019s no room for it to come out in their daily life. There\u2019s no activity that suggests that they should go outside and look around. And obviously, that\u2019s a very simplified version of what they could do. But I think that\u2019s part of what my hope is with this book is creating this sort of toolkit for remembering to do that. And doing it in whatever way you can.<\/span><\/p>\n

And this circles back to this idea that your body is also the Earth. And so there are forces that often get in the way of our embodiment. And what happens when even maybe you can\u2019t go outside during the day, but you can check in with your body and your breath and what even that gives you in the name of nature or a natural connection to the Earth. And I think there\u2019s just all these different levels of that. And I love the idea of someone being in the position where they\u2019re like, \u201cI\u2019ve never thought about this before, but now I am. Now I\u2019m thinking about it.\u201d Now I\u2019m working with these students who probably haven\u2019t written a poem about nature ever before, but then now they have, and what will that do for their lives?<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think that is the thing that we have to illuminate and that a lot of artists and writers and people who care about the Earth are trying to illuminate, which is just that there is a way in. There is a reward in it also. It\u2019s a big reward to connect with the Earth. What happens to you when you connect with the Earth, there\u2019s a deep reward in that. And I think trying to show that and return to that in my work is really important to me.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> \u201cBeing an artist for the Earth\u201d was a phrase I wrote down as I was reading <\/span>A Year in Practice<\/span><\/i> and tuning in to you. And I thought, \u201cThat\u2019s what Jacqueline is. She\u2019s an artist for the Earth.\u201d And I wonder when you\u2019re working with kids, how do you help them\u2014because I think this will help all of us just peel back a couple of layers\u2014as they start to approach their first Earth-inspired poem?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Yeah, it\u2019s usually sensory based. That\u2019s the easiest way in is I ask them to connect with any of their five senses, any of their many senses. Some of them would identify other senses that they have, but any sort of sensorial input that feels like it\u2019s connected to the Earth. And that\u2019s usually their entry point. It\u2019s like a gateway for them to be like, \u201cOh yeah, I really like the smell of grass clippings.\u201d And then they\u2019ll be interested in, \u201cAll right, because the grass grows and how does it grow?\u201d And then they\u2019ll get into the whole idea of this growth cycle and what happens when you cut the grass, and there\u2019s always a little entry point like that. Again, it suggests that all of the inspiration is right there, and they just need one thing to lead them to it. And usually it\u2019s their senses.<\/span><\/p>\n

Usually it\u2019s a memory or something like that, something that was enjoyable or even something that was scary, like a big storm or something like that. A thing that gets lodged in you where you think, \u201cOh, I\u2019ve recognized the Earth.\u201d And there\u2019s so much that comes from just that moment of recognition.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, you recently won some type of a Detroit poetry contest for poems related to climate justice, climate health. I wonder if you can share the poem with us that won that award?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Yeah, I\u2019d love to. It\u2019s called \u201cTime.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

We are gone in ourselves.<\/span><\/p>\n

One second we try and avoid<\/span><\/p>\n

knocking down the spider\u2019s web,<\/span><\/p>\n

only to walk right through it<\/span><\/p>\n

a minute later, unnoticed.<\/span><\/p>\n

We are cut like the melon, made of mush,<\/span><\/p>\n

drowning in the sweet, thick summer stick<\/span><\/p>\n

of the mind that keeps churning.<\/span><\/p>\n

The plants never stop singing directions.<\/span><\/p>\n

But oh the distance from hearing<\/span><\/p>\n

to listening is measured like fermentation\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

the need of the dark cold waiting, added spice,<\/span><\/p>\n

and suddenly the bubbling mess of delight<\/span><\/p>\n

comes into perfection for us to taste.<\/span><\/p>\n

We worked for it, with it, and against it.<\/span><\/p>\n

We bite down on the rolling swell<\/span><\/p>\n

of our limitlessness and cry. I cry before<\/span><\/p>\n

I swallow. I think again on how long<\/span><\/p>\n

it took us to see the truth and know<\/span><\/p>\n

it\u2019ll all burn up before we can apply the lesson.<\/span><\/p>\n

But some magic lingers. Something good<\/span><\/p>\n

carries on like a braid full of seeds,<\/span><\/p>\n

buried deep in the darkest dirt.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> That poem I think illustrates something that I\u2019d love for you to talk about that I read is important to you, which is this balance between hope and hopelessness. And how you bring that into your work with kids when they\u2019re writing poems and how you embody that in your own writing. How do you see that balance?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Yeah, I think that we live in a world full of so much brutality, and we\u2019re constantly witnessing so much darkness, so much pain. And yet at the same time there\u2019s so much beauty and there\u2019s so much inspiration. And humans are just constantly trying to keep going and even thrilled by the chance. We\u2019re always awestruck, which I love the word \u201cawe\u201d because it involves fear. And it\u2019s not just this simple \u201cif you\u2019re hopeful, you\u2019re hopeful\u201d or \u201cif you\u2019re hopeless, you\u2019re hopeless.\u201d It\u2019s more of the balance between both of those things and how I can actually feel the complexity of hope and hopelessness at the exact same time. And it\u2019s actually important for my mental health to hold both. If I tried to deny all the hopeless feelings that come up during a day just to remain hopeful, I actually think it might diminish the power of that hope.<\/span><\/p>\n

But if I do vice versa and just sink into my hopelessness, I don\u2019t think I would be able to achieve any sense of light or brightness. I think of that when I think of what\u2019s happening with the planet. And how this poem talks about we can see our expansiveness, we know how limitless we are, we know how to solve so many of the issues that face us and our planet. But there is so much in the way of that, and it\u2019s this kind of vacillation between, well, we might as well try and something good usually survives. That\u2019s what happens. That\u2019s what\u2019s happened throughout history. And we can believe in that, and that even can be a piece of hope. And to me it\u2019s this sense of, yeah, there might be a really dark end of this road that will be really hard to stomach and will be really grief-stricken and horrible, but and there will always be something beautiful and growing and striving, because that\u2019s how life works.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think if we get to reframe our hopelessness in certain moments and add some hope and get to go between the two, we actually get new ideas of what that end could be. And that\u2019s what I\u2019m most interested in is, and especially in the realm of being an artist of like, what if you let yourself imagine beyond just the block of hopelessness? And if it could be something bright and new, what would it look like? And a lot of times throughout history those imaginings are the things that push us all forward and keep us going. I think that that balance is really nourishing for me.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Throughout <\/span>A Year in Practice<\/span><\/i> you bring in the work of poets you love. And I wonder, for you, what is the sacred function of the poet? Your love of poets in your life, and then of course now what you\u2019re bringing to other people?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> I think what always happens to me, when I read a poem that really moves me, I think the heart of what\u2019s happening there is either I\u2019m reflecting and feeling a deep affirmation like, \u201cOh, this other person feels what I feel, and they took the time to put it into words.\u201d And there\u2019s a communion happening there. They\u2019re reflecting something back to me, and I\u2019m seeing myself in it. And that feels like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m part of something bigger. I\u2019m not alone. It\u2019s not just me in my space thinking and feeling these things. Here\u2019s another person speaking to me through the page, and they crafted this perfect way of saying it, took time to make sure they said it.\u201d It\u2019s just so loving, I think, to take so much time with language like that.<\/span><\/p>\n

And equally, I think there\u2019s this sense of there are these huge things that we want to say. The human experience goes from this micro to macro all the time, and that can be really overwhelming. And I feel like a poet steps in and is like, \u201cLet me just condense that for you and let me make it in a concise, digestible, accessible package.\u201d And sometimes it might be esoteric and strange; sometimes it might be not as accessible as other times. I like all the poems, but I think that at the heart of poems that work really well for very many people, what\u2019s happening is there is work that was done there to take this macro and micro and balance that and offer it up in a way that you can read it and think, \u201cOK, that\u2019s right. I\u2019ve accessed the heart of whatever that subject matter is here. And in not too many words, it didn\u2019t take too much of my time. It soothed me or it inspired me or gave me affirmation, and now I feel like I understand it or myself a little bit better.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think that that is just so needed in our world. And that, I mean, I think poetry is this ancient craft. It\u2019s this ancient old, old way of trying to talk about the deepest feelings, the deepest experiences, but in a more condensed way so that it maybe is delivered right to the heart or the spirit.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> When people ask you, they\u2019ll say, \u201cWhat season? What are you, Jacqueline? Which season do you relate to the most?\u201d It\u2019s kind of whatever when people say, \u201cWhat vegetable are you?\u201d or whatever. What do you say in terms of the seasons?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Oh yeah, winter is definitely my favorite season. The winter section of the book is the longest, and I think that that\u2019s true because I love what happens to my practice in that season. I love the slowing down, and after writing over 40,000 poems and all of these books over all the years, there\u2019s been so much speed and so much effort, and that there is a season that allows me to find that quiet and that slower pace and that I feel like the Earth is saying, \u201cYes, you are allowed to downshift. You are meant to do that right now.\u201d And so that really resonates with me, and it\u2019s really helpful for me to kind of recognize that I love that and I love the solitude of that, and I\u2019m allowed to give that to myself. And I think feeling that connection and having that be the longest part of the book shows there are all these practices that I had to offer in that section that I\u2019ve turned to again and again to restore myself.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I had a feeling you were a winter person based on the fact that it was the longest section in the book. And also I noticed the emphasis on the healing power of rest, and I thought so many of us are feeling that, especially at this time, that we need the medicine of winter right now. And I wonder what your thoughts are about that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Yeah, I think that there\u2019s a great reckoning happening in our society and in our world about how much we are expected to output and how much productivity has become synonymous with our worth as beings. And that this sort of slowing down and this idea of focusing on rest and the healing quality that it offers is really\u2014it\u2019s in step with that reckoning of thinking, \u201cWow, I\u2019m allowed to not always be making something. I have the permission that I\u2019m giving myself to just not for a while.\u201d And what does that look like and how does that translate into, \u201cYeah, but I still need to work, and I still need to make money and put food on the table and pay my rent,\u201d but how can I shift my approach to what I need and what I want and what I\u2019ve been taught and what is actually possible?<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think there\u2019s a lot of those questions that get answered in that space of silence and stillness and solitude, or just introspection in general where you can kind of reframe like, \u201cMaybe I don\u2019t need to constantly put this pressure on myself to feel like I should be doing more. Maybe I\u2019m doing just enough, and maybe there are times in the year where I can literally do nothing, and that that\u2019s also OK.\u201d And I think those questions are really important, and I think it would really benefit us to answer those questions, because I think we\u2019ll all kind of find our own rhythm with that, and it\u2019ll take everyone a different amount of time, and there\u2019ll be a different approach to sort of reframing. But I think once that happens\u2014and it is happening. I can see it happening. It\u2019s definitely part of our collective conversation, like this idea of rest and the importance of it and how it relates to so many issues that are happening in our world. I think that once people give themselves even a little bit of that, so much will be revealed.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> You ask this, I think, provocative question in <\/span>A Year in Practice<\/span><\/i> when we know we need more rest. You write, \u201cIt can be helpful to clarify what your intentions are for resting.\u201d And I thought, \u201cHuh, that\u2019s useful. That\u2019s an interesting idea.\u201d How did that occur to you?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Well, sometimes I think we think, we\u2019re just like, rest. Just take it easy, relax. And that actually can be really vague and hard to approach, especially for people who are like, \u201cGo, go, go, make, make, make,\u201d and who thrive in that fast-paced, which a lot of people I know really just love to be in the high gear all the time. I think that the idea of checking in with your intention behind rest could look different for everyone. For me, sometimes it looks like I can tell my body needs to rest, so that\u2019s way more obvious. But sometimes I\u2019m asking myself to put on the restful hat as an experiment. What will come from my allowance of a winter of introspection? Well, what will come from that usually is a great amount of subject matter and material to work with, so that when I do return in the spring full gusto and I\u2019m shifting upward again with my energy, I actually have done a lot of work. But it was very quiet work. It was restful work. It was different than it usually looks.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think that when I get clear on my intention of what to do in that space, it\u2019s usually aligned to something for my mind or something for my body or something for my spirit, and that I kind of weave in and out of those things throughout the book. Because that usually helps me clarify an intention like, am I trying to revive my mind right now? Am I trying to let myself be quiet so that I can come to clarity about something? Or am I tending to my body because it\u2019s tired from sitting at my desk for days and days working? Or is my spirit just asking for some space to resonate with whatever it resonates with? And how much happens when I actually allow myself to just notice that, instead of trying to do something else with it?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I think the insight I\u2019m having during this conversation is how much <\/span>A Year in Practice<\/span><\/i> and linking our own personal rhythm to the rhythms of the seasons is actually counter the status quo. It\u2019s actually totally against the push.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Which is so wild, because it\u2019s so natural and makes so much sense\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I know.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> \u2014and it\u2019s just totally not what we do.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I know. It\u2019s just so interesting that this could be so in a way contra where the culture is and is headed and is focused.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Yeah, it\u2019s funny. I feel like it can be seen as something that\u2019s so simple like, \u201cOh, just look at the seasons, and follow the guidance of the seasons.\u201d But actually when I\u2019m really sitting with it, and as I wrote it, I thought, \u201cThis is actually extremely radical. It\u2019s radical\u2014\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Exactly.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> \u201c\u2014to return to this, to remember this, to try to do this.\u201d And I think the way into it is I tried to offer prompts and rituals and things that are not seemingly radical, but the undercurrent is. And it\u2019s so wild to me that something that is so inherent and that lives in all of us would then have to be brought back in such a way that we\u2019re actually, \u201cThis is a radical return.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, one of my favorite poems is in the winter section of the book, \u201cDesert Bear,\u201d and I wonder if you can read that one, share that one with us?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> I\u2019d love to. \u201cDesert Bear.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

I know how to heal myself.<\/span><\/p>\n

In solitude, my routine<\/span><\/p>\n

of waking up with the sun,<\/span><\/p>\n

writing, and singing.<\/span><\/p>\n

To memorize the names of plants.<\/span><\/p>\n

To walk a familiar gait, softly<\/span><\/p>\n

as not to disturb the delicate<\/span><\/p>\n

growth that somehow withstands<\/span><\/p>\n

wind and heat, day on end.<\/span><\/p>\n

No one can see me.<\/span><\/p>\n

I take many deep breaths and never hurry.<\/span><\/p>\n

I sleep when I feel like sleeping.<\/span><\/p>\n

What comes out of me in this buoyed state<\/span><\/p>\n

is the voice of the sacred cosmos.<\/span><\/p>\n

I hear it start to build<\/span><\/p>\n

after three days in the desert.<\/span><\/p>\n

Deep warm sand and cool stone.<\/span><\/p>\n

They say there is an extensive aquifer<\/span><\/p>\n

below this landscape, wetness<\/span><\/p>\n

in the dark. There is a bear who lives<\/span><\/p>\n

in the boulders. She is me.<\/span><\/p>\n

Here, she is in her finest season.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I\u2014just to share personally here for a moment, Jacqueline\u2014went through a big change in my life. And my working statement was, \u201cLetting die what needs to die so what can be born can be born.\u201d And I thought of that as I was working through some of the prompts in <\/span>A Year in Practice<\/span><\/i>, because it seems like in the annual cycle there\u2019s this natural death and then new birth, new life that occurs, this winter kind of letting us go into deep hibernation. And I wonder how you see that in your own artistic rhythms, the hibernation and then coming back into new life?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Yeah, I really tried to bring death in a lot in this book into many of the seasons. Because I think that there can be this concept, especially of spring, we\u2019ll say, where you\u2019re like, \u201cOh, it\u2019s just all new life, and everything\u2019s charging out.\u201d But so many things die in the spring. There are so many attempts at life that are too soon, and then another freeze happens and all the blossoms are frozen and blown off the trees. The baby birds fall from their nest. And I talk about these things in the book of, like, there\u2019s all these deaths, and we shouldn\u2019t forget that there are deaths in every season and that that\u2019s OK, that it\u2019s part of it and actually that it\u2019s necessary, because not everything lives.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And when I think about that as a metaphor for creativity, I think of the fact that I\u2019m inundated with ideas and inspiration constantly. And I have this little thing that I wrote that\u2019s up on my bulletin board that just says, \u201cWe have to let so many noes come out of us all day long.\u201d We have to say no to an infinite amount of things all day long, which is funny because I\u2019m quite the yes person. And to consider how this works in winter, we fold inward and everything goes silent. In fall, we\u2019re surrounded by the trees shedding what they don\u2019t need, and that\u2019s a form of death and all. There\u2019s just a cyclical nature to becoming and then pause. I think death can be talked about in a negative way, but I also feel like it\u2019s so crucial for certain things to slough off or to be shed, and that even in summer we start shedding. It\u2019s like there\u2019s all these moments where we are asked to let go of so much.<\/span><\/p>\n

And that can be terrifying. It can be painful. It can be really confusing. But then what comes from that is all this newness and space for something else. And I think especially as a creative person, I\u2019m always very careful to welcome that space because I trust the process, and if something needs to go, it needs to go. And then what comes from that will be a new creation. And I don\u2019t always know what that will look like. I just get little glimpses of things. And we were talking before about the experiment of everything. And I think in experiments there\u2019s a lot of failure, and that feels like there\u2019s so much ripeness and so much bounty. Of course, there\u2019s going to be things that don\u2019t work. And that\u2019s something I think I\u2019ve worked to accept in my practice. And then also to see that there\u2019s some hopefulness in that. That, yeah, the things that don\u2019t work just make room for other things that might work way better.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I want to make sure right now that whoever is listening has something they can do directly after this conversation. Hard to know what hemisphere they\u2019re in, what season they might be listening to, what we\u2019re\u2014this conversation. Hard to know. What would be a generalized prompt so that people could get in touch for themselves right now with how they might be able to mirror something that\u2019s happening in the natural world?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> I think something that applies to all seasons and that I\u2019ve tried out in all seasons is a list-making practice where you can reassess whatever season it is.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

In winter maybe the thing you\u2019re reassessing is, what can I put away so that I have space to just rest and be? And there might be a list of things that you could consider. Maybe there\u2019s some projects that aren\u2019t finished that you can ask yourself to just write down and put on the shelf and come back to when the spring emerges.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Or if it\u2019s spring, I think it\u2019s really important to assess your own energy. Did you have a restful winter? Can you return to your practice full force? Or maybe you want to put down on paper some steps back in that feel a little bit more attuned to your actual energetic ability at the moment.<\/span><\/p>\n

And if it\u2019s summer, I think that there\u2019s a list that I love to suggest, which is just, who would you like to share your work with and how? Summer is this communal time, so maybe you can make a list of a few ways that you would want to share your work through this season and share yourself or whatever it is, your ideas, things that you\u2019d like to make, even. It doesn\u2019t have to be a finished product to share it, but maybe there\u2019s someone trusted or a few people you could think of or places that you could access in your community or you could share your work.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And then in fall the list should look like a list of resources. Like what do you need to gather for your season of introspection to come? Fall is all about stockpiling and figuring out is there a stack of journals that you\u2019d like to go through in the winter? Can you get them ready for yourself? Can you start the process of going through them and coding what it is you might want to pull from them? Or something like that with your practice\u2014is there a resource you can gather so that once you\u2019re in your winter cave, you can feel like you\u2019ve given yourself what you\u2019ve needed?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> When we had our previous conversation together with the publication of <\/span>Every Day Is a Poem<\/span><\/i>, I asked you at the end if you would be willing to share one of your improvisational poems right then and there. Because I\u2019m so impressed that you\u2019ve created 40,000 of them, plus. And I\u2019m wondering if we could end this conversation, if you\u2019d be willing, in the same way. And the request I would have would be a verse on this notion of the radicalness of actually tuning in to our body, to nature, to ourselves as the Earth, something so natural. And how is it that this seems like such a countercultural move when it\u2019s native to us?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> OK. Yeah, I\u2019m going to write on a piece of paper, and I won\u2019t get my typewriter out.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK, very good. Let\u2019s see what happens.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> OK. \u201cRadical Nature.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

To return is to conjure the root<\/span><\/p>\n

and the first seed. To call the body<\/span><\/p>\n

planetary, to name it star, tree, animal<\/span><\/p>\n

and note its infinite worth.<\/span><\/p>\n

To remake the world is to reveal it<\/span><\/p>\n

under the surface of skin, brilliant<\/span><\/p>\n

imagination we all carry, liberated<\/span><\/p>\n

and flowing now, without end.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Gorgeous. I\u2019ve been speaking with Jacqueline Suskin. She\u2019s the author of a new book. It\u2019s called <\/span>A Year in Practice: Seasonal Rituals and Prompts to Awaken Cycles of Creative Expression<\/span><\/i>. It\u2019s a glorious companion to a full year of introspection and creation. Jacqueline, thank you so much.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

JS:<\/b> Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And if you\u2019d like to watch <\/span>Insights at the Edge <\/span><\/i>on video and participate in the aftershow Q&A session with our guests, come join us on Sounds True One, a new membership community featuring award-winning original shows, live classes, community learning, guided meditations, and more with the leading wisdom teachers of our time. Use promo code PODCAST to get your first month free. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com. Sounds True: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-20519","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nBeing An Artist For The Earth - Transcript | Sounds True<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with Being An Artist For The Earth. 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