{"id":20576,"date":"2024-02-19T13:40:18","date_gmt":"2024-02-19T20:40:18","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=20576"},"modified":"2024-02-19T13:40:18","modified_gmt":"2024-02-19T20:40:18","slug":"dare-to-feel","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/dare-to-feel\/","title":{"rendered":"Dare to Feel"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon:<\/b> Hello, friends. My name\u2019s Tami Simon, and I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True. I want to welcome you to the Sounds True podcast, <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I also want to take a moment to introduce you to Sounds True\u2019s new membership community and digital platform. It\u2019s called Sounds True One. Sounds True One features original, premium, transformational docuseries, community events, classes to start your day and relax in the evening, special weekly live shows, including a video version of <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> with an after-show community question-and-answer session with featured guests. I hope you\u2019ll come join us, explore, come have fun with us, and connect with others. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I also want to take a moment and introduce you to the Sounds True Foundation, our nonprofit that creates equitable access to transformational tools and teachings. You can learn more at SoundsTrueFoundation.org. And in advance, thank you for your support.<\/span><\/p>\n

In this episode of <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>, my guest is Alexandra Roxo. Let me tell you a little bit about Alexandra. She\u2019s a bestselling author, artist, teacher, and mentor focused on feminine embodiment, sacred sexuality, and spiritual transformation. She\u2019s mentored thousands of women in embodying their full, magnificent self and seeing it as sacred and necessary medicine. Her path has taken her far and wide, making films, being featured in multiple TV appearances, including two seasons of Netflix\u2019s hit show <\/span>Too Hot to Handle<\/span><\/i>. She\u2019s also gone undercover in brothels in New York City to hear women\u2019s stories. She\u2019s worked in a truck stop strip club and more. With Sounds True, Alexandra Roxo wrote a book called <\/span>F*ck Like a Goddess<\/span><\/i> and now, a new book. It\u2019s called <\/span>Dare to Feel: The Transformational Path of the Heart<\/span><\/i>. Alexandra, welcome.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Alexandra Roxo:<\/b> Thank you so much for having me, Tami and the Sounds True community.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Tell me a little bit about your journey and decision to write about feelings and daring to feel, moving from the topics related to embodiment and sacred sexuality here into the free flow of feelings.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Well, I was thinking about this today, and it was something that was active in my own healing journey, which is looking at the healing and the awakening through the chakra system, if you\u2019re familiar with the yogic chakras. Not everybody is. But for reference, my first book dealt with some of the, let\u2019s say, problems or issues that can arise in the first, second, and third chakras.<\/span><\/p>\n

And it wasn\u2019t that I had set out to do that intentionally as my life\u2019s work and my soul\u2019s work and my own personal healing work. It just kind of happened like that. It\u2019s like, \u201cOK. I\u2019ve got to do some karmic cleanup, some healing in my own world around security, money, home, roots, and my ancestors, and then kind of moving up into my sexuality, and then into my empowerment.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And so those things felt really important. And my book, <\/span>F*ck Like a Goddess<\/span><\/i>, it felt like we have to deal with these wounds, these collective wounds around the body, around the sexuality, around our own roots and our relationship to who we are and how we feel safe in these bodies and in our worlds. And then it felt like, \u201cOh, now the work for me personally is in my heart.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And that has felt like a natural flow. I didn\u2019t plan it. My karma perhaps planned it, but maybe it\u2019s just how it goes for a lot of people, that once you feel empowered again or once you feel like you\u2019ve made certain steps in your own journey, then you kind of get to arrive to a new curriculum. And so this book has been about the heart. Though I do feel like a lot of emotions are sacral as well, but the emotions that I talk about in this book and the feelings and the sensations are relational. So they\u2019re really about intimacy, how we relate to our families, to our friends, to lovers.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so that felt like a really beautiful, deep thing for me to crunch into in the way that I teach. And so it\u2019s transformational in the sense that the book takes you through a journey where, through my stories, you get to go on a ride into your own stories, into the places in you where you have felt things, where emotions have come between you and someone, or the lack thereof, or your avoidance or hiding from them, or you\u2019re pretending, or all these themes that come forward in the book. And they\u2019re all centered in the heart, how we relate heart-to-heart to each other. And so, for me, that\u2019s been, in my life, what the next big, juicy bite into my own soul work has been.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>You talk about being a heart warrior. Tell me about the warriorship that has been required for you personally to fully inhabit, or the journey of fully inhabiting one\u2019s heart for you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah. And I do want to say that term \u201cheart warrior,\u201d I mean it metaphorically speaking. I don\u2019t mean like an actual war. And I think that that term was inspired by people like Pema Ch\u00f6dr\u00f6n and Ch\u00f6gyam Trungpa Rinpoche and kind of tantric Buddhist teachings around the heart. When I think of that heart warriorship of living with a broken-open heart, I look to my own personal studies of those teachers.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s something that Pema Ch\u00f6dr\u00f6n really beautifully teaches of how the path is living open, broken open, where we are feeling and we\u2019re relating to life through this openness. And so that has inspired me. In a sense, it\u2019s like it\u2019s living unsafe and loving unsafe. I say that with air quotes in a way, because I also mean\u2014I don\u2019t mean physical safety. I mean an emotional safety or spiritual safety. When we\u2019re open and our walls are down and our armor is down, emotionally and spiritually speaking, it feels and it can feel unsafe.<\/span><\/p>\n

So in my own personal life, I came to some of my own edges in intimacy, be it with my family, friends, or a partner, which I talk about stories around all of that in the book, where I had to face my own edges in how my heart was opening or not and what feelings were there. Was there shame preventing me from opening and arriving into intimacy? Was there fear? Was there actually an avoidance of joy, or whatever it was, that in my own heart was a closure, was a pattern of hiding or a mask?<\/span><\/p>\n

And because the book I write through a very artistic and spiritual lens, it\u2019s not a psychologizing of the heart-opening experience, which that language is so common, I think, nowadays for a lot of us, \u201cOh, can I look at my intimacy through the lens of\u2014.\u201d And the brilliant work of so many people, the lens of attachment or IFS, the family systems parts work, all of that, which I love.<\/span><\/p>\n

But this book, it demands of you to look through your stories and myths and the rich tapestry of your intimacy, and to feel like there\u2019s nothing wrong with you. There\u2019s nothing broken. There are things that you get to play with as your soul\u2019s work here. And I like the word \u201chealing,\u201d and it\u2019s not because there\u2019s something wrong with us.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so, for me, I had to do a lot of that heart healing. I had to do a lot of looking at my relationship to my parents and really having hard conversations, having moments of hard conversations with friends, looking at patterns in my intimacy in my romantic relationships, and looking at all of that as, \u201cIs there space for more openness here? Is there something here that I can de-armor or meet at a deeper edge in myself?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

So that heart warrior work means something different, I think, for every person, but I do think we all have it. We all have the edges in our heart, the places where our little heart wings close, and we\u2019re like, \u201cAnything but that. Anything but that conversation, or anything but that memory.\u201d Right? And then that, for us, is like, \u201cWell, where can we actually meet that difficult place inside ourselves?\u201d And so my stories are meant to help you meet your difficult places as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>OK. I\u2019m going to ask you a kind of challenging question, and it\u2019s because I am feeling it in the zeitgeist and particularly, I know, in our Sounds True community. Because we surveyed our membership community recently, and we said to them, \u201cWhen it comes to challenges of the heart, what\u2019s the hardest thing for you? Is it a sense of numbness? Is it a sense of helplessness? Is it heartbreak? Is it grief, rage?\u201d It wasn\u2019t any of those things.<\/span><\/p>\n

What it was was overwhelm, people feeling overwhelmed. And I thought to myself, \u201cHuh. Dare to feel, dare to feel more.\u201d I wonder if some people are like, \u201cGosh, the problem is not that I need to feel more. I don\u2019t know how to work with the overwhelming amount I\u2019m already feeling.\u201d So I wonder if you could just address that head-on right here at the beginning.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah. So this is a great question, because part of why we\u2019re overwhelmed and feeling overwhelmed is because we are intaking so much more information that is beyond our emotional processing. So our energy is going towards trying to feel the problems of the whole world instead of turning towards our beloved people in our lives and feeling a little bit more there, and going a little bit more deep there, or saying to them, \u201cHey, I need you. I\u2019m having a hard day.\u201d Risking rejection with the people that we love.<\/span><\/p>\n

So because we\u2019re so open to all of the news of this whole world and we\u2019re on our devices and we\u2019re taking it in and taking it in and taking it in, of course we\u2019re going to be overwhelmed. There have been studies that say that we are absolutely not biologically capable of taking all of that in. The problem is, because we\u2019re getting flooded because of these problems that we cannot solve in our day-to-day, then we get so blown out that the intimacy that we actually crave and the love and the belonging that comes from the people that are already in our lives, then we can\u2019t handle those moments.<\/span><\/p>\n

And this is a problem, because the amount of connection that we can receive with the people we love by being vulnerable, by showing up, by texting, \u201cHey, Tami, is there any way you can hop on the phone with me? I\u2019m having a rough day,\u201d or \u201cI could really use a friend.\u201d We don\u2019t have the capacity at times to really show up to those edges, because we\u2019re so far out with everything that we have taken in. We\u2019re trying to bite off these huge chunks in this world.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I read something recently. It was like, \u201cInstead of attempting to solve the problems of this world or to conceptualize or intellectualize or sit around and contemplate, what about if you just think about your neighborhood and the street you live on? What problems could you support solving there?\u201d And I have a story about this in my book about a dear friend of mine who has devoted so much of her life to making her neighborhood incredible, applying for grants, getting artists of all nationality and from different backgrounds to come and beautify and do festivals, and she\u2019s done potlucks with all these different types of bringing communities together.<\/span><\/p>\n

And that, to me, is like, \u201cOh, interesting. What if we look to our families and our immediate relationships to be putting our time and energy and love there, to meet edges there? Would we feel as overwhelmed?\u201d I personally think that the overwhelm is because of the amount of information we\u2019re getting about the world, about politics, all of it. It is incredibly overwhelming. What happens when we turn to the relationships around us that are reciprocal, that we can be met in, instead of being tuned in to that wide expanse via all of the different news and social media, et cetera?<\/span><\/p>\n

So I think that even though it can feel counterintuitive, like, \u201cI need to shut down my feeling. I need to numb out,\u201d it\u2019s more about discernment, discerning what comes in and through you. And that is its own practice. I learned that from Lama Tsultrim in some of her retreats that I went on. There\u2019s this red dakini, and she craves. She wants it all. She wants it all. She wants it all. And the practice is to sit and to discern what comes in and what stays out instead of being wide open, because that\u2019s what creates overwhelm.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Beautiful answer. And part of what I\u2019m hearing, and I just want to make sure that I\u2019m getting it as you\u2019re meaning it, is that when we\u2019re feeling overwhelmed, we can take the risk of reaching out for someone\u2019s hand or voice or connection with another person or with people that live near us, and that that action, in and of itself, is tremendously healing and enables us to be present in a more genuine way.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah. And get the thing that we really crave usually, which is to feel seen, to feel heard, to feel like we belong. But sometimes we\u2019re so blown out by all of the social media and the news and the this and the that and the modern to-do-list life that we lead, that we don\u2019t even have it in us to reach out to the people we love. And so we stay in this kind of comfortably numb place.<\/span><\/p>\n

And that, to me, that\u2019s a spiritual illness in a way. If we\u2019re just relating to each other from that comfortably numb place, that\u2019s like, \u201cWait a minute. Where could I create more depth and intimacy? How could I create more intimacy in this moment with the people I love?\u201d or \u201cAm I OK with just being at this kind of, \u2018I don\u2019t have it in me\u2019?\u201d Right? There\u2019s some moments where it\u2019s totally fine with the people we love to just be a little checked out or a little discombobulated or on our phones, but that\u2019s not a way to live a life. Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>I\u2019m going to take a risk now, which is I had to go to the dentist today. That\u2019s not the risk. The risk is that I\u2019m going to share this story, because I think that\u2019s part of what you\u2019re pointing to when you talk about taking risks of the heart. And so, for me here, I\u2019m going to share this little story. It was a small little thing that happened, blah, blah.<\/span><\/p>\n

But the woman who was the assistant reached down and put her hand on my hand, which was in my lap, while this 30-minute little procedure was happening. And I felt her hand, and I was like, \u201cOh my God, this is so beautiful and gorgeous and helpful, and what a terrific assistant she is.\u201d So I\u2019m just pointing that out as just something within the course of her work that she did that made such a huge difference.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>That makes my belly feel warm, because it reminds me that there are humans out there that are not afraid to nurture and to love and to take a risk. Because that\u2019s actually risky, because if you weren\u2019t open to that kind of touch in that moment, you could have been like, \u201cHey, why are you doing that?\u201d Right? Because that\u2019s another modern kind of problem, is we\u2019ve become so risk-averse and sometimes overly cautious about not wanting to say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing that we actually stop connecting.<\/span><\/p>\n

So whoever that person is, Goddess bless you for not being afraid to risk, because it\u2019s risky. It\u2019s risky to put some skin in the game with strangers or with people we love. It\u2019s even more risky with people we love to ask for something, to ask for a need to be met, or to do something kind of weird and playful with your beloved, and they might be like, \u201cWhat are you doing?\u201d or they might be like, their heart may just explode into a million stars because they\u2019re so delighted that you\u2019ve done that.<\/span><\/p>\n

And that\u2019s the thing. It\u2019s like, \u201cAre we still able to take those risks on behalf of humanity?\u201d That\u2019s a very human moment that happened at the dentist. But I think a lot of people are really averse to that, because it\u2019s scary. It\u2019s like we don\u2019t know how someone\u2019s going to react.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Now, I\u2019m going to ask you this question. It\u2019s because I want to try to tease apart something that I think is a little paradoxical in what you\u2019re describing, because we\u2019re talking about risks of the heart. And you use this word, are we willing to be \u201cunsafe\u201d? And that that\u2019s part of warriorship, is this willingness to be unsafe. And at the same time, I think so many people are seeking right now a sense of feeling safe in their nervous system. \u201cI just want to feel safe. There\u2019s so much uncertainty out there in the world. Things are so chaotic. I want to feel safe. And now Alexandra is recommending that I take risks and embrace unsafety.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah. So here\u2019s where we can kind of break it down. It\u2019s like, you need to create a baseline of safety, and that\u2019s part of the healing journey. So let\u2019s say, I mean, I\u2019m a person who grew up feeling chaos in my nervous system for different reasons, which I talk about in the book. So it\u2019s taken me years to create a bit of a baseline within myself of feeling safe in my own body.<\/span><\/p>\n

If I haven\u2019t done any of that for myself, then yeah, I\u2019m not going to be able to take that \u201cunsafe risk\u201d of opening my heart or putting my heart on the line for creating connection in my family or my community or in my relationship. And that\u2019s where I do think that it starts with us. Right? We have to do our own solo journey work, our own contemplation, and that\u2019s what we bring to then the relational space.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so I imagine a lot of the Sounds True community has had some sort of personal reflection on your own journey. But if you\u2019re new to it, you may go, \u201cYeah. Actually, I need to take a few years to just kind of dive into some of my own healing curriculum and material, and that\u2019s important before I can then put my heart on the line by showing up to my neighborhood meeting and suggesting that we do a potluck,\u201d or something like that.<\/span><\/p>\n

So it is paradoxical. That being said, I\u2019ve done so much nervous system work. I\u2019ve done so much healing work, and I still have tons of moments of feeling completely unsafe. I was just in New York City doing my book launch event, and it\u2019s loud and there\u2019s a car coming out of nowhere, and I have my three-month-old daughter, and I\u2019m thinking of her. And so I\u2019m on high guard.<\/span><\/p>\n

Those aren\u2019t going to be the moments that I\u2019m going to take other risks. Right? That\u2019s going to be a moment where I\u2019m creating a strong structure. I\u2019m tuned in to my breath. I\u2019m staying present in my body and physical experience. So that\u2019s not going to be the point that I then open wider. Right? But then when I\u2019m stabilized, I\u2019m grounded, let\u2019s say I\u2019m back in my hotel room, I\u2019m calm, I\u2019ve breathed, dah, dah, dah, then I\u2019m maybe having a conversation with someone I love and be able to say something like, \u201cUgh. You guys, I\u2019ve got to be honest with you. I felt really scared tonight,\u201d or whatever.<\/span><\/p>\n

And that might feel risky to share. But now, I\u2019m not saying that while I\u2019m, let\u2019s say, in the middle of a really chaotic moment. But I could also, and that\u2019s where we are multidimensional beings. We have a spiritual self. We have a mental self. We have a physical body. So my physical body might feel unsafe, which holds my nervous system, but then emotionally, I might be feeling something different. And this is where it gets a bit more nuanced on the journey. Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

We start to see ourselves as like, \u201cOh, I\u2019m a spiritual being, and I have a mental experience, and I have an emotional experience, and I have this all happening at once.\u201d And so it will feel paradoxical at times. It just will. I can be such a nervous\u2014today, I was walking my daughter in a place where there\u2019s alligators right over there, and I\u2019m like, \u201cJust breathe. Just breathe. Just breathe.\u201d But then emotionally, I can take bigger risks, and artistically. But somebody else can take bigger risks, let\u2019s say, physically.<\/span><\/p>\n

This book is about the emotional risks and the spiritual risk, the ones we take on behalf of our deeper transformation. So those I do feel like, and those do also run parallel to our nervous system because our emotions are a part of it. So it is multilayered. And only you can decide, Tami, when is a moment in life where it\u2019s like, \u201cYeah. I want to meet an edge right now. I want to meet a new edge in my intimacy. I want to be honest instead of holding it in. I want to be direct, because I\u2019m always indirect.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And so only you know whether it\u2019s the right time for you to meet that edge. I always say look at your patterns. If you\u2019re the person that is always doing A, B, C, what\u2019s the opposite? Maybe that\u2019s your edge. So yeah, it\u2019s complex. It\u2019s complex.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Well, this is great, Alexandra, for <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. And I\u2019m going to keep going here, because I like this multilayered approach and becoming subtle in how we\u2019re talking about some of these things. And when it comes to the heart, I think sometimes people think of their heart in an emotional way, the emotions that are\u2014they don\u2019t necessarily make a distinction or understand, \u201cWell, what\u2019s the spiritual heart that is also tracking but is at a different dimension than the emotional heart?\u201d And I\u2019m wondering how you understand that.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Well, I love how you just described it. You kind of almost answered it beautifully for me. But the emotions are connected to our physical body and our nervous system, and they can be a portal into that spiritual heart. And I think that there\u2019s a lot of mystics who wrote beautifully about this, who wrote deep, emotional poetry, passionate poetry. Some spiritual paths say no to passion. \u201cBye-bye. We don\u2019t want that. We want to calm the passion, and we want to calm the emotions.\u201d Right? And then there are other spiritual paths that say, \u201cNo, let\u2019s let the passion take us into our spiritual life.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

In a way, it could feel a bit more complex. I remember [the] great teacher Sally Kempton, who recently passed on, and I remember her\u2014it might have been in a workshop with her, it might have been written in one of her books or her classes that I attended\u2014but she said something like, \u201cThe tantric path is the one where we have the emotions and the sexuality, and this is all a part of our experience towards God or towards enlightenment or awakening.\u201d And she said something like, and I\u2019m not sure if this is verbatim, but that we needed to have meditated for quite a few years and learned to be in self-awareness before we touch those things and we use them as part of our path, because they can be tricky. It\u2019s tricky to use your emotions as a vehicle for awakening, because what if you get caught there? What if you just spiral out into a funnel of grief? Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

You have to have a certain amount of self-awareness and the ability to have a witness mindset at the same time. And this is where you have that sort of emotional-meets-spiritual experience, because you do need to have a moment where you\u2019re witnessing, \u201cWow, I have fallen into the depths of shame. I\u2019m [lying] on my bedroom floor crying right now. Wow, I\u2019m very curious. I\u2019m watching. I\u2019m feeling.\u201d And that\u2019s not always possible to have that little bit of distance between us and our emotions. This takes a lot of practice.<\/span><\/p>\n

So it\u2019s like, that spiritual understanding is the ability to hold some sort of a witness mindset and state based on some sort of a contemplative practice, usually, that then allows us to actually stay with the feeling, because when we\u2019re starting out on the path, we don\u2019t have that. So we really probably shouldn\u2019t really dive so deep into things, into our feelings, or into some of these human parts, which could kind of grab us.<\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s a reason that some spiritual paths are like, \u201cDon\u2019t do that.\u201d Right? There\u2019s too much energy there. Sexuality, emotions, you want to calm all of that. But on the path that you could call a more embodied path or a more tantric path, you\u2019re using those emotions as a vehicle to entry into a greater understanding of your humanity, of your understanding of God, Goddess, Divine, or a Oneness, or whatever you want to call it. And it\u2019s a practice.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sometimes I\u2019m just right back at square one, and I\u2019m like, \u201cI just totally got hijacked by my sadness, and I couldn\u2019t keep some sort of a center there.\u201d Right? So yeah, it\u2019s another part of the path of the heart that is nuanced, because your just straight-up emotional human experience is meeting that greater spiritual experience.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you can feel and experience your grief as a total portal into a spiritual state and total connect into all of humanity, it can be almost blissful, as weird as that may sound. And I know a lot of mystics and writers write about that, how an experience, say, like grief can be such an opening into and a connector to the Divine. But it\u2019s not always like that. Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Alexandra, can you share with me an example maybe from your own life where a difficult emotion was a portal, and put it under a magnifying glass, if you will? What happened such that it wasn\u2019t just a circling around with the emotion and feeling terrible, but that something opened and it was a gateway to a bigger sense of being?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah. I mean, I think the biggest one that I\u2019ve experienced that isn\u2019t in the book, because it kind of came after, and there are some experiences in the book where I dealt with deep pain, sadness, loss, shame that were portals into a deeper spiritual understanding. However, the one that has got me in the last few years has been my relationship with my beloved, my love, my life partner, Eli, who we have a child together now.<\/span><\/p>\n

And when we came together into our partnership, we really triggered each other. There was a lot that came up. And I say \u201ctrigger\u201d; it\u2019s kind of a colloquial term at this point. It means different things to different people. But we really created an opportunity for both of us to have a lot of shit, for lack of better words, from our past rise up, and some from our real early childhoods that I had never had rise up with anyone, which led me to believe that something in me felt safe enough to open and to feel some of the things from my early years that I had not felt, and boy, was that a whole experience.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, I have an incredible mentor, teacher, therapist, guide who I was working with at the time, who was helping me to see that I wasn\u2019t drowning, because there were some moments where I felt so just terrible, terrible, just like, \u201cWhat am I doing? How am I staying in this relationship when I feel this way?\u201d And because I had a great guide, she was like, \u201cWhat you\u2019re feeling\u2026\u201d I\u2019m going to say a funny kind of AA adage, even though I\u2019ve never been in AA, but I\u2019ve dated some AA people, which is, \u201cIf it\u2019s hysterical, it\u2019s historical.\u201d Some of the AA and Al-Anon adages, they\u2019re good. Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>No, it\u2019s great. It\u2019s very helpful. Right on. Right on.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>So I would say so many of my first ruptures in my relationship were hysterical. And so I knew they had to be historical. The amount of emotion that was arising in me was disproportionate to the rupture that was happening, and it made me feel like, \u201cWow, I must be really broken if this is happening. I must be really messed up. What\u2019s wrong with me, that here we\u2019re having this fight and I\u2019m feeling so bad? I\u2019m needing to close the door and go cry on the bathroom floor, and I want to run from this relationship,\u201d because I had never been met with that much presence, love, kindness, all of these things. I had never been met with that. It was very discombobulating for my system.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so I wanted to run quite a few times. And some of the emotions that came up when we did have fights were just like\u2014there were these voices inside, \u201cGet out of here. I knew this wasn\u2019t going to work. I told you, Alexandra. That kind of love that you want doesn\u2019t exist.\u201d And so those were all the voices that were trying to \u201ckeep me safe,\u201d because the more I opened to this person, the less safe I was emotionally.<\/span><\/p>\n

And it was a real journey. It was almost like the first two years of our relationship, we had some of these big, big ruptures where I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t know if we\u2019re going to make it through.\u201d And I stayed with it. I stayed with it, and I\u2019m so proud of myself that I did, because historically, I would have said, \u201cThis has gotten a little too hard, a little too crunchy, a little too heavy. I think it\u2019s just not meant to be.\u201d Because I had enough self-awareness to be like, \u201cThere\u2019s something here. Stay with it,\u201d because it was not abusive. Nothing was happening that was a real big red flag to leave the relationship, but because it was like, \u201cThis is actually for my growth.\u201d A part of me was tracking, \u201cThis is for my healing and growth.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And because I had a great guide. Super well-trained, amazing human who I say thank you to in the back of the book, who was\u2014she was helping me. So there were a few times where I was just like, \u201cAm I just dumb to stay in this suffering? I\u2019m suffering.\u201d She was like, \u201cNo, you\u2019re bringing something out of your unconscious, and it\u2019s really hard.\u201d And it\u2019s like that Carl Jung quote, \u201cThere is no coming to consciousness without pain,\u201d which I hate that that\u2019s the truth. I don\u2019t know. Maybe it\u2019s not true, but that\u2019s how I\u2019ve experienced some of these deeper things.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s like, the things that we\u2019ve repressed so deeply in our soma, in our psyches, that are now a part of our unconscious, when we do the work to call them forward, whether through intimacy, through meditation, through ayahuasca, whatever it is, when it comes up, it\u2019s a process. And some of the things I was touching around trusting love, trusting someone to be there for me, trusting someone to hold me emotionally, ooh, it was touching on some deep, deep places.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, man, I almost didn\u2019t make it through quite a few times. I was really wobbling in my boots, but we both did and we stayed with it, and we did some great healing work, made it to the other side, created a secure base in our relationship, which took a while, and then we made a family. And so we still have work to do, like I imagine every couple does, every good couple.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Sure. Well, it\u2019s a beautiful story, and I still want to try to, if you\u2019re OK with this, get into the experience in the moment where you\u2019re feeling a whole lot of\u2014I mean, \u201cdiscomfort\u201d isn\u2019t strong enough of a word.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>I\u2019m not quite sure what word to use.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Deep, deep sorrow. Deep sorrow.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Deep something-that-you-don\u2019t-want-to-feel.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>It could be sorrow. It could be rage. It could be all kinds of things.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>I\u2019m saying, yeah, in my case, it was deep sorrow. Yeah, yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Yeah. OK. And in that moment, there\u2019s maybe a little itty bit of awareness, but how do you make sure that that witness consciousness, as you described it, is there and that there\u2019s that capacity versus just like, \u201cI just feel this terrible thing\u201d? How do you amp up that light in the moment, or is that really what you\u2019re describing, such that it becomes a portal, an experiential portal in that moment?<\/span><\/p>\n

The way you described the story with your beloved, the beautiful story, was that there was sort of an arc of time and you hung in there. You had someone helping you. You had an instinct that this was going somewhere. And that\u2019s all really helpful, but I\u2019m trying to get into that actual\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR:<\/b> Yeah. OK, OK.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I\u2019m on the bathroom floor, Alexandra.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yup. I mean, I remember being at my altar, because when I would sometimes just feel like the total everything\u2019s crumbling around me, I would go sit at my altar. That\u2019s kind of what I do, and just cry to God, and just be like, \u201cWhy is this happening?\u201d And just the existential feeling\u2019s always arising of like, \u201cI knew it. I knew that no one could meet me, that no one could love me, that I would always be abandoned. I knew it.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And that\u2019s very much a parts work. That\u2019s a younger part of me that has that voice that was coming online at the time to heal. And what I want to say is that we don\u2019t always have the clarity, especially when a part is running the show in that moment. And so I hate to break it to people. You may have a few hours or a day where something is rising up to have a moment of healing, and that part takes over and you don\u2019t feel clarity.<\/span><\/p>\n

And maybe you open up a book and you read a poem by your favorite spiritual person or mystic or whatever, and you feel just a little light. Or maybe you have just enough in you to text a friend, \u201cI\u2019m drowning in it right now.\u201d And they say, \u201cI love you,\u201d and that brings just enough of your true essence back online. But maybe not. Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

So I like to think of it as, what are the guideposts that we put? I like to think of it as we\u2019re in a dark cave, and we know we have to go to this dark cave in our lives sometimes. Right? The Descent of Inanna, let\u2019s say, in the mythological sense. We have to go. What little things can we place in there to remind us of who we are when we\u2019re in it, when we\u2019re drowning in it? Is it sitting at the altar and lighting the candle? Is it, \u201cCan I reach out to one person who\u2019s going to remind me who I am, because right now, all I feel is abandoned, rejected, blah, blah, blah?\u201d Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

So for me, it\u2019s knowing that. And do I always have the resource, or did I in those moments, to reach out to say that one or two people who I would allow to see me at that level of pain? No. Sometimes I didn\u2019t. Sometimes I went to bed in just the gigantic crunch in that part inside that was just crying and crying, saying, \u201cI knew no one would love me.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

But usually, there\u2019s a moment where we can find just a little bit of ourself. Right? The problem is, we want to get rid of this so quickly that a lot of times, we\u2019ll numb in a way. We\u2019ll just get on with our life. We\u2019ll go work out. We\u2019ll dah, dah, dah, dah, dah. We have to function. So that then doesn\u2019t actually get the space to heal. So when we\u2019re ready for something to really have the space to heal, that\u2019s when actually allowing the emotions to rise is important, in my personal understanding through all of my study.<\/span><\/p>\n

I could, in any of those moments, just be like, \u201cAlexandra, pull yourself up by your bootstraps. Let\u2019s take a cold shower and get on with it.\u201d Right? I did that for years. Does that help heal? No. Does it help us function well and perhaps regulate again? Yes. But there are these moments where we have to enter almost a ceremony with ourself, a feeling. And in those moments, in those deep ceremonies that we have, whether it\u2019s a rupture with someone we love or a loss or something like that, what are the things in our personal practice that we\u2019ve already established that we can turn towards? Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

Is it sitting against a tree and breathing even when you feel that despair? Is it poetry? What is it that can just give you a little bit of a connect to yourself and a little bit of the courage to stay with it and stay curious. For me, to ask that little voice of that little girl, like, \u201cI hear you. Wow. Wow.\u201d Even if it\u2019s just a little self-awareness that\u2019s like, \u201cWow, I\u2019m really in it.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

So that\u2019s enough self-awareness, right, to be able to say to your partner, your therapist, your friend, yourself, \u201cWow, I\u2019m really in it.\u201d And that\u2019s self-awareness. You\u2019re witnessing yourself. Then you may go straight back to that voice that\u2019s like, \u201cMan, woe is me.\u201d And you know that that\u2019s actually not your voice, that that\u2019s something else inside of you that is longing to be healed.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>In your own life, Alexandra, what has strengthened your witness consciousness?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>I think meditation for sure. Prayer for sure. Yeah. I think meditation and just any contemplative kind of study and work. Extreme vigilance that probably has arisen from trauma of just growing up in a household where I was really aware of the emotional experiences of people around me and really attuning to \u201cWhere are they at?\u201d That helped me to become the healer, the coach, the teacher that I am, because I have a great capacity. It\u2019s very much the Wounded Healer archetype, where part of your wound is the way that now you turn that into a gift.<\/span><\/p>\n

So for me, I think I have that kind of hypervigilance turned into a gift of attunement with my own self-understanding. For other people and clients that I might see, they might not have that. So I can\u2019t assume that, and I would say seated meditation, journaling, just self-awareness cultivation that can happen over time, which is\u2014it\u2019s not the sort of wild, embodied, emotional kind of practice. It\u2019s a little bit more still practice. It\u2019s a quieting practice. It\u2019s regulating, which is equally important.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>In the beginning of <\/span>Dare to Feel<\/span><\/i>, you\u2019re very clear that if you want to feel the ecstatic end of the spectrum of feelings, that you need to have this willingness to feel everything. And I wonder if you can address that person who says, \u201cLook, let me just tell you the truth. I want to feel happy. That\u2019s the truth. That\u2019s the truth. That\u2019s why I got interested in all this stuff. I mean, I know. Yeah. OK.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Right, right.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: \u201c<\/b>But that\u2019s really what\u2019s going on for me. I\u2019m not interested in the full-spectrum approach. I just want to feel happy. Alexandra, are you just not the teacher for me, or are you saying something else here about how feeling deep ecstasy, happiness in an extreme way, the price we have to pay?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah. Well, the good news is, is I think at the end of the day, when we let ourselves feel that we are actually happier people, because we\u2019re spending so much less time trying to repress feelings, so we\u2019re spending less time trying to hold off parts of our experience, which is really draining. So when we allow a natural feeling of sadness to wash through us like a wave, and we just feel it, we don\u2019t brace around it, we don\u2019t grip around it, and then it actually can move through us. We weren\u2019t taught that as kids.<\/span><\/p>\n

But I do think that\u2019s a natural emotional experience and response. I have a baby, and she can feel a million things so quickly, and she doesn\u2019t hang on. She\u2019s sad and then she\u2019s laughing. Right? It doesn\u2019t seem like she\u2019s gripping to try not to feel this and to feel more of this. So I think that we will feel happier, we will feel more joyful and blissful and regulated and strong when we also let a moment of sadness pass through us. Right? We get a text that\u2019s upsetting or an email.<\/span><\/p>\n

The problem is, I think, that we\u2019re afraid that we\u2019re going to get stuck there, because we haven\u2019t developed the emotional resilience and intelligence to trust ourselves, to know just like if you have a cold, you know it\u2019s going to go away. You\u2019re not going to have a cold for the rest of your life. Right? Most common understanding.<\/span><\/p>\n

So for some reason, we didn\u2019t get the transmission, most of us, that, \u201cOh, shit. If I\u2019m going to start feeling sad, what if it doesn\u2019t go away?\u201d That\u2019s kind of a thing that\u2014maybe it\u2019s not a rational response that we have, but it\u2019s somewhere in the back of our head, \u201cI don\u2019t want to feel that. I don\u2019t want to get stuck there,\u201d or when we\u2019re sad, \u201cWhen is this going to end?\u201d Right? And that, I do think, is a cultural indoctrination of, \u201cWe got to get better fast. Pop an Advil. Get it over with. Keep calm and carry on.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And so the depth of our experience and our ability to feel happy and good is correlative to the depth of our capacity to feel sad, and I\u2019m not the first person to say that. I mean, I remember reading Kahlil Gibran\u2019s <\/span>The Prophet<\/span><\/i> when I was 20 years old, or 19, whenever someone gave it to me, and he says that the well of your grief creates a basin for your joy, something like that. I\u2019m paraphrasing. And that is a mystical notion across time. Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

And so when we try to stay in this really short and small kind of range of human experience, the amount of energy that we are expending to brace ourselves and be there and to numb out the other stuff, it ends up shooting us in the foot, because now we\u2019ve wasted all this time just trying to stay happy. And it creates a mask and a persona of pretending, which I talk about in the book too. Most of us were indoctrinated into pretending, because it\u2019s not easy to be like, \u201cI\u2019m unhappy. I\u2019m sad. I don\u2019t feel good today,\u201d et cetera. Right? It\u2019s not socially acceptable either, but it\u2019s spiritually acceptable, and I would prefer that to become the norm for us at some point.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>When you describe your three-month-old\u2014what\u2019s your child\u2019s name?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Her name is Lua. Lua Rose.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Lua?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Lua means \u201cmoon\u201d in Portuguese, and I\u2019m half Brazilian.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>OK. Lua Rose.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yup.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>All right. And you describe how Lua Rose\u2019s emotional states change. I think we\u2019ve all seen that in infants.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>In children and babies. Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Yeah. And then I can imagine someone reflecting on their own experience and saying, \u201cI\u2019ve been sad for a decade. I\u2019ve been angry since the time I can remember.\u201d These emotions don\u2019t seem to be coming and going. They seem to have taken up residence. And so my question is, how do we, from your experience, become more like that type of fluid and emotionally fluent, let it flow through us?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah. And I\u2019m not a clinician, and I\u2019m not a doctor. And so, as I speak, please note that there are many exceptions and there are many experiences that I\u2019m not speaking to directly in terms of\u2014I mean, I grew up with someone that her experience, my mother, her experience of depression is not something that I could be glib about, \u201cOh, just feel your feelings.\u201d Right? There\u2019s a million people, if not more, who the experience of feeling sadness is a chronic state that has a lot more attached to it. And so I have compassion towards that and understanding around that.<\/span><\/p>\n

And the practice of being in our bodies and feeling, it is a practice. It takes practice. So if you aren\u2019t practicing feeling, crying, screaming, if when you stub your toe, you just go, \u201cMmm,\u201d and you get on with it, then you\u2019re missing a moment of practice. Right? That\u2019s a very simplistic example. But imagine that you stub your toe and you allow yourself a human reaction, \u201cOw! Ooh!\u201d Right? You\u2019re practicing feeling.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you\u2019ve been numb for a long time and not allowed yourself, that might feel very strange. That might feel really embarrassing to practice that, or to let yourself cry in front of someone you love. So on a very simplistic level, am I actually feeling what\u2019s happening in the moment, or do I have a habit of just being in this kind of, whatever the state is for somebody? Is it always grumpy? So noticing those types of things. Or is it always happy? \u201cI\u2019m always happy. Nothing will bother me.\u201d Right? So that person maybe needs to practice around sadness.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019ve had clients that I\u2019m like, \u201cYou put on some sad music and go cry in the bathtub, and make a cry sound. If you haven\u2019t cried in five years, go make a cry sound [CRYING SOUNDS] and see what happens after ten minutes of that.\u201d And most of them start crying. I actually saw on this television show called <\/span>Shrinking<\/span><\/i> on Apple TV with Harrison Ford\u2014he plays a therapist, and he did that with his client, and I thought, \u201cOh my gosh, the work I\u2019m doing is so mainstream now,\u201d that on this show, Harrison Ford\u2019s character tells this girl, \u201cGo every day, put on a sad song and cry,\u201d because she couldn\u2019t. She was hard. She was like a tough chick kind of vibe.<\/span><\/p>\n

So on a simplistic level, you can practice feeling. You can practice feeling something different, and you can notice, \u201cWhat is my constant habit around intimacy, around feeling? What is my habit? Could I do something new? Could I practice something new?\u201d And that\u2019s when we look at our life as practice, as practice of awakening, as practice towards that spiritual breadth of understanding that we all, I think, if we\u2019re listening, we all want to be a part of. Right? We want to meet an edge.<\/span><\/p>\n

So the angry person\u2019s edge maybe is to laugh a bit more. Right? And maybe the sad person\u2019s edge is to, I don\u2019t know, dance a little bit every day and put on a happy song. And again, these practices may sound simplistic, but it is a metaphor for something greater. Right? And so we can change on the sort of physiological level, which does have then the impact in our emotional state, which then does create a shift in our projection of how we see the world.<\/span><\/p>\n

And maybe it\u2019s also not about just changing and just creating a state change, because that is almost, like I said several times, can be simplistic. And I\u2019m not the first to say this. Instead of a state change, a trait change. How do we change the trait instead of just the quick state? And that requires deeper work. A lot of people don\u2019t want to do that. A lot of people don\u2019t want to sit and really examine, \u201cOoh, why do I always put on this happy face? When did that start in my life? Did someone tell me that? What\u2019s underneath that? And can I be really curious about that and give it time?\u201d Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

So that is where transformational work, I do think, often takes time. And that that\u2019s OK. That that\u2019s totally OK. It\u2019s about it being a practice, not just results oriented. Even though I know we all want results too, we can have both. I do think we can have both. The state change and the trait change.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>You mentioned, Alexandra, that <\/span>Dare to Feel<\/span><\/i> is really your tribute to the heart and the heart center from the chakra system, your own heart\u2019s blossoming, flowering in your life energetically. And what I\u2019m curious about when you think of the transformational path of the heart is what it\u2019s like for you when I say something like \u201cstarting to see the world or experience the world through your heart,\u201d what that\u2019s like, that feeling, that experience.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

AR: <\/b>Yeah. The best example I can give is imagine you\u2019re watching a sunrise and you\u2019re with someone you love, and you are just so moved that tears just start dripping down your cheeks, and it\u2019s just a moment of pure love, bliss, wonder. And that\u2019s because your heart is so open, so available to life, so available to the painting on the sky, to how magnificent it is to be alive, to how amazing it is that you are healthy and that you\u2019re sitting with someone you love.<\/span><\/p>\n

So when you are on that transformational path of the heart, you\u2019re seeing life through this felt sense. And that\u2019s where your experience, you let it move you. You let it touch you. You let it in. And those moments that are so beautiful like that, you have the capacity to actually feel them, to actually feel your life, the beauty and the magic of that moment. Or the tragedy. And that\u2019s when we know we\u2019re on that transformational path of the heart, because we are letting life in to that place and state of feeling, where things are changing and shifting inside of us. And we let it, and we let that in.<\/span><\/p>\n

And it\u2019s not an intellectual thing. If you\u2019re watching a child laughing and smiling or you\u2019re watching that sunrise or whatever it is that moves you, it\u2019s not intellectual. It\u2019s not something you can analyze. It is a deep human experience that you\u2019re feeling through your heart that you can if you want. And so that\u2019s a choice. It\u2019s like, if my heart is open and I\u2019ve worked hard and you\u2019ve worked hard to open it, then we get to feel our lives before we die, because we don\u2019t know when we\u2019re going to die, any of us.<\/span><\/p>\n

So if we\u2019re not feeling our lives, if we\u2019re not in our lives, embodied, full, open, then what are we doing? And yes, it can be overwhelming at times. So we have to be discerning. And yes, it takes practice and it takes that heart warriorship. But if not now, when? And if not this, then what? Right? We have this one life. So to me, that is that path of the heart.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>I\u2019ve been speaking with Alexandra Roxo. She\u2019s the author of the new book <\/span>Dare to Feel<\/span><\/i>: <\/span>The Transformational Path of the Heart<\/span><\/i>. And if you\u2019d like to watch <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> on video and participate in the after-show Q&A session with our guests, come join us on Sounds True One, a new membership community featuring award-winning original shows, live classes, community learning, guided meditations, and more with the leading wisdom teachers of our time. Use promo code PODCAST to get your first month free. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com. Sounds True: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-20576","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nDare To Feel - Transcript | Sounds True<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with Dare To Feel. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdom.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Dare To Feel - Transcript | Sounds True\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with Dare To Feel. 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