{"id":23371,"date":"2024-09-20T11:46:43","date_gmt":"2024-09-20T17:46:43","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=23371"},"modified":"2024-09-20T11:46:43","modified_gmt":"2024-09-20T17:46:43","slug":"til-stress-do-us-part","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/til-stress-do-us-part\/","title":{"rendered":"‘Til Stress Do Us Part"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

UNEDITED TRANSCRIPT:<\/b> The following transcript is provided in its raw, unedited form and may contain errors. We have not proofread this transcript, so it may include typographical errors or other mistakes due to inconsistencies in audio quality, background noise, or other factors. We cannot guarantee its precision or completeness. We encourage you to use this rough transcript as a supplement to your own notes and recollection of the session.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Tami Simon:<\/b> Hello, friends. My name\u2019s Tami Simon, and I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True. And I want to welcome you to the Sounds True podcast, <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I also want to take a moment to introduce you to Sounds True\u2019s new membership community and digital platform. It\u2019s called Sounds True One. Sounds True One features original premium transformational docuseries, community events, classes to start your day and relax in the evening, special weekly live shows including a video version of <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> with an aftershow community question-and-answer session with featured guests. I hope you\u2019ll come join us, explore, come have fun with us, and connect with others. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I also want to take a moment and introduce you to the Sounds True Foundation, our nonprofit that creates equitable access to transformational tools and teachings. You can learn more at SoundsTrueFoundation.org. And in advance, thank you for your support.<\/span><\/p>\n

In this episode of <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>, my guest is Elizabeth Earnshaw. She is a talented couple\u2019s therapist and the author of the new Sounds True book <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part<\/span><\/i>. Let me tell you a little bit more about Elizabeth. She\u2019s a licensed family and marriage therapist, a Certified Gottman Therapist, an American Association of Marriage and Family Therapy\u2013approved supervisor, and I\u2019m just getting started. She\u2019s the cofounder of the Serena Williams\u2013backed relationship health company called OURS and founder of A Better Life Therapy.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Elizabeth is a gifted writer. Previously with Sounds True she published the book <\/span>I Want This to Work<\/span><\/i>, which is really a couple\u2019s manual, a couple\u2019s workbook, in particular for young couples, people in their twenties and thirties setting out on committed relationship life with that spirit of \u201cI want this to work.\u201d She\u2019s someone whose voice has been featured in the <\/span>New York Times<\/span><\/i>, <\/span>USA Today<\/span><\/i>, <\/span>The Oprah Magazine<\/span><\/i>, and more.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Elizabeth wears a lot of hats, as she describes it. She\u2019s the mother of two children, a business owner, a mom, a wife, a friend, family member, and as I mentioned, somehow she found the time amidst all of that to write a new book, <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part: How to Heal the #1 Issue in Our Relationships<\/span><\/i>. And that\u2019s what we\u2019ll be talking about today. Elizabeth, welcome.<\/span><\/p>\n

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Elizabeth Earnshaw:<\/b> Hi, thanks for having me.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, this notion of stress being the number one issue in our relationships, how did you come to identify stress, as you put it, the number one issue? That\u2019s a very strong claim.<\/span><\/p>\n

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EE:<\/b> Yeah, so I didn\u2019t identify it at first. It wasn\u2019t something that I learned in school, but it was the convergence of a lot of different experiences that I was having personally that I was having in the therapy room that I was having in trainings. And I talk about it a little bit in the book, but personally I was married, I had my first child and I was noticing that my husband and I, we were fighting more than we had been before we had a child and I couldn\u2019t figure out why. I\u2019m a therapist and I knew all the tools. I know how I\u2019m supposed to talk to my partner and how to bring up issues gently and all of those things and nothing was really working. And then while I was working with my couples, I was noticing the same things happening. So I was working with these couples who were coming in and really otherwise in their lives, they had good communication skills, they held onto jobs, they had friends, they described their relationship as being happy previously. And I started to notice, oh my gosh, there\u2019s all this stuff going on for the two of you and that is why you\u2019re struggling. And so those experiences, especially since 2020, I\u2019ve seen them kind of erupt and there\u2019s just been so much stress for the couples that I work with that I felt like it was really important to talk about.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS:<\/b> Now, I noticed that some people perhaps glaze over when they hear a word like \u201cstress.\u201d This sounds too simple, Elizabeth. And yet as I read <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part<\/span><\/i>, I actually thought you\u2019re pointing to something brilliant and that the more we can name it, be aware of it, and talk about it in our relationships, it will be a very, very powerful, helpful medicine for us. But just talk about this word \u201cstress\u201d and what you mean by it. As I mentioned, I think people can perhaps just glaze over and go, \u201cWhat? Yeah, of course. Everything\u2019s stressful. C\u2019mon.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Yeah, and I mean I think it\u2019s like any of us would say it\u2019s common sense. Of course if we\u2019re under stress, we\u2019re not going to be the greatest people to each other, and that makes sense, but there\u2019s a lot more to it. So stress is this experience that you have within your mind and within your body, and it can be caused in a lot of different ways so you can experience stress because there\u2019s a lot going on outside of your relationship. So maybe work is stressful, maybe you are in this sandwich generation and you\u2019re taking care of your parents, maybe you got into traffic on the way home. So there\u2019s a lot of things outside of our relationships that can cause us stress. And then there are things in the relationship that can cause us stress, and these could be disagreeing on things, not being able to talk about topics and getting to some sort of agreement, feeling as if the other person is distant and withdrawn. And so all of these things can be stress.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, what is stress? Like I said, it\u2019s something that\u2019s happening in your mind and your body and there\u2019s actual physiological reactions to it. Sometimes just enough stress is really good for us and it motivates us. So things are a little bit hard at work. It motivates us to want to do even more work. It gives us some stress hormones that give us energy. Things are a little challenging in the relationship. We feel maybe motivated to make things better, but when stress reaches a certain threshold, we go outside of our ability to navigate it and we actually have something that it\u2019s called self-regulation depletion. So we lose our abilities to regulate because stress hormones are being dumped into our body. Too many things have happened and the spillover starts to do things to our internal organs, starts to do things to our heart, our muscles, and also changes the way that we think. And because of all of this, if we are not managing stress well, it changes our ability to actually do the things that we know to do, and it changes our ability to be present with people that we care about.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS:<\/b> You mentioned that the pandemic seemed to bring into people\u2019s awareness this sense of \u201cI think I\u2019m kind of stressed a lot most of the time now,\u201d whether it\u2019s about the work situation has changed, just increased uncertainty related to climate change, and am I safe in the world? Is democracy safe? There\u2019s this sense that so much uncertainty and instability. So now it\u2019s also of course spilling out into our intimate relationships and having, as you point out <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part<\/span><\/i>, really deleterious effects. Now I name this stress to my partner. How does my partner then comfort me when they\u2019re also under stress?<\/span><\/p>\n

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EE:<\/b> So usually people don\u2019t, and then that\u2019s where the problems arise. So I get them in my office because what\u2019s been happening for a long time is there has been an experience where both people are experiencing stress. It could be for the same reason or it could be for different reasons. They have their own stuff going on. And what people tend to unfortunately do if they\u2019re not aware is they tend to just regulate each other. And so we are very sensitive as human beings to other people\u2019s stress states. We feel it. And I mean anybody has had that experience before where somebody comes in and their mood or the way that they\u2019re speaking or whatever, you can kind of feel that something\u2019s off. And if we\u2019re already stressed and we feel they\u2019re stressed, then we are kind of like a cup that\u2019s completely full and their stress spills into that cup and it spills over within us.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so the way we respond becomes dysregulating. Somebody comes in the door and instead of they\u2019re so stressed that instead of giving us a hug, they walk to the kitchen and get a glass of water. And our response to that is, oh, I guess you didn\u2019t want to say hello to me because that causes our own internal distress that they ignored us even if it was not on purpose, if it had no ill intent, none of those things, it causes our own internal distress. So we say something like that and then what happens to them? They feel more distressed. And so that spills over and then they\u2019re like, well, forget it. I had a hard day. You don\u2019t even care about me. And they either fight, flight, freeze, and then it just continues. So usually people don\u2019t tend to navigate it.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, what we want them to learn to do is to learn how to coregulate, which is to learn how to be aware of your own internal experience. You don\u2019t have to know if the other person is stressed out or spilling over. You actually don\u2019t have to know. But what you can know is, wow, something just shifted inside of me when I saw them or heard them do whatever they just did. And because of that, I can build awareness, I can regulate myself, and because I can regulate myself, I can actually be a coregulation instead of a dysregulation with this person.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> So let\u2019s talk about that, because you\u2019re emphasizing the physiological nature. So how do we attune to our own physiology and effectively regulate ourselves when our partner comes in and goes directly to the refrigerator and says, \u201cLook, I\u2019m dealing with some stuff. I\u2019m dealing with some stuff. Come on.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

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EE:<\/b> And then you\u2019re like, \u201cWell, I\u2019m dealing with some stuff too. I had a lot of things that I need your help.\u201d And so the most important thing with any type of change, it\u2019s just awareness. So now that you\u2019re hearing this conversation, you have awareness now that when you get into these modes with your friend, your partner, your kids, whoever it is that don\u2019t feel aligned with who you are or who you want to be, that it\u2019s probably because you\u2019re having a stress response. So now that you have this awareness, the next time it happens, I want you to pay a lot of attention to what did it feel like in your body? What did you start to notice? And maybe that time you don\u2019t change it. Maybe that time you still yell at your partner or you stomp away or you just do your thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

But then afterwards reflect, what was I feeling in my body when that was happening? Instead of perseverating, what was I thinking? Why was I right? What do I need to prove? What do I need to argue? What was I feeling in my body? I was feeling my heart race. I was feeling like my words were jumbled. I was feeling my stomach get clenched. So next time, my commitment, when I start to feel those things in my body is going to be that my only job right now is to self-soothe the antidote to stress causing all these arguments is one of the biggest is learning how to self-soothe. And so I\u2019m going to learn to say, whoa, you came in the door and you did that. I\u2019ve started to feel something. I\u2019m just going to step away for a second, or I\u2019m going to learn to breathe or I\u2019m going to learn to slow my voice down. I want to yell at them. And instead of yelling, I\u2019m going to say, OK, I can see that maybe you need a little bit of space and you\u2019re just going to walk into another space. But you\u2019re doing that for yourself. You\u2019re actually not doing it for them. Because if you can keep yourself calm and you can keep your body in a space where it\u2019s soothed, right? You\u2019re not going to be fully regulated, but you\u2019re soothing yourself, you are less likely to get into those dysregulated arguments with each other.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK, so let\u2019s say my partner\u2019s upset about something, and I\u2019m a very sensitive and empathic person, and I immediately catch, if you will, the contagion of their dysregulation. And so now I\u2019m focusing on my own breathing, and they\u2019re like, \u201cYou\u2019re not even asking me about what\u2019s happening with me. You\u2019re not there for me.\u201d I\u2019m not even in a place where I can reach out at that point and offer support because I\u2019m so sensitive. I\u2019ve caught their dysregulation pattern.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Exactly. And so you might have the other person in their dysregulated state. And something I talk about in the book is that we all react differently. So some people, they\u2019re like a cobra and they start fighting with you, you\u2019re not even listening to me, or of course you\u2019re walking away, or Why are you talking? My favorite in my life is why are you talking to me like a therapist when I\u2019m trying to call myself dead? I\u2019m like, I\u2019m not. I\u2019m just trying to calm myself down and use a calm voice. So some people might become fighters. Some people while you\u2019re trying to regulate yourself, they might say, you don\u2019t seem interested and stomp away. Some people might say nothing in the moment, and I always say this to couples, it is more important that you don\u2019t allow the dysregulation between the two of you to continue.<\/span><\/p>\n

You can\u2019t control it in the other person than it is to convince them, I\u2019m an empathetic person. Of course I care, or You\u2019re not being fair, or whatever it is. It\u2019s more important to do that. And in the moment, the very first time it happens, your partner might not know what\u2019s going on, but what can be helpful is that later you talk about it and you say to your partner, sometimes when I get overwhelmed when you\u2019re upset or something like this, I just want to make sure I\u2019m saying the right thing, or I just want to make sure that I don\u2019t fly off the handle. Whatever your thing is, I want to be there for you. So it would be really helpful if in the future, if you notice me taking a break or you notice that I\u2019ve gotten quiet for a second, whatever it is that you need to do, that you just understand it as I am trying to get myself to be there for you.<\/span><\/p>\n

The hope is, is that over time, and again, I always tell people I\u2019m very much a realist, over time your partner starts to learn that about you, and they\u2019re able to have a felt sense of this person\u2019s safe, this person does care about me. This is just their way of soothing themselves. They needed to take 15 minutes or they needed to take some breaths. Hopefully they see that over time because what they should see over time is that you doing that makes the conversation more effective in the long run or the connection or whatever it is that you\u2019re trying to do in that moment.<\/span><\/p>\n

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TS:<\/b> Now, you mentioned, Elizabeth, that in your own education, stress was not emphasized as some central experience to name and to talk about in relationship, and that\u2019s interesting to me. This is your original contribution in a sense to how couples can become aware. What\u2019s the power of just bringing awareness to, oh, tell me about some of the stress you\u2019re under and let me share some of the stress that\u2019s going on for me and how that shifts the dynamic between two people.<\/span><\/p>\n

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EE:<\/b> It\u2019s so powerful because it gives people a common enemy that isn\u2019t each other. And so all of a sudden I\u2019m working with a couple in the room and they\u2019re pointing fingers at each other. You always choose your mother over me, and I understand that you chose your mother because there\u2019s all this stuff going on, dah, dah, dah. But you do that to me. And the other person\u2019s pointing back and saying, well, you\u2019re always so critical and you never want to X, Y, and Z. You\u2019re so unyielding. So they\u2019re pointing at each other. And when I can help them to see this is actually an experience that you\u2019re both having right now that is so stressful to both of you, it causing you internal distress. And because of that you are not acting the way that you usually would. You are maybe not communicating what\u2019s going on with the in-law the way you usually would, or maybe you\u2019re frustrated with your partner because when your mother comes around, your partner becomes snippy or something like that, and you\u2019re like, why can\u2019t you just be nice?<\/span><\/p>\n

But once you realize, maybe your partner becomes more hostile because when your mother is around, I\u2019m just using this example, they start, your partner starts to feel dysregulated. It\u2019s not that your partner is an awful hostile person, it\u2019s that they feel a little dysregulated and the way they deal with that, and I\u2019m not saying this is the way it should be continued to be dealt with, but the way that they deal with it is they get overwhelmed, dysregulated and hostile. And so all of a sudden they can say with each other, OK, well how do we want to deal with this outside stressor? Or how do we want to deal with all of these things that are impacting us and how can we be there for each other and be on a team? And that makes a huge difference in the way that they communicate about the same issues. They\u2019re already talking about those issues, but it changes the way they talk about it.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> In <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part<\/span><\/i> you share quite a bit about your own life and your own journey being a new mom with your husband, Andrew, and I can\u2019t remember if there were open diapers in the kitchen or the dog had peed right in the center of the floor. There\u2019s no food in the refrigerator. The sheets weren\u2019t on the bed. And at one point Andrew was watching television while you were dealing with all of this. And I\u2019m curious, first of all, what it was like for you as this accomplished relationship therapist to share so much about your own struggles and the discoveries you made about relationships through how hard it was for you?<\/span><\/p>\n

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EE:<\/b> Yeah, I mean, something that was really important to me when all of this was going on was to figure it out because I was sitting with people who I\u2019m helping and I\u2019m like, oh my God, at home I\u2019m a nut and I\u2019m helping. I\u2019m trying to help the two of you, so I\u2019ve got to figure out what\u2019s going on. For me, I feel like because I had taken time to really think about it, integrate it, understand it, go to therapy, it felt good to share it. And it\u2019s something that I feel like can be helpful to people to share that they\u2019re not alone, that even a therapist who deals with couples, who knows all of these things can struggle with this, that it\u2019s human nature. But of course, at times when it was going on, it\u2019s confusing because I would step away from an argument or a time, a time where I wasn\u2019t particularly myself, and I would be like, what in the world this is putting into question any of these tools I know, are they real? Is it, can people learn about the Four Horsemen? And if as long as they know it, they can be better communicators? It put into question\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Can you say what you mean by that? The Four Horsemen for people who aren\u2019t familiar with that.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> So the Four Horsemen is a concept that\u2019s introduced by John Gottman after doing decades of research since the seventies when he was observing couples, he would observe them for many, many, many years. And what he found was that the couples who are most successful, and by success that means they say they feel fulfilled, they stay together, they avoid four things, and they\u2019re called the Four Horsemen. It\u2019s a play on the Four Horsemen that symbolize the end of times, and they are criticism, defensiveness, stonewalling in contempt. And so when you come to couple\u2019s therapy, that\u2019s one of the biggest things that you start to talk about. You start to identify, are we doing these four things because research shows us that they can lead to divorce? Am I being critical? Am I being defensive? Am I shutting down? Am I being contemptuous? So these were things I was helping people with and I knew about, but these are things that we start to do when we are physiologically overwhelmed and distressed. And so I knew not to be critical, but I was super critical of my husband and my husband. He will admit it. He was very defensive all the time. And so like I said, it started to put into question even my role in the world, I was like, should I be teaching people these things? Because I can\u2019t do it, but I can do it as long as I understand what to do with my distress. And I think that that\u2019s the piece that\u2019s missing for a lot of people.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, you mentioned that with stress, it\u2019s a cycle that can resolve itself, and I wanted to hear a little bit more about that as a physiological cycle. I mean, certainly I think all of us have the experience of flying off the handle, going for a walk, coming back, it\u2019s an hour later, and it\u2019s like, \u201cOh, I can finally talk to you now.\u201d But I also think many people have the experience of being under stress kind of constantly. It doesn\u2019t feel\u2014those kind of like \u201cI\u2019m homicidal\u201d situations resolve, but there\u2019s a low-grade stress that I think sometimes for people you don\u2019t have the experience of it resolving. So I\u2019d love to understand more your view of that.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Yes, and that\u2019s exactly the problem right now in the world is that people have so much chronic stress that the stress cycle isn\u2019t completing. And so like you mentioned, we all have those moments where we get really an upsetting email and we want to slam the keyboard back at the person and send something off. And thank God we don\u2019t because 30 minutes later we\u2019re like, oh my gosh, I\u2019m in a different mindset now and thank goodness I didn\u2019t say that, but chronic stress. So that\u2019s a acute stress happens. You get away from it, you take the walk and it\u2019s done. You take the test, that was really hard, whatever, but chronic stress, when you are living in it just constantly being bombarded, and that\u2019s what\u2019s happening in society right now. You can\u2019t, those stress hormones stay in the bloodstream, they don\u2019t go away. And so you\u2019re always kind of at an elevated stress level.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then when those other moments happen where you would usually resolve, you do fly off the handle in your own way. So you might fly off the handle by being withdrawn or by blasting someone or whatever it is. So we have so much chronic stress. And what I mean by that is it\u2019s not just we\u2019ve all always had stressors, but we can\u2019t get away from them. So work might always have been a stressor, but people went home in the evening and they were done with that. If somebody, I remember when I was little, if somebody needed to get ahold of my dad who had a pretty stressful job, he was an attorney, they had to call the phone in our kitchen, and if it was ringing during dinnertime, that thing just kept ringing or they would take it off the hook and that was the only way somebody could contact him.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now we have people who are working jobs and they can\u2019t leave it. They get emails all night, they get slack pains. A lot of many more people are struggling with chronic illness, and so they are always with that illness. They\u2019re never feeling good, they\u2019re struggling with their health. It\u2019s always, there are so many chronic stressors and people are often not just dealing with one, they\u2019re dealing with many. And then you have media and social media and all of those types of things bombarding people constantly. And it\u2019s a lot for the human body and the human mind to take.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> So someone\u2019s listening and they say, \u201cI am reflecting right now as I listened to you, Elizabeth, about the stress that\u2019s in my life and in my partner\u2019s life, this chronic stress and the sense that we\u2019ve been in this state for a while now, maybe started intensifying during the pandemic, and it\u2019s not ending and our relationship is becoming somewhat threadbare as a result. It\u2019s not like it was previously, and there doesn\u2019t seem to be a simple I\u2019m-going-to-breathe-in-my-belly-and-it\u2019s-going-to-get-better kind of answer.\u201d What do you recommend?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Yeah, so there\u2019s not a simple answer, and I think that\u2019s important to say. There is no pill I can give you overnight fix. It is a long-term answer. And the answer is, number one, to start identifying stressors in your life. One of the most powerful things that my husband and I ever did was we got very honest with ourselves about what are all of the things that are here? And some of them were very obvious and some of them were not so obvious. So some of them were like, well, we have a sister-in-law who is dying. That\u2019s an obvious stressor and we know that. We know it\u2019s there. We both worked full-time jobs out of the house. This was before work from home right out of the house, dropping kids, dropping our son off. We only had one at the time. That\u2019s an obvious stressor.<\/span><\/p>\n

But we had these other things and we really had to be honest about them. It was a stressor that I volunteered to be on the board of something, even though that was kind of fun. It was a stressor that we were spending money on certain things that we didn\u2019t really need to spend money on. So there was all of these different things and we both had different things that were causing us stress. So we compiled this long list. And what I talked to couples about when we\u2019re working together is let\u2019s pause for a second and really look, because often people will dismiss themselves. They\u2019ll say, well, that\u2019s just like one thing, but that\u2019s just life we have to work. I\u2019ll say, well, let\u2019s pause. I really want you to look at everything. Even if you felt it was positive initially to take on, you just bought a new house, it\u2019s exciting, it\u2019s positive, or you just had a baby, that\u2019s exciting.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s something you wanted, but even so it\u2019s a stressor and let\u2019s write all of those things down. And that awareness helps people to be able to say, yeah, you\u2019re right. There are a lot of things. There\u2019s a lot of moving pieces. Some are out of our control, some aren\u2019t. And then the next part of it is to really look at where you have control versus where you don\u2019t. And I talk in the book about what do you do about the things that you have control over? And then how do you kind of adapt to and navigate the parts of life that you don\u2019t? You are always going to face some sort of stress in life that is a part of life, but learning how to do it together in a way where you feel like a team instead of enemies is something that we can all learn to do.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now you mentioned even good stressors, good things\u2014buying a new house\u2014can become distressing. You talk about this notion of eustress, which is the positive type of challenge-in-a-life stress, becoming distress. When eustress becomes distress, how do we know? Because of course we want to grow and expand and take on exciting projects. How do we evaluate where to draw the line?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Is it causing dysfunction in your life? I mean, it\u2019s hard. It\u2019s very difficult. People often resist talking about those positive things and really kind of taking an honest look and saying even though they\u2019re positive, actually that\u2019s causing a lot of dysfunction. One example with parents is often being very involved in all of the school things, all of the sports, all of whatever. And you\u2019ll talk to the family and say, OK, well here\u2019s the obviously negative things. Those are some things. Those are usually the things you actually don\u2019t have very much control over. You just got fired or whatever from a job, and here\u2019s all these positive things, but those positive things are costing you a ton of money. They\u2019re costing you a ton of time. And are you extending yourself in a way that doesn\u2019t realistically work in your life right now? And can we explore, is this something that you actually want to be doing? Is it actually bringing function to your family, to your life, to you individually? Is it helping you feel like you\u2019re getting something out of this or is this more based in some sort of narrative you\u2019ve created?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

And I talk a lot about with couples, and in the book I talk about this gap. We have this narrative. I really want to be the PTA mom. That\u2019s who I\u2019m supposed to be. And so I take on all this stuff, but I\u2019m also a full-time\u2014I have a full-time job. And so how can both of those things realistically fit? Well, what they\u2019re going to do is they\u2019re going to fit in the time, and then at 10:00 PM I\u2019m going to have no time for myself. I\u2019m not going to eat anything. I\u2019m going to be exhausted. I\u2019m going to be hopping back into my emails for work all to make all of this fit because there\u2019s this big gap I\u2019m trying to fill and I explore with people, where\u2019s that gap coming from? Is that really who you want to be? Or is that who your mother was and you think that\u2019s what you\u2019re supposed to be? Is that a narrative you got from somewhere? And can we reimagine who you want to be as a mother or who you want to be as a partner in the life you actually have? And so that\u2019s something that we explore a lot.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> You introduced this idea of intentional sacrifice, that sometimes we need to intentionally sacrifice certain things we\u2019re doing, because when you add it all up, it\u2019s too much stress. Do couples make those decisions together? I could imagine my partner saying something or other about my work and how I should sacrifice this or that or commitment to my meditation community or other things. And I\u2019m like, \u201cTime out. This is my world. This is what I\u2019m doing. No.\u201d So how do you figure that out together?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Yes. So you have to do it together. Well, some of the things you\u2019re going to do individually, right? I\u2019m thinking about myself. I started to notice I was volunteering for way too many things with my son\u2019s life, all the things at school. I\u2019m like, I\u2019ll be there, but then I\u2019m rearranging my clients and working until midnight and just wild stuff. I mean, I made a unilateral decision that I wasn\u2019t going to do that stuff anymore. It was bringing me to stress and my husband could have cared less. He probably was in my ear saying, I don\u2019t think you need to be the library mom and also the ice cream mom, just pick one. So some of it might be unilateral, but the really big things you\u2019re going to work on together, and these aren\u2019t going to be quick fixes. If your partner came and said to you, I think your job is bringing you a lot of stress and because of that you\u2019re not showing up, I miss you.<\/span><\/p>\n

You\u2019re not showing up the way I want you to show up. The hope would be that you would be able to be open to hearing that, but not that you would immediately say, yeah, I\u2019m going to quit my job tomorrow. I mean, this is my whole life and my career and everything that fills me up. The hope would be that you would be able to say, interesting. What have you noticed? Tell me a little bit more about how you think it\u2019s influencing us. And then maybe you would look at this list of all the stressors and you would say, but hey, we\u2019ve got all these other things too. Is it just my job or is it that we can\u2019t navigate job and all this other stuff? And is there a way that we can negotiate around this? And most of the time people have to find some minor negotiations.<\/span><\/p>\n

Most people can\u2019t just leave their job tomorrow either because they have to stay in it or they love it and it\u2019s their whole career. But maybe there are some negotiated sacrifices that are intentional. I won\u2019t do, I know you don\u2019t like me coming home late, so it\u2019s going to be really hard, but I\u2019ll let my team know that I\u2019m not going to do anything after 7:00 PM I\u2019m just giving that as an example, and that might change my work a little bit, but I\u2019ll work on being home or hey, I think we\u2019d have less stress if while I\u2019m working, you were doing X, Y, and Z, and maybe that would help. So it\u2019s a negotiation.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Your husband, Andrew, ended up quitting his job. How did you come to that conclusion and how did it work out?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Yeah, so in 2020, we both were working from home and we had a small child and we both had pretty stressful jobs. So he was working a corporate job. I think he had get on by 7:00 AM and he often wasn\u2019t finishing until 7:00 PM, and I was having to fit my work in around all of that, but I still had the same number of hours I had to work. So it was just really, really difficult. And what we were reflecting on a lot, once we were able to start the conversation and not be at each other\u2019s throats for all the other things we thought we were mad about is that my job is my passion. And his job was not only not his passion, but it was blocking him from his passion. And is there anything we could do to maybe change things here? Did we need to be paying a nanny to come in, which was like strapping us, right? It was so expensive. Would it be more affordable and less stressful to not do that? To maybe have him be home? Would that open up time for him to do what he actually likes to do? That would mean we\u2019d have to spend less money, that we would have to cut back on some things that we would have to take this huge risk that maybe we couldn\u2019t afford to live that. But we made the decision because really our lives were completely unmanageable with both of us working.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> When you\u2019ve seen couples in your practice who handle these negotiations well, and you\u2019ve seen couples who don\u2019t handle them well, how would you describe the differences? I can imagine there\u2019s so many issues. Let\u2019s say one person wants to have a second child and the other is like, \u201cThat is just not a stressor I think we can take on in the system.\u201d And for one person it\u2019s like, \u201cWell, this is my passion. This is my dream.\u201d And the other person is like, \u201cThis is going to topple our system.\u201d I mean, which couples handle these kinds of things? Well, what capacities and skills do they have?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> I think they have a skill of realistically assessing their lives. I think that that\u2019s huge. When I\u2019m working with couples who are able to say, I actually still want a baby, even though I realistically know our lives are wild right now, and it\u2019s probably not a good idea. Those couples do better because then there can be real conversations. It\u2019s not somebody saying, of course we could handle it. It\u2019s just another baby. It wouldn\u2019t be a big deal. I think it would get better if we had the baby. It\u2019s somebody saying, I agree with you. Our lives are wild and out of control and things have gotten too hard and maybe a baby would make it worse. So I really want this. What would need to change for us? So when there\u2019s an ability to look at things as they really are and to talk about them instead of getting closed off and defensive and idealistic, then change can happen or people can negotiate.<\/span><\/p>\n

The second skill that\u2019s really important is the ability to really slow down and not feel like you\u2019ve got to make a decision tomorrow. And I know that\u2019s hard with children because there is a biological clock, but to take the time to actually understand where you\u2019re both coming from, what do you both feel like this is going to bring or is going to bring in a positive way or bring in a negative way into the family? And are you able to figure out a scenario where you can get an outcome that works for both of you? So in the example that you gave, if one partner is saying, we wanted two kids, but it\u2019s not a good idea. Look at how we don\u2019t have money, we don\u2019t have the bandwidth, we didn\u2019t get along when you were postpartum, it\u2019s going to be horrible. And then the other person saying, I really, really want another kid.<\/span><\/p>\n

If that person is able to say, what do you think would help us have the bandwidth? I want to understand you. What would life ideally look like? Where would we need to be? How would we need to be navigating things? And then the other person is able to say, tell me what you think would be good actually exchanging these thoughts. That\u2019s when people can get somewhere. Sometimes you can\u2019t get somewhere with it. Sometimes people are like, I want a kid and I think that we could do it, and the other person is absolutely not. And that\u2019s really challenging because then you have to decide, does one of us yield and say, never mind, I\u2019m not going to do my dream, or do you break up? What do you do in that scenario? But the hope is, is that you can figure out outcomes that work for you both. And so with the kids\u2019 situation, one outcome that might work for both people is if we have a second kid, then I\u2019ll agree to make sacrifices so our life is less stressful. Here\u2019s the things that I think would work. But you\u2019ve got to be able to have those open and honest conversations.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> One of the things I hear you saying, and I want to check this out, when you and Andrew put everything down\u2014you wrote down all of your stressors and you decided which intentional sacrifices you could make\u2014is that the solution sometimes isn\u2019t just a psychological or I\u2019m going to do this inner work and that\u2019s going to handle what\u2019s happening between us. There are structural changes that have to be made in the relationship and that people need to take a realistic view and be willing to make those structural changes. Is that correct?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Absolutely, yes. And so a lot of it is inner work, especially in the moment of dysregulation, being able to say, I see what\u2019s happening to my body and I can do something about it. But a lot of it is structural changes. I like that that\u2019s what you call it, because that\u2019s really what it is. I\u2019m thinking about a lot of couples I work with, they take on a lot of projects. For example, they might always be redoing something in their house or they\u2019re planning a trip or they\u2019re, there\u2019s just always these projects going on and the inner work isn\u2019t going to make their life less stressful. If let\u2019s say they have contractors in their house every single day and it\u2019s causing leaks and it\u2019s costing more money, and then you have work more and all those things, the inner work\u2019s not going to change anything.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so you have to be also willing to say, are there things about our lives that just have to change? Even if it\u2019s really hard? Do we have to be willing to work on saving more money? Do we have to be willing to say, our house is good enough, it\u2019s OK to have an \u201980s kitchen, maybe you don\u2019t need to gut the bathroom. It\u2019s OK. You don\u2019t have to keep up with the Joneses. Do we need to say, it would be better for us if we moved somewhere else that is going to have less traffic or be closer to family or whatever it is. So sometimes you need to make big changes or little changes, but structural changes, and that can be hard.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And I want to make sure people have an awareness when you talk about learning to regulate ourselves in the moment, noticing our physiology. I read in <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part<\/span><\/i> that you actually suggested that someone use an oximeter in therapy, in the therapy room, in the process to start becoming aware of their physiological shifts. And I thought, oh, that\u2019s interesting. So give people some more ideas of how they work with their own physiology in the moment when they\u2019re noticing dysregulation.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Yeah, so one thing I didn\u2019t mention yet, which I think is really important, and it\u2019s often an aha moment, is when you get physiologically hijacked, there are all sorts of things happening that make it impossible to be relational. And so what is happening to you is you are responding to what you think is a threat. And it doesn\u2019t need to be a scary threat, but it is psychologically so your body responds. It could just be a feeling of my partner doesn\u2019t want to give me a kiss when they walk in the door. Do they not love me anymore? And then your body gets hijacked. And so those threat responses are going to make you very self-focused and they are going to make you protective of yourself. And that might look like lashing out, running away, whatever. They\u2019re not going to make you a person that can see the other person and what they need.<\/span><\/p>\n

You\u2019re just trying to get away from the danger. And so what starts to happen is you actually become very hyper-focused on whatever it is that you need. And in that hyper, you begin to lose your ability to show affection. You begin to lose your ability to have a sense of humor. You begin to lose your ability to show curiosity, problem solve, share thoughts in kind of an articulate way. And so the reason I\u2019m sharing all of this before I say what you can do is because this is all happening to your body, which is why when your partner, you\u2019re in an argument and they try to lighten you up and make a joke and you go, that\u2019s not funny. You are just now you\u2019re making fun of the situation. What they were really trying to do in that moment is help you regulate and help themselves regulate, but you\u2019re dysregulated.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so these are all signals to you. If you notice that you can\u2019t reach for your partner\u2019s hand, you\u2019re so mad and they try to give you a hug, get off me. You can\u2019t laugh. You\u2019re struggling to ask for more information. Hey, tell me what\u2019s going on for you. That means you\u2019re probably in a state where the conversation\u2019s not going to go anywhere because you can\u2019t be relational. You can\u2019t do things that are going to turn down the heat between you. So you want to focus on the inside. And since we know what\u2019s happening on the inside is that your heart is racing, all sorts of your blood is rushing to your organs to keep them going, which is why you need to pee and you need to do all those things. Your muscles are tensing in case you need to fight somebody off, your mouth is getting dry because things are going to other places.<\/span><\/p>\n

All this stuff is happening to you. You can target just one of those areas and you\u2019ll start to feel a little better. So you just keep one in the back of your mind and you say, when I start to get to this place, the one area I want to target is my heart. So what I\u2019m going to do in that moment is I\u2019m going to breathe. I know that starts to slow my heart down, or I\u2019m going to say, I need to go for a walk. I know that helps regulate my heart. Or we know that your breathing gets rapid. So you could say, when I get in the state, one thing I could work on is slowing my breathing down. I get into the state and one thing I could work on is I know my muscles get tense. I can make them tight and then kind of drop them.<\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s these physiological things that you can do. Drink water. I know that all this blood is moving around and I need more water. If you\u2019re doing these things, what you\u2019re signaling to your body is, I\u2019m actually safe. I\u2019m not under the threat that my automatic system thinks that I\u2019m under. I\u2019m not under that threat. I\u2019m safe. I\u2019m in my house with my partner who, yes, they were a jerk or they ignored me or they said something that hurt me, or we just got really bad news together, or I looked at the bank account and I\u2019m freaking out. All of those things are true, but I\u2019m not actually dying right now. And so anything you can do to your system to remind it, I\u2019m not actually dying. I\u2019m drinking water, I\u2019m breathing, I\u2019m taking a walk. All of those things will help you get back to a space where you\u2019re not at risk. And then because you\u2019re not at risk, you can see the other person and you can engage with the other person.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And what have you discovered, Elizabeth, really is the best way to reach out when you\u2019re doing OK, but you can see that your partner is super stressed?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> I think it\u2019s important just to reach out. So whatever your personality style is, you say the way that obviously gently, you don\u2019t want to bring it up when they\u2019re in the middle of a work day or an upsetting moment, but just saying to the person, Hey, I\u2019ve noticed starting with I\u2019ve noticed just really powerful. I\u2019ve noticed that you seem like you\u2019re struggling. And then being curious, curiosity is huge. That helps people feel like they have space to share what they want to share, that you\u2019re actually interested. I\u2019m curious what\u2019s going on with you or how have you been lately? Or maybe they\u2019re in that hyped up state and you just say to them, Hey, I noticed you look like you\u2019re having a hard time. Do you want to go take a few minutes or do you need some space? Just bringing it up I think is really, really important.<\/span><\/p>\n

People aren\u2019t always going to respond to that. Well, some people, they will be shut down in their stress state, and so they might say, nothing\u2019s wrong. I\u2019m fine. Some people might be withdrawn, so not shut down, but they want alone time. And they might just say, I don\u2019t really want to talk about it. Something is going on, but I don\u2019t want to talk about it. So also remembering that you don\u2019t want to push people, but you do want to show people that you see what\u2019s going on and that you\u2019re open to it. Something you want to avoid is showing that you\u2019re distressed about their stress because that does that dysregulating thing. So avoiding, and I think a lot of us accidentally do this, but avoiding things like, what\u2019s wrong with you lately? Or I can just see that you\u2019re so upset and I don\u2019t know what to do about it, whatever it is, but trying as hard as you can to be in a regulated space when you\u2019re reaching out to them.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> No, I think you\u2019re making a really good point, because when someone\u2019s distressed about our stress, then we\u2019re more distressed because now they\u2019re distressed on top of it. Which brings me to a quote that I want to read from <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part<\/span><\/i>, it has to do with taking care of ourselves as a necessity for our partner. And here\u2019s the quote, \u201cIf you\u2019re not sure whether or not you take good care of yourself, ask your partner and take what they say to heart. When I work with couples, I find that a person\u2019s partner usually has a pretty good understanding of how well the person is tending to themselves. However, when they bring up their concerns, their partner will often dismiss them by saying something like, \u2018It\u2019s not your business how I eat, sleep, et cetera.\u2019 Here\u2019s an uncomfortable truth.\u201d This is you saying this. \u201cIt absolutely is their business.\u201d And so here you\u2019re pointing out that if I\u2019m not taking good care of myself and I\u2019m in a stressed situation that\u2019s having a negative impact in my relationship, and it\u2019s my partner\u2019s business actually to help me see this. So in what way and how\u2014let\u2019s just say someone, they\u2019re staying out late, they\u2019re not sleeping well, they\u2019re not taking care of the fact that they\u2019re not sleeping well, it\u2019s degrading things.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Yeah, it\u2019s their business because the contract is we\u2019re together and so therefore I impact you and you impact me. And so the things that you\u2019re doing, whether it\u2019s that you\u2019re working until 1:00 AM or you\u2019re spending too much money, you\u2019re eating really badly, whatever it is, those things are now not only impacting you, they\u2019re impacting us. And so it is my business, number one, I love you and I don\u2019t want anything to happen to you, and I want you to live a good life, and I want to be able to help you in the ways that I can, but it\u2019s also my business because when you work until midnight and then you come in the door and you\u2019re really upset, and then you pop a beer open and you drink six beers, that\u2019s not great for our family. Or when you\u2019re distressed and you\u2019re not taking good care of yourself and you stay up all night and then you sleep until 11:00 AM it\u2019s not good for our family.<\/span><\/p>\n

I need help with the kids, or I need help with getting the yard cleaned up or whatever it is. So it\u2019s something that people often, when they feel criticized, when they\u2019re in a threatened state, they become individualistic. Suddenly. We want to be individuals. We want to be in a relationship when it\u2019s good, but we want to be individuals when anybody is pointing anything out to us. So we\u2019re like, it\u2019s not your business that I\u2019m smoking eight packs of cigarettes a day, and I often have to say, of course, it\u2019s their business. If you smoke eight packs of cigarettes a day and you\u2019re coughing up the lung and you end up very sick, of course that\u2019s their business because not only could the worst happen, but also let\u2019s look at all the underlying stuff that\u2019s even causing that and how is that impacting your relationship? How is that impacting who you are, how you show up, you\u2019re in a relationship together, you\u2019ve signed up to deal with things in life together and you impact each other. And so then people usually hear it. It takes a little bit, but then they\u2019re usually able to say, yeah, I could see that, and I still don\u2019t want to change it, but we eventually get there when they notice the impact.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I appreciate what you\u2019re saying, but I imagine you work with some people who want to preserve their individualism and aren\u2019t quite signing up for this contract the way you\u2019ve described it, of being in this unit together, making these unit-like decisions.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Yeah, I\u2019m kind of a provocative therapist, so I just tell them, I don\u2019t know why you\u2019re in a relationship then because you can\u2019t be individualistic and be in a relationship. So it\u2019s your choice. I can either help you to become more relational or you can be individualistic, but the problems will stay the same. And that doesn\u2019t mean you lose your individuality. You keep that. That\u2019s really important. You still need to have your own personality, your own interests, your own space, all of those things. And you need to be able to have a sense of, I can see myself and I can see somebody else. I can see my partner still. When people start to become, and this mostly happens when they\u2019re in some sort of stress state, whether they are stressed because of the relationship or something else, but when they are only able to see themselves, this is what I want, this is what I need, this is I love me as I am.<\/span><\/p>\n

I want to do whatever I want or you change for me, but I\u2019m not going to change for you, whatever it is. Once that happens, it\u2019s very hard to make any movement in the relationship. And often when that\u2019s happening, what we have to resolve is what is making it hard for you to go into that vulnerable space of weakness? What is making it difficult to say, I can lean into this. Something\u2019s feeling like a threat here, and what could we do to relieve that distress so that you feel that you can still be you, but be a part of something and recognize your impact on other people and be willing to navigate that impact. There are certainly people who want to stay in that space. They won\u2019t move out of it, but I will say more people than not are willing to do that work. When you\u2019re doing that work with them on a deeper level and you\u2019re helping them to feel safe, and you\u2019re helping their bodies to feel safe and their minds to feel safe to explore, why do I feel like I need to be so tight around my individuality?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, you\u2019re a high-achieving person, Elizabeth. When I introduced you, I shared your many accomplishments, and you\u2019re not even 40. I\u2019m curious what intentional sacrifices, if any, you\u2019ve had to embrace as a high achiever?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> So a lot, I\u2019ve had to learn to let go of a lot of control. I\u2019ve had to find ways that I\u2019m delegating to people in my business, and I\u2019m finding ways that I make mistakes. I leave at a certain time no matter what. And if things aren\u2019t perfect, they\u2019re not perfect. And what that has meant is I don\u2019t have rapid growth like I did at one time with my business. My business does well, I\u2019m still responsible, but I\u2019m not rapidly growing, right? I\u2019m recognizing that that had impact. I left a job you mentioned I was working with ours, and it was something that I really loved and it was exciting. And right before I was about to have my daughter, Simone, I said to them, I can\u2019t do this and I could do it. I was fitting it into all of the places where it didn\u2019t really fit, but I was fitting it in.<\/span><\/p>\n

But I had to make that sacrifice of stepping away. And what that meant was that other people kind of came in and took my place and I\u2019m not a part of the decision making there or any of those types of things. So those were two big intentional sacrifices. Smaller ones have been that I don\u2019t agree to sign up for as many things anymore. Like I said before, I was very much, yes, I\u2019ll make it work. I\u2019m going to come to all the games. I\u2019m going to do the library thing. I\u2019m going to be the cookie mom. I\u2019m going to do all of that. And I don\u2019t do those things as much anymore. And so I\u2019ve had to make a lot, my husband has had to make a lot as well, and we\u2019ve made a lot together.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> So I want to just briefly share, as we\u2019re coming to a conclusion here, how reading <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part<\/span><\/i> impacted me, which is I suddenly started\u2014and I mean, you\u2019d have to say, \u201cTami, really? Suddenly?\u201d\u2014but I started looking at my partner\u2019s stress and I hadn\u2019t been. I was too obsessed with my own. I hadn\u2019t really been thinking about and considering and empathizing what all of the different stressors were that were impacting her life and considering that. And I thought even just that, that eye-opening lens, and also sharing more about the stressors in my life and naming them. And so the power to me, one power in the book was simply saying, oh, use this language in your vision and in your seeing of your partner and yourself and put it all out there. What else are you hoping will be the takeaways for people who read <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part<\/span><\/i>?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> I\u2019m glad you have that takeaway because that\u2019s truly eye open. When I\u2019m working with couples, they\u2019re like, oh, yes, I will start using this language. So using the language and starting to see it in your life, once you start seeing that, it opens up a completely different narrative of what\u2019s going on, and it\u2019s much easier than to have empathy and to communicate. The second thing that I want people to take away is that there\u2019s really two types of things that are impacting your stress levels. One, the things you cannot control. The other are things you can control. And I hope something that you take away from the book is, I have some control here. I have to learn to adapt, to regulate, to accept these certain things that are horrible or hard or exhausting. And maybe there\u2019s some things that we change in our life, even if it\u2019s challenging.<\/span><\/p>\n

Maybe we do have some power to make things feel a little bit better. And then I also want people just to learn how can you respond to each other in a different way so that you\u2019re not dysregulating each other so that you are able to say, oh wow, this is your distress. Let me show empathy instead of shutting you down or shooting a whole bunch of advice at you, or whatever it is. Let me show you some empathy or let me be calm right now while you are not feeling calm. So there\u2019s a lot of takeaways I hope, but I think those are some of the big ones.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Elizabeth Earnshaw, author of the new book <\/span>\u2019Til Stress Do Us Part<\/span><\/i>. Really helpful book. I highly recommend it. Thank you, Elizabeth. Thank you so much.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

EE:<\/b> Thank you. Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And if you\u2019d like to watch <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> on video and participate in the aftershow Q&A session with our guests, come join us on Sounds True One, a new membership community featuring award-winning original shows, live classes, community learning, guided meditations, and more with the leading wisdom teachers of our time. Use promo code PODCAST to get your first month free. You can learn more at join.soundstrue.com. Sounds True: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-23371","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nTil Stress Do Us Part - Transcript | Sounds True<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with Til Stress Do Us Part. 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