{"id":24533,"date":"2025-11-03T14:52:45","date_gmt":"2025-11-03T21:52:45","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=24533"},"modified":"2025-11-03T14:52:45","modified_gmt":"2025-11-03T21:52:45","slug":"tama-kieves-being-available-to-infinite-intelligence","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/tama-kieves-being-available-to-infinite-intelligence\/","title":{"rendered":"Tama Kieves: Being Available to Infinite Intelligence"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tama Kieves:<\/b> When you\u2019re not trusting yourself, when you\u2019re not listening to your love, when you\u2019re not listening to the light that is in you and only in you, when you\u2019re not doing what you\u2019re meant to do, supposed to hurt.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s supposed to feel empty. I wanna know what happens if I listen to a voice of love inside me instead of a voice of fear.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon: <\/b>Welcome friends. In this episode of Insights at the Edge. My guest is Tama Kes, an honors graduate of Harvard Law School, who left her law practice with a prestigious corporate law firm to write and also to help others unlock the extraordinary faculties that we all possess. Tama is the author of six books, including Thriving Through Uncertainty, a Year Without Fear and a new book.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s a book that I read. I have to be honest with you, I didn\u2019t know what to expect. And as I cracked it open and started reading it, it felt to me like sitting with a prayer book. It felt like a book I could center myself in, in my own deepest heart. But here\u2019s the really interesting thing. At the same time, I laughed out loud with this prayer book on every other page.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s called Learning to Trust Yourself, breaking Through the Blocks That Hold You Back. And that\u2019s what we\u2019re gonna be talking about. Tamma welcome.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> I am so excited to be here, so honored.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> You and I have something in common. People in your life have called you, uh, a doubting tam, and people have called me that too. Uh, it\u2019s interesting, you question everything, and at the same time, you\u2019re the most faithful person I\u2019ve ever met. This is a description that you, uh, shared that one of your friends said about you.<\/span><\/p>\n

So right here at the, at the beginning, what\u2019s it like for you to balance this questioning mind and faithful inner knowing at the same time?<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Well, well first of all, who said there\u2019s balance anywhere in this mind, but thank you of. You know, I, I think, I think I want people to know that you can be extraordinarily faithful and extraordinarily inspired and on fire and committed to your life. And you could be doubting like crazy. Uh, you know, and my mind has both faculties. My mind goes back and forth and back and forth, but I believe it\u2019s part of the path. I believe that\u2019s how we learn to trust ourselves, is that we, we go into situations that maybe make our, uh, us doubt ourselves. learn how to be with that. And we learn how to rise and we learn how to choose another intelligence.<\/span><\/p>\n

So my doubt in its own way has actually made me stronger. If, if I wasn\u2019t a doubtful person, I would never have sought out spirituality. I would never have been looking for anything. I, I, I just, you know, I just wanted to get by, be successful, whatever. But it was so much pain or so much of self-doubt in my life and so much of doubt in my dreams and doubt in my desires that made me seek out something higher.<\/span><\/p>\n

So I think they play well together. And I, you know, and, and for me a lot of times, you know, when I, when I lead a workshop or I\u2019m, uh, leading a retreat, I\u2019ll always tell people that, you know, the fact that I have fears, the fact that I, um, am still going through things. Sometimes this is good for you. It means I\u2019m at my growth edge.<\/span><\/p>\n

It means I\u2019m growing, it means I\u2019m focusing. Right. I don\u2019t have it all together. Right. And that makes, that makes me a better teacher sometimes because I can, if they have an issue, I can relate whatever issue you have, I have it. I\u2019ve had it. Right. Um, so, uh, I just wanted people to know at the outset with learning to trust yourself that you didn\u2019t quote, have to be good at it.<\/span><\/p>\n

This is the practice. It\u2019s, it\u2019s a, it\u2019s a mindfulness practice.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Part of the premise that I love in learning to trust yourself is that we\u2019re undoing the blocks to trust. You go further to the awareness of love\u2019s presence. What I like about this is that we\u2019re not adding something on as much as undoing some type of kink in the hose or covering or obscuration, and to begin with, I wonder how you see this, this notion of uncovering blocks.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> yes, yes, yes. I think that\u2019s really what we\u2019re doing at this time in life. You know, to really be alive is to undo any block or any doubt or any pain that has ever stopped you before that. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s about self-improvement. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s so much about I have to learn to be better and better and better. I wanna learn to be me. I wanna learn to be who I\u2019m really, really meant to be. And so often we don\u2019t even realize that these blocks are holding us back. That and what? \u2019cause, because the blocks seem real, they seem normal. They seem realistic, right? They, you know, so the, the most common one, for instance, is, uh. We think we\u2019re being realistic, we think we\u2019re being practical. We don\u2019t realize that no, actually that might be a way of not listening to your deepest, deepest truth. So I, I\u2019m just gonna give you an example because you know, I\u2019m, uh, you know, I always do examples and it\u2019s how I came to all this work. And, uh, because a block in my own mind of being realistic almost stopped me from my greatest life, my destiny, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

So, um, when I was younger, I, when I was very younger, I knew that I wanted to write. That was my dream. I loved writing and I took, uh, creative writing in high school, and the teacher was gorgeous. So I thought, oh my God, it\u2019s a sign, you know? And I went, I went home to share this news that I had found my calling.<\/span><\/p>\n

I wanna be a writer, but I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, and my family was Orthodox Jewish. And my mother just said something like, you are gonna write. You are gonna write, you are gonna starve, you\u2019re gonna write. And that was it. That was the go for your dreams talk. Um, and then she said something, uh, practical or reasonable.<\/span><\/p>\n

Like what? You can\u2019t get a job. You\u2019ll write on the Sundays, right? And so many of us hear this advice, be practical. Be reasonable, stay safe. Don\u2019t listen to what\u2019s inside you. Don\u2019t listen to what moves. You don\u2019t listen to what calls you. And so I listened and I, you know, I listened to her. I listened to what I was supposed to do, like many of us do. I went to law school. I got accepted to Harvard Law School. I graduated with honors from Harvard Law School. My mother was very proud, bragging in every synagogue. Um, but I was on partnership track in a major law firm. I felt so empty and in so much pain because I had success. The way you\u2019re supposed to have success, what the world tells you.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you have this, you\u2019ll be okay. If you have that, you\u2019ll be okay. And I just felt like, oh my God, what is wrong with me? I don\u2019t feel okay. And here\u2019s what\u2019s supposed to happen. When you\u2019re not trusting yourself, when you\u2019re not listening to your love, when you\u2019re not listening to the light that is in you and only in you, the gifts that you have to give humanity, when you\u2019re not doing what you\u2019re meant to do, supposed to hurt.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s supposed to feel empty. And so thank God, a friend at the time said, you know, think about it. If you\u2019ve been this successful doing something you don\u2019t love, what could you do with what you love? that\u2019s what began my entire journey. That\u2019s, that\u2019s what started everything is I thought, get one life. I wanna know what happens if I listen to a voice of love inside me instead of a voice of fear. For me, that\u2019s what learning to trust yourself is all about, is how do you listen to that voice of love, that voice of a higher intelligence that\u2019s connected to your greatest potential. Right? And most of us are blocking ourselves thinking, I have to be realistic.<\/span><\/p>\n

I have to be practical. Instead of following that energy that\u2019s gonna take you all the way.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> You know, I have to bring up and I will throughout our conversation, the potential pain and disappointment of people who are listening, who are partially inspired by the sparkling possibilities of what you\u2019re describing. But also like, guess what? Tamma, I did that. I did the unreasonable thing. I tried it and it didn\u2019t work out.<\/span><\/p>\n

It didn\u2019t work out, and now I\u2019m here listening to you and I have this, I, I, I tried, I made, I took this risk and, you know, it fell apart. And, and now I, I have this sense of failure and yet also longing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> yes, yes. So well put. Um, that is such a good question and I\u2019m really glad you brought it up \u2019cause it\u2019s such a good distinction. I\u2019m a coach and I deal with that question every day and, and it\u2019s an excellent question. And here\u2019s the thing. When you follow that inner voice, that inner inspiration, that spark, right? about having a relationship with yourself of kindness, of patience, of follow through. And it doesn\u2019t mean that just because I have a dream that Oh, I\u2019m gonna follow my guidance and I\u2019m gonna make a million dollars, right? It doesn\u2019t mean that that form is what\u2019s gonna happen. It does mean that if you stay in touch with yourself, you are gonna grow. What happens to most of us is that something didn\u2019t happen the way we wanted and we shut down. We just get disappointed. Like you said, I\u2019ve gone through that. You get disappointed. You think, yeah, this doesn\u2019t work. Manifestation. Yeah. Right. Of you know of and you shut down and that\u2019s the problem. The only thing I\u2019m ever trying to get people to is opening their heart again to themselves and to their lives.<\/span><\/p>\n

And it is the willingness to say, I don\u2019t know the form this needs to take. I don\u2019t know even my highest happiness, but I\u2019m gonna follow this energy and I\u2019m not gonna shut down. And so to give you a practical example, it took, it took me 12 years to write my very first book. Um, I left law, it took me 12. It was not like instant like woo-hoo.<\/span><\/p>\n

I just trust that it happens. And it didn\u2019t mean it got published right away either. Um, it took me 12 years to write it. I went through disappointment after disappointment after disappointment, and I just kept coming back and going, don\u2019t know what else to do. This feels right. And one of the things I tell everybody I speak to is I always tell the story of that it took 12 years is because I try to tell people it took 11 years. For me to believe in myself and 11 years to believe that there was a universe that cared about me, that I could trust that 11 years to believe in something higher, 11 years to believe I was worth something, and one year to write a book. So things take time because the ultimate goal of this path isn\u2019t just the form, but the growth, the relationship I\u2019m having with myself.<\/span><\/p>\n

Even if I had never published that book, right, I would\u2019ve been disappointed as a human being. I grew so much. I stood up for myself. I stayed with something, even though it wasn\u2019t, I changed forms. I adapted. I, I kept going. I kept believing. I would be guided, and I was, and I look back every day and think, oh my God, what if I hadn\u2019t trusted that?<\/span><\/p>\n

Oh my God, what if I hadn\u2019t listened? So if so, if a listener is listening and thinking, yeah, I am never dating again because I tried trusting, and then I da dated the psychopath or the narcissist or whatever. It\u2019s hard. I, I hear you. I\u2019m the first one. I, I suffer from like, immediate looking for disappointment.<\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s a, there\u2019s radar in me that\u2019s always looking for it, I have to keep coming back to opening my heart again. I\u2019m willing to believe in my life again. And the reason I\u2019m willing to believe in my life again \u2019cause this is the only life I\u2019ve got that I know of. And I wanna be available. I wanna open up because if I shut down it\u2019s game over. It\u2019s not only game over to that particular dream, it\u2019s game over to all dreams, right? So all I\u2019m ever trying to do is help people see they\u2019re learning, how they\u2019re growing, how they\u2019re, how they\u2019re being moved, you know, because sometimes people will say, like you said, I listened and it didn\u2019t work out.<\/span><\/p>\n

I had a client years ago who started a business and she said, Tim, I tried that. I listened. I started the business. And yeah, it was working a little bit, but then I went bankrupt, right? And so I talked to her more and what had happened was she had listened and then she stopped listening. She had, she had assumed the guidance was to keep the store open and just keep the store open no matter what.<\/span><\/p>\n

Even though she was getting guidance at the time that I\u2019m tired, I don\u2019t really feel like this anymore. She wasn\u2019t listening to that. So for me, this isn\u2019t a one-time thing. This is a constant, constant, you know, listening to the nuances It\u2019s taken me a billion years to realize this, but it is, it is a truth that I now serve. I do not, and it\u2019s a lot that I talk about in learning to trust yourself. not about the form of our lives. It\u2019s not about what the, our lives look like. It\u2019s what it feels like. And we get to determine what it feels like. We get to determine what we focus on, you know, so when I left law, I, I downsized everything.<\/span><\/p>\n

I lived in a tiny little studio apartment in Capitol Hill, and, you know, I was super poor and, you know, and I would like, you know, what it looked like, you know, when I get my Harvard alumni magazines, their bathrooms were bigger than, you know, like my entire living space. And I would feel bad and compare myself, but if I were just listening to what it felt like. It felt exciting. I was on an adventure and I was really proud of myself for trying, and I was giving myself a chance, and I was going beyond what it looked like and I was staying in touch, right? So I\u2019m always trying to help people stay in touch with what\u2019s working in their lives and why they\u2019re doing what they\u2019re doing.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, great question. Thank<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Well, also, and just to take a moment, I\u2019m so glad you stuck with writing, uh, those 12 years to write your first book and now six books because you\u2019re a gorgeous writer. And<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Oh,<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> I don\u2019t laugh out loud easily. I don\u2019t, I wish I did. I don\u2019t. And you know how to tickle my funny bone in your writing, Tam. It\u2019s really true.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> God.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Towards the end of the book, you talk about two practices that we can use to help us to continue on this journey of trusting ourself. And I, I wanna especially talk about one of them. The first one, which is be kind to you. And then the second practice that, uh, you offer is to choose again, choose again.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think you\u2019ve already sort of underscored this notion that even if we\u2019ve been disappointed, we can choose again. But this be kind to you, I wanna find out. What you do when you hear a voice inside that\u2019s not kind, and how you can help our listeners who perhaps are hearing such a voice even as they\u2019re listening to you now.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Perfect question. Um, first of all, I\u2019ll back up and I\u2019ll say it was a revelation for me to say that the practice was to be kind to myself. That was like, that was a new thing to really, really own that because I grew up in a culture, an alpha centric, achievement oriented culture that like you\u2019re not doing wealth and push harder. Buck up, right? Make it work. What\u2019s wrong with you? Other people can do it. So I had a very, and still have a very critical voice, and I had a belief that, that cri secretly, I had a belief that that critical voice was necessary for my success. I believe that if I was kinder, well, I just watch Netflix and just hang out, eating in chocolate bar milk, chocolate mind you of, you know of, and that I, I wouldn\u2019t accomplish anything or do anything.<\/span><\/p>\n

And it has been the revelation of my lifetime and probably the point of my lifetime to, uh, be kind, to be incredibly kind to this vessel, to this being that serves this one light. Like I believe each of us has a singular path that, that, uh, that we are meant. To serve the gifts that are in us. And I\u2019ll just say one other quick thing before I say how to do it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Um, is that another huge revelation for me. So I studied Course in Miracles and I teach Course in Miracles and have for decades. Um, and it\u2019s a path of living in love instead of fear. And it\u2019s all about hearing your higher intelligence and all of that, right? What I never realized and what I came to for myself was I can\u2019t hear a loving voice in the universe while I\u2019m being critical of myself. I can\u2019t hear God, I can\u2019t hear the universe. I can\u2019t hear the Shakti, whatever, I can\u2019t hear whatever it is, you know, like whatever. It\u2019s whatever you\u2019re supposed to hear, right? I will not hear that. I will not feel that. While I\u2019m being cruel to myself because it\u2019s a different frequency, right? When I\u2019m on that energy of this is wrong with you and why can\u2019t you get it together and what\u2019s, you know, and you\u2019re so old already and you\u2019re, you\u2019re thinking of this now and blah, blah, blah.<\/span><\/p>\n

When I\u2019m on that frequency, I am no longer available to the genius that\u2019s available to all of us. So being kind to myself has become a deeply spiritual path because I realize I want to serve this flow of energy, this flow of intelligence, these gifts, these creative gifts. I am a creative person for a living, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s what I do. And. I have to stay available to that. I cannot write well when I\u2019m criticizing myself. Go figure. believe me, I hear that all the time. I\u2019ll be writing and my critical voice will go, really? You\u2019re gonna use the word the again. Really? You know? Oh, you\u2019re so creative of, right. You can\u2019t hear the flow.<\/span><\/p>\n

The flow, the flow. So that\u2019s, that\u2019s, I just wanted to back up and<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> It\u2019s a very, very important point, so I\u2019m glad you\u2019re underscoring it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Yeah. That why being kind is so important. Um, and so there\u2019s a million different ways probably. People have to get their their own. And I will always say, by the way, find your path. Find your way. Right?<\/span><\/p>\n

Like, use the teachers that serve you. If, if it\u2019s not resonating for you, it\u2019s not your way, right? I took your thinking, oh my God, they do it that way. That must be the right way. How come I can\u2019t get it? Until I started realizing, oh, \u2019cause I have my way if I trust myself. So. The main thing I personally do, um, there\u2019s a few things I personally do, but, um, the main thing I do is, um, I know that there\u2019s two different voices within me.<\/span><\/p>\n

A lot of times we think there\u2019s like 5,000 different voices in us, and there probably are of, but there\u2019s love or fear, right? There\u2019s, there\u2019s just different perceptions of way to see it. And so while that critical voice or that unruly protector or whatever, uh, is talking and it feels very, very real. I have to remind myself it\u2019s not the ultimate reality.<\/span><\/p>\n

It feels real, but it\u2019s not necessarily the truth. So I have a technique that I personally have used for years, uh, that I call the inspired self dialogues. Um, and it\u2019s you and I talked to, I talked to you very briefly before we talked, um, and it\u2019s, it\u2019s a tool that I\u2019m gonna offer to the Sounds True<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Wonderful.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> I\u2019ll tell a little. I\u2019ll tell a little bit about it. Uh, for me personally, and I, I inflicted on all my clients, I inflicted on all my workshops, I inflicted everywhere. For me personally, it is nothing that cha was the game changer for me. It was nothing because I have a busy mind. Um, I\u2019m sure you can\u2019t imagine that.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m sure that\u2019s like really hard to, hard to see. But, uh, go with me, um, of, I have a very busy mind and I admire the heck out of people who can find that infinite quiet and, and still the mind or whatever. That was not my way initially of I have to honor the busy mind. So I have to write out my fears and I have to listen to that concerns and the frustration or the anger or whatever it is. And then I, I have a technique that I\u2019ll, that it teaches you how to listen to. An extraordinary voice of a higher love. Um, and different people get there in different ways, and I walk you through that. But of just that there is what I will say, just in general, everybody, everybody, I don\u2019t care who you are, everybody has a voice of infinite intelligence within them.<\/span><\/p>\n

Within them, that that is available at. Any time it is that it is the negative voice that\u2019s blocking it. Right? Um, and so for me, I write to the, I write about the fears, but then I write to that other voice and I dialogue back and forth. So like I said, um, it\u2019s, I call it my best, my number one best tool \u2019cause it is.<\/span><\/p>\n

Um, and uh, and, and I know you probably will put it in the show notes, but um, if people are interested, it\u2019s at tkes.com, T-A-M-A-K-I-E-V-E s.com\/best-tool. And it\u2019s a short little video I created that just trains you, you do it with me right then and there, and I want you to do it. I really want you to have that experience of what I want for people, uh, whether it\u2019s through the inspired self dialogues or it\u2019s through anything else. I want people to have the experience of knowing that even though they feel like they\u2019re critical and they feel like they\u2019re broken and they feel like they\u2019re too young or they\u2019re too old, or they\u2019re not smart enough, or they, they\u2019re too overwhelmed with everything, or in our society now, too anxious of, there is a deeper intelligence and an infinite love. That can handle anything at any moment. And, and for me, it\u2019s been the ultimate training of my life to learn how to listen to it. Um, and one of the coolest moments of my life, um, there\u2019s was, you know, I, I do it in writing. I have, I\u2019m a writer, so I have to see it and I have to write it, whatever. Um, but after a while, I think I created enough of a real relationship that I could just hear it. And one of the coolest things that ever happened to me was, um, it was years ago and I, I had led my first women\u2019s retreat. I\u2019d never led a retreat before and it was years ago. And I\u2019d led my first women\u2019s retreat and nobody left. And nobody hated me and nobody like wanted all their money back and, and therapy on top of it of, you know of, so it was after the retreat and I was flying down the mountain, I was driving down this, the hills of this mountain.<\/span><\/p>\n

I had the radio turned up. It\u2019s like I\u2019m a retreat facilitator. Oh my god. You know? And I was so excited and I was. I heard an inner voice out of nowhere that just said, oh honey, slow down. Oh honey, slow down. And I burst into tears. And the reason I burst into tears was because it was a kind voice that said, oh honey, slow down.<\/span><\/p>\n

It wasn\u2019t a voice that said, slow down, you idiot. What\u2019s wrong with you? \u2019cause that\u2019s what I would\u2019ve heard. That\u2019s always what I would\u2019ve heard. And so it made me realize, oh my God, I\u2019ve been integrating this voice. And on a practical level, it serves you immensely because, um, I was doing an interview some years ago on a b, c news or, you know, on TV or whatever.<\/span><\/p>\n

I was scared outta my mind. I was really excited, but I was scared and, and I\u2019m, I\u2019m on there. And then my stupid critical voice starts talking to me while I am talking. You know, like while I\u2019m, whatever I\u2019m hearing it like, oh, you\u2019re not doing well. It\u2019s, you know, you know they\u2019re not gonna like you or whatever. I just stopped it in its tracks. I just said, no, not now, honey. We\u2019re not doing that. We\u2019re gonna give our love. We\u2019re gonna show up. And it was amazing. I was able to just truly let that flow of information, that flow of gifts. So I want everybody to be able to access their gifts, their genius, their creativity, their intelligence, especially now, right in the world we live in, that needs more love, not less. Uh, every time you are kind to yourself, a politician grows wings, Or just maybe, who knows? I\u2019m not touching that. I\u2019m not touching that of, um, every time you\u2019re kinder to yourself. it\u2019s an act of incredible invincible power that is allowing something deeper to happen. You are, you are returning to who you are and you know, everybody\u2019s always looking for their life purpose and their life purpose. If you can\u2019t find a life purpose, I\u2019ll give you one. And that is just to the love inside you. Be kinder to you. Be, make the rest of your life being a commitment to, I have, I have been in entrusted being a steward of this one being this, this person called Tamma, right? Of I need to learn how to love her.<\/span><\/p>\n

I need to learn how to be with her. I need to learn how to reassure her and how to, and how to have faith. Right? So to me, I think it\u2019s one of the best life purposes you\u2019ll ever have is, um, being more gracious with yourself because it changes everything.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Tama, I\u2019m curious what you make of an experience I\u2019m about to share in broad stroke terms. And if you\u2019ve ever had an experience like this in your life where you felt you were definitely listening to higher guidance, you could say your inner teacher and everything in you resonated with, yes, this is it, this is it, this is it.<\/span><\/p>\n

You walked all the way down to the end of the road and then you saw the dead end side. It didn\u2019t, it didn\u2019t work, but you were listening the whole time and feeling it, but it was off.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> One of the sections in learning to trust yourself has this notion that it\u2019s almost like we can be a GPS that recalculates like recalculating.<\/span><\/p>\n

And that\u2019s what happened in my case. I was like, oh, you\u2019re gonna have to recalculate and it\u2019s okay. But it also left me with a questioning, like maybe, I don\u2019t know, like these times when I think this is really right now, I\u2019m like, God, I don\u2019t know. Maybe, maybe not.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. First of all, I would have infinite compassion for that. The first thing I would do to anybody who\u2019s ever gone through an experience like that, before I even figured it out, what it meant, what I should do, heartbreaking, right? It\u2019s just so, it\u2019s heartbreaking. And to the, to the being that believed and walked down and was gonna do it, you know, of first I would just offer a lot of compassion.<\/span><\/p>\n

But I, I will say, first of all, I, I do believe in the GPS If GPS can reroute us, so can the universe, right? Of, and GPS never goes, you dumb moron. Why did you turn right? I thought I told you left right? It never does that. Right. Um, it does sound a little snarky sometimes, like recalculating root of, um, but, uh, the main thing I would say, the main thing I will say, to answer your question, so again, I, I\u2019ve taught a course in Merkels for decades and that\u2019s, that\u2019s the source of a lot of my wisdom or a lot of my training or a lot of my whatever. So. The course in Miracles for me has helped a lot because there\u2019s one of the lessons that says, I do not perceive my own best interests. I do not perceive my own best interests. Right? And so what that means is, um, that sometimes something\u2019s happening and we don\u2019t realize the way that it is good or what it\u2019s for, or that, again, we live in a culture that is so, material that is so appearance oriented.<\/span><\/p>\n

If I do these steps, I\u2019ll have a bestseller. If I do these steps, I\u2019ll me, I\u2019ll, I\u2019ll be thin and everybody will love me if blah, blah, blah. I don\u2019t think a spiritual journey is about that. I wish it was There\u2019s times where I wish it was, I could just follow some formula and it would work right of, but I really think it\u2019s about me growing and healing.<\/span><\/p>\n

So sometimes the devastating<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Part of your book, trusting Yourself, that moved me the most. You might find this surprising Tama. It\u2019s the writing that you did about your mom and your dad and your journey with both of them. And I wanna talk about that because I think sometimes when people think, God, you know, I, I\u2019d trust myself more if I was raised with a mother and father who created a very loving, holding space for me where I felt safe and I knew I belonged.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I developed trust at a young age. And you, uh, dispel such notions that it\u2019s possible to actually. As we grow, provide that holding space for ourselves actually such that we can then offer it to our parents. And you tell a very moving story, both about your time with your father and then your time with your mother.<\/span><\/p>\n

That occurred before they died. And I found these healing stories. They just, uh, I mean I wept when I read both of them. I really loved them. And I wonder if you can share them both with us, especially for all of those people listening who had, you know, difficult childhoods.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Yeah. Yeah. Um, I, I, I love that my parents are yet serving, are yet serving humanity of um, you know, part of my own healing. Because I certainly went down that train of how come I didn\u2019t get a good mother? You know? How come I didn\u2019t get that nurturing mother? Like, I would always be jealous, you know, like I\u2019d have a student that goes, oh, my mother so gets me my mother.<\/span><\/p>\n

Oh, she bought this thing. \u2019cause she knew that one day I, on a Wednesday, I looked at this one thing and she remembered it and Lala and I\u2019d like wanna scream like what your mother paid attention to you, you know, of. Um, but one of the things I will say, because I so wanted more than anything else in this lifetime to be heard, to be seen, to be cared about, to be valued, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

To, to be seen. I think it gave me my life\u2019s calling because one of the things that I do have as a gift is on my watch. Everyone will be seen. You know, like I know that my students would probably say that in workshops or classes or whatever, that I\u2019m always beholding people. I\u2019m always listening. I deeply listen to people.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I think it came, that gift came from such a hunger, from such a desperate need to have that myself. So now I give it to others. And again, it\u2019s a Course in Miracles principle. Um, and it\u2019s not, it\u2019s not only the course in miracles, but um, that the more that we give, right, the more that we give in life, our smallness disappears.<\/span><\/p>\n

So I could spend the rest of my life, and I spent a lot of my life. So I know this, I researched this of, of, I could spend a lot of my life waiting for people to give to me. Why don\u2019t they support me? Why don\u2019t they get me? Who\u2019s gonna listen? Who\u2019s gonna love me? I\u2019ve spent the rest of my life now deciding I\u2019m going to be the person who gives, I\u2019m going to be the larger presence in the room.<\/span><\/p>\n

Not because I\u2019m better, not because it\u2019s moral, not because I\u2019m trying to prove something, but because I end up being happier when I let that love come through me. I end up being happier. So the story I think you\u2019re talking about with my dad was just a, an amazing, amazing experience. I spent years in therapy going, why won\u2019t he?<\/span><\/p>\n

He doesn\u2019t care about me, he doesn\u2019t ask questions about me, he\u2019s not interested in my life. And, um, and I, you know, we\u2019d always sit on the front I\u2019d, I live in Denver and I\u2019d go home to New York and, uh, we\u2019d visit on the front porch and he\u2019d always be talking about delta flies over here twice a day. And American Airlines goes over here.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I\u2019d think, are you kidding me? I\u2019ve just flown 2000 miles away. And this is what you\u2019re gonna talk about. Don\u2019t you wanna know what\u2019s your deepest, meaningful moment in your life right now? Precious daughter doesn\u2019t, doesn\u2019t that enter your mind? So I\u2019d be, I\u2019d be so frustrated always right. One year I went home and I decided, I\u2019m done asking him to be different. I\u2019m gonna be different. And I\u2019m done asking him to change. I\u2019m just gonna be with him. I\u2019m just gonna be present and I\u2019m gonna be the presence of love for him. Right. Instead of judging him. And uh, and so it was really amazing \u2019cause we sat on the porch and he was doing the thing about the airlines or whatever. And I, and I just said, really, I\u2019m curious, does Southwest ever fly over here? Does, you know, does Southwest come? I love the blue and the red on their tails, you know? Um, and he\u2019s like, oh no, I haven\u2019t seen that one. And, you know, and then we talk about something else. And out of nowhere he put his arm around me. Right. And it was just this amazing moment because I think he felt not judged right? And it wasn\u2019t that he then had an Oprah moment with me and asked me my deepest whatever. I also think that my father couldn\u2019t ask me things. He was afraid of intimacy. I also think he judged the heck out of my life. I was not doing what he wanted.<\/span><\/p>\n

I had left law. I wasn\u2019t married. I was, I was living in crazy places like Denver, you know, of. Um, and so, like, for him not asking was almost his truce, you know? But, but my kindness of just being present and being in his world helped him enter my world. And I\u2019ll tell you what, I felt better about myself as a human being. Um, and so I, I had a, a moment like that even more. Um, as you said, with my mother, it\u2019s probably the one of the. Most amazing things I\u2019ve ever done in my life. Um, not conscious, not like I planned this, but, uh, again, I was visiting New York. Um, I was teaching out there and my mother lived upstate. My brother lived upstate.<\/span><\/p>\n

And, um, I wanted to see them \u2019cause I was in New York, right? And so nobody would come to the city to see me, right? So my, my brother had a very important pressing thing. He had to go to the mall or something like that, like, just something of, um, my mother wouldn\u2019t take a train into the city, even though she\u2019d take a train into the city for other things, but not her daughter visiting.<\/span><\/p>\n

Um, and so I started forming this grievance in my mind. Like, see, I\u2019m just insignificant to my family. They won\u2019t even, like, nobody even cares about me. They\u2019re not even gonna take a train to see me. And, uh, thank God, because of course in miracles, you know, for me, I knew that was a grievance and it was getting me upset.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I just thought, okay, what\u2019s another way to see this? What\u2019s another way to see this? Right? Um, and all of a sudden I realized. I don\u2019t have to be a victim, they won\u2019t come to see me. I will go to see them. Right? And like, and it was heroic seriously because it was, uh, I had to take like a, a bus and a train and a cab and a, and then I had to take it all the way back.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then I had to go to the airport after. It was like a crazy thing to do, but I just got so much energy in me and I thought, I\u2019m gonna do it. I wanna see them. And I decided I wanted my mother to feel special. I just wanted to, I wanted her to feel loved. \u2019cause I knew she\u2019d never gotten much love. And yes, I had my stuff against her about wanting, wanting her to love me or whatever.<\/span><\/p>\n

But, um, we were in her, uh, little apartment and, and, uh, she had a little shopping problem shopped all the time with catalogs and whatever. And her closets were just burgeoning. Uh, and. I also am not some neat freak and have issues organizing, but like out of nowhere I just had this moment of feeling wanna help her instead of judging her.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u2019cause I was judging her like, oh, look at this and she\u2019s materialistic and whatever. And I decided to help her clean her closet. And at first she resisted me \u2019cause she was like, you know, oh no way, no way. I don\u2019t want that. Right? I just said, mom, we\u2019re gonna do this really lovingly. I will not judge you for anything you have full say.<\/span><\/p>\n

I will just be here. I\u2019m just curious if you really need the 25 green shirts. I\u2019m just cur. If you do, that\u2019s fine. But, uh, maybe 24 would be okay. I mean, like, so I just started playing with her and teasing her we started laughing and throwing away like big moo she didn\u2019t need or God knows what or, and it was this like holy, insane moment.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u2019cause I was doing for her what she never did for me. was being a parent to her in a way that she had never been to me. I was being a parent to her in a way that I hope to God I will parent myself for the rest of my life. That I wanna learn how to be that loving and giving and patient and nonjudgmental. And it, I felt like I was high. I felt like I was on God knows what Kundalini energy of God knows what of, and it was just something that just happened. And then I took the trains back home and, you know, there was somebody on the new, because it\u2019s New York. Somebody was singing New York, New York, you know, so we\u2019re all singing on the train.<\/span><\/p>\n

It was like, was an amazing experience of going beyond my story of what I needed from her and what I needed from them. And deciding who do I wanna be in this life? This is my life. I wanna be this light. I wanna be this love. I wanna give to people what I want, what I need, because I learn how, because it grows me.<\/span><\/p>\n

I, I once heard a, an inner voice. I was. Angry of like, why do I have to be the loving one? They were mean to me. Why do I have to be the person who grows? Why can\u2019t they grow? And I, I heard an inner voice that said, whoever is<\/span><\/p>\n

stronger in the lifetime will be the one who loves. And I realized, you know what? I\u2019ve had advantages my parents didn\u2019t have. I went to therapy. I went to God knows what, I went to healers. I went to Ave. I, you know, I\u2019ve, I\u2019ve done, I\u2019ve studied course. I had access to Oprah, tv, whatever I like, I had things they never had, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

And I thought for whatever reason, my soul came in strong this time. I don\u2019t know why. I don\u2019t know how, I don\u2019t always feel it. just thought, I\u2019m gonna be the one who loves. So it was, it was an amazing, and, and, and I did not know, but she, um, she was gonna have a car accident, you know, um, like maybe six months, a year later after that and died.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, I\u2019m so grateful. I\u2019m so grateful that I won\u2019t beyond my story to do that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Tam. I think part of what moves me about both of these stories, the one with your dad and your mom, is that they\u2019re so within reach of all of us in our own way with relationships in our lives. It\u2019s not necessarily like, you know, writing a book and getting it published or like, it\u2019s not, it\u2019s, it\u2019s, it\u2019s this immediate possible in some relationship, being the one who loves deciding to hold the space for the other perfect.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> And it changes everything. And if somebody\u2019s listening, going, oh my God, now I feel even more threatened. Oh my God, now this is horrible. Please keep in mind there is a time and place I didn\u2019t choose that. I didn\u2019t come in saying, no matter what, I\u2019m gonna love them. Uh, they, they can be hateful and I\u2019m gonna love them.<\/span><\/p>\n

Um, I, it was not an act of force. It was an act of receiving. I was ready. So I had years of being in pain. I had years of wishing it was otherwise right. And, and by the way. Just \u2019cause I had that moment didn\u2019t mean I didn\u2019t go right back to judging her at other times. I wanna tell you, oh, I didn\u2019t and it was gone forever.<\/span><\/p>\n

No, it\u2019s a life practice. All of these things we\u2019re talking about, they are life practices. We have this conditioning, like this conditioning of that tired mind, that autopilot, right? That just goes back into our old stories. And it is this life practice to trust ourselves, to trust something higher, to trust that love. every time we do, there\u2019s an experience that\u2019s in your bones and your cells. Now I know what it felt like to be that person. And again, it wasn\u2019t for her. The other thing that was amazing, my mother at one point said, and my mother didn\u2019t say stuff like this, but my mother at one point said, you have been the most loving person to me. Which was incredible. And there were days where I thought, well, why couldn\u2019t you love me? But that, that, I stopped that of. Um, but it was like, that\u2019s who I wanna be in this lifetime. That\u2019s part of what I wanna be in this lifetime. I wanna be the person who, um, shows up with the best of what I can be. And for all of us, that shows up in different ways, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

And I believe that there are people out there who have so many gifts and so much talent, and they\u2019re thinking, oh, well, who\u2019s gonna want it? Who needs it? Whatever. And it\u2019s like, oh God, I hope this is speaking to trusting that genuine impulse in you. Because what happens is if you follow that impulse to be more loving, to be kinder, to listen to your gifts, to follow your desire, it makes you stronger. It makes you stronger. You will never lose your gains. Things may happen that, you know, set us back again, but every gain I\u2019ve ever had, it lives with me and I get to decide what my reality is, is, you know, am I the person I am when I\u2019m inspired or am I the person when I\u2019m tired? Right. You know, it\u2019s like I get to choose my identity and which one I\u2019m serving.<\/span><\/p>\n

So I\u2019m hoping people are listening and gonna follow that love.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Let me make sure that I picked up on something you just put down, which is<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> You do it,<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> okay. Which is when we, because this is something you talk about in trusting yourself, learning to trust yourself, is if we follow the breadcrumbs of our desires, our longings, our sense of our genuine inspirations, that that moves us deeper into realizing our possibilities are, and that you\u2019re saying by following those breadcrumbs, \u2019cause I have some breadcrumbs, they\u2019re very impractical.<\/span><\/p>\n

The things that I am finding myself drawn to, uh, today in my sixties or, you know, and I\u2019m like, really? You\u2019re gonna do what? Whatcha you gonna spend your time doing? But it\u2019s, if doing that in and of itself will make me stronger, that\u2019s gonna make me stronger and more able to be this loving presence for others, which I want.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> yes, yes, yes, yes. You know, and it, and it goes so against our ordinary thought, like, exactly like what you just said. You\u2019re going to do what? like, that\u2019s crazy. Uh, with a world falling apart, you\u2019re gonna go do X, you know, like. But you know how I kept saying before that it\u2019s not the form of our lives, that it\u2019s not the, it\u2019s not what it looks like.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s where it\u2019s coming from, right? And it\u2019s, it\u2019s the motivation and it\u2019s like we don\u2019t know why we\u2019re drawn to do something. It may not be for the thing itself, it might be, but uh, just as an example, um, I know that if I write whether or not I publish or do anything with it, but if I\u2019m, if I write, if I, if I answer that calling in me, I tend to be a nicer person. So I, I have friends that like, if I\u2019m being crazy and just on something, I have friends that will say, H Honey, are you journaling? At least you know, which is a nice code way for, you\u2019re a crazy person<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Right.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Um, you know, but I\u2019m more, I am naturally more generous. When I\u2019m getting what I need, what the watering I need, the nurturing, I need, the soul food I need.<\/span><\/p>\n

Right. And what people don\u2019t really realize about breadcrumbs, right, is that first of all, a breadcrumb of like something that you\u2019re drawn to. It\u2019s, I always say chasing the heat, following the energy, right? It may not make sense to your linear mind, and that\u2019s the point. we are being invited into what we don\u2019t know, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

So the mind that thinks it knows is going well, that\u2019s not gonna work. And that\u2019s really stupid and dah, dah, dah da. And people don\u2019t make money doing that. So the mind that thinks its knows is judging, but the breadcrumb is coming from the realm leading you into what you don\u2019t even know about yourself and guiding you to other talents and abilities. And the other thing I always tell people is that one thing leads to another, leads to another, leads to another in ways that you can\u2019t expect. So I, I know when I first left law, the very first thing I felt guided to do, horrified me. \u2019cause I knew I wanted to write, but write what you know, like I do, you do write fiction, do you write essays?<\/span><\/p>\n

Do you write? And I kept secretly wanting to write poetry and I was like, oh God, could you, could you pick something less lucrative? Really? Could you, could you try for something more impractical if you tried? Um, and I thought, I don\u2019t even read those books. Like, oh my God. Um. But I finally started doing it because it was the only thing that kept talking to me. And what ended up happening was poetry started leading to writing these poetic essays about career transition. \u2019cause that\u2019s what I was going through. And I was scared outta my mind. And it was reading every self-help book on the planet. And it wasn\u2019t answering me. It was like Seven Steps to Your New Life, you know, and of, and so I was writing these poetic essays about being really real and I realized, oh, I think I\u2019m writing a book. And so I started writing my very first book. And then people, uh, then I realized I wanna be around other people, you know, like I\u2019m scared outta my mind. I wanna be around other creative people or people who are on a spiritual journey. And so I started a little support group, and then people said, you know, you\u2019re really good at this.<\/span><\/p>\n

You should consider teaching, you should consider guiding people. So. started teaching, I started teaching at a little adult class, you know, to, to begin with. And I just started teaching, you know, and, and people started really loving it. And then people started asking me, Hey, would you ever work with me individually?<\/span><\/p>\n

Would you ever help me find my dream or my calling, or whatever? And, um, this was back in the days where coaching wasn\u2019t a career yet. Um, and I\u2019m, you know, a former lawyer. So thinking, wait, is that therapy? Is that legal if I work one-on-one with person, you know, and then I think, well, they have money and I don\u2019t, so I think it\u2019s legal, you know, like I\u2019m, I\u2019m going for it. Um, so I started doing coaching before coaching even became a career. Uh, then people asked me to, would you ever take us away to the mountains and lead a retreat? So I started doing retreat. Literally one thing led to another, led to another, led to another in a billion years. Now I\u2019m on stages in different, all over different things.<\/span><\/p>\n

And just in a billion years, this is not where I knew it would go on some level, but like. never ended up becoming a poet per se, you know, but like one thing led to another, led to another. Sometimes we don\u2019t know why we\u2019re attracted to something. Right. Or, or just even, um, I had a friend who just recently had a kitten that came into her life and she just loved this kitten and it was a godsend \u2019cause she\u2019s in a really, really horrible place.<\/span><\/p>\n

And um, and the kitten just died recently and it was just tragic. It was really painful. But on another level. It\u2019s made her grieve and cry and get out this junk that\u2019s been inside her for so long about other disappointments and sadnesses. And so that\u2019s just such a good example of we don\u2019t know sometimes why something\u2019s there.<\/span><\/p>\n

Right? So like the breadcrumb, like I went to get the kitten and what was that for? It died within a few days, right? Like, to me that was a, that was a positive outcome, you know? And so again, from a course of miracles, I\u2019m always gonna look at not what\u2019s happening, but what am I making it mean? What\u2019s really behind it? So that\u2019s, that\u2019s where the<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Okay. I have two final questions for you, Tamma. One is that you described how this is an ongoing practice. It\u2019s not like there\u2019s some destination where you\u2019re 100% trusting 24 7 period. No. You, there\u2019s moments where you\u2019re like, oh, I gotta, are you journaling? Your friends ask you, you go back, you return great return.<\/span><\/p>\n

Return at the same time there is a trajectory that you\u2019re on with this practice. Would you say that you return. To listening to the inner teacher quicker. Would you say you spend more time in that intelligent energy, like that\u2019s, it\u2019s a directional thing, or how would you describe it?<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> That is so thank you. That is so good. Um, uh, yes. Uh, so I do not want to mislead people and think, oh, you never really get anywhere. You just do this forever. And nothing really changes. That\u2019s not, I, I\u2019m not that motivated. I\u2019m just not that motivated of, um. I will just speak for myself and, and for clients that I\u2019ve worked with of it gets infinitely better, infinitely better.<\/span><\/p>\n

Because even when I\u2019m crazy or doubting or scared, I now know how this works. I have lived it, I have been so scared and it worked and there was a trajectory and you know, that, that, uh, you know, I keep talking about my first book and taking 12 years or whatever. I had Miracle After Miracle happen with that.<\/span><\/p>\n

I, I, I got the guidance to self-publish that initially, which was terrifying to me. That was a breadcrumb I didn\u2019t want. \u2019cause it\u2019s like, oh, great, put your own money into something. And I didn\u2019t know anything about distribution or publishing or anything. And then it literally got discovered by somebody, you know, I\u2019ve called her my fairy godmother, where she literally found the book on Amazon and said it was the best book she\u2019d ever read on finding your calling and whatever.<\/span><\/p>\n

And she got it to the publishing house of my dreams. Um, and not only that, they, they not only bought the book, they didn\u2019t edit it, they didn\u2019t change the title, nothing. And I always, I always. Go back to the, my, my mind over and over like a touchstone, because it reminds me that if I\u2019d followed a conventional path, I would\u2019ve never gotten where I\u2019ve gotten. But, but you can\u2019t plan an inspired life, right? And so, so even when something\u2019s going wrong, now I go back to that story in my own soul of remembering how many doubts I had, how many fears I had, and my critical voice could go well. Yeah, that was great. You had a fluke then. But what about now? You know, I mean, like, it\u2019ll, it\u2019ll do that of, but I know, I know the reality of it.<\/span><\/p>\n

It just gets so much easier and you just have so much more evidence of it and you, you are training your mind. So here\u2019s the thing. When you have a different belief, mind will find different evidence. When you have a different belief in, you know, when I have a belief that things are working out for me, that I am led by an amazing universe.<\/span><\/p>\n

I am looking for the evidence of that, and that\u2019s what I\u2019m seeing when I have a belief that nothing\u2019s gonna work, it\u2019s never gonna go right, blah, blah, blah. That\u2019s what I\u2019m looking and seeing. And so me, it just, it\u2019s a training of focus. And it\u2019s the same thing, like if you do yoga, you know, uh, I\u2019m, I\u2019m not a good yoga person, you know, like of, but I got stronger even so I still can\u2019t do it like the teacher does it.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m never gonna look that gorgeous and graceful, but I\u2019m stronger than I ever was and I\u2019m not afraid anymore. so it\u2019s the same thing with this, like I have so much evidence of it now working that it takes you to a different level. So when I say that we keep going backwards and doubting, I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going backwards.<\/span><\/p>\n

I do wanna make that distinction. I don\u2019t think that we\u2019re ever going backwards. We\u2019re just cleaning up another doubt. We\u2019re just refining it like, oh look, honey, you still have some residue here. Let\u2019s explore that. We love you so much, we want you so clear. We\u2019re gonna look at that one belief again. Not \u2019cause you\u2019re going backwards, but because you\u2019re strong enough now to choose differently. And so I\u2019m, I\u2019m gonna forever be growing and I think the doubts are gonna come up in me because I\u2019m going to edges I\u2019ve never gone to before. I\u2019m trying, I\u2019m, you know, I\u2019m being more loving than I\u2019ve tried before. I\u2019m, I\u2019m being more trusting than I\u2019ve ever, ever tried. I\u2019m doing bigger things in my life than I\u2019ve ever done before, so my fears are gonna come up, but that\u2019s a good thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

The whole purpose is for them to come up so that I can choose again, so that I can say, yes, they are here and I will love them with all my heart, and I\u2019ll love me with all my heart, and I\u2019ll still hold my own hand and I\u2019ll still go forward with the next<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> I think one thing I just want to clarify, I wanna make sure I understand what you mean by stronger. Like if you were, say, Tammy, this is what I mean, like I\u2019ve gotten stronger through this work and<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> that, you know, fill in the strength,<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Great, great, great. Que great question. Um, uh, like, just even, even, uh, like, just a simple thing might be like, uh, let\u2019s say I am. Talking to you. I\u2019m<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> imagine.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> Simon. You know, believe me, before I got on here, I was like, oh my God, I\u2019m talking to Tammy Simon, right? Of, and my old self would\u2019ve been, oh my God, I\u2019m gonna, I, she won\u2019t let, this won\u2019t go that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, I\u2019ll forget what I\u2019m supposed to say. Uh, I, I would have all that kind of stuff come up. It still comes up here and there, but the strength is I have, um. It\u2019s like a reservoir or res, an ease or resilience because it\u2019s been built up. Like those thoughts don\u2019t take me down that groove in the same way and also have a different focus.<\/span><\/p>\n

Like, I wanna be helpful, I wanna be loving, I wanna be present. I want it not to be about me. Right. I wanna be really present. Right. So because I\u2019ve trained enough with that, it\u2019s easier. I don\u2019t have to fight the fear as much. Right. It\u2019s just, it\u2019s more just, again, it\u2019s like a muscle that you\u2019ve used now.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so, um. the other thing of stronger is that I really have changed my identity. I really have, like, I I, I did not start off thinking, oh, I wanna be the most loving person in the room. That was not my<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> My goal was I wanna get what I want. know, like I wanna get everything I want of, I just happened to realize that, oh, being the most loving person helps me get what I want in things, ways I don\u2019t even realize.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, so the strength is, um, I think the other strength, and I\u2019m so glad you asked this \u2019cause it\u2019s good for me to remember it. I be, for me personally, I believe in a God and a love and a universe like I\u2019ve never believed before. I, I have such a gratitude for this force and this love that is with me constantly.<\/span><\/p>\n

Even when I forget, even when I\u2019m blocked to it, um, I see so much love and I\u2019m so, so grateful, and I did not know that there could be this love. And so of what motivated me to write this book actually was I heard a voice that said, I need you to be the beloved. I need you to<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Well, it\u2019s,<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> need you<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> it\u2019s so interesting Tama, that that\u2019s where. You\u2019re going here. \u2019cause this was my final question for you, and it\u2019s from your chapter called Siding with Your Undiluted Light. So first of all, that was my favorite chapter title, siding with Your Undiluted Light. And I was like, just write that down and put it someplace, Danny.<\/span><\/p>\n

And here\u2019s the quote. Neuroscientists have shown that standing in a certain pose, hands on your hips and your arms bent, gives us more confidence in stamina, I think, of being the beloved as an introversion of this pose. And I thought, well, this will be the last question I ask Tamma, what does it mean to be in the pose for you of being the beloved?<\/span><\/p>\n

Tama Kieves:<\/b> It means, it means for me, like walking into every situation, being that beloved and my, my beloved comes from the universe. It comes from knowing. I am cared about, I am safe, I am loved. And that because I\u2019m in that pose of knowing that or or beginning to trust that I want to give it. I want you to know that you are the beloved. I want every person to know that there is an infinite intelligence in you and it may speak to you differently and it may, it may not have the same words or the same mechanisms or the same ways, but it is learning a language. To that, to that in intelligence, that\u2019s yours and yours alone. That we\u2019re, that I\u2019m walking this planet with this infinite being, you know, and that finally just taking in what if I really am loved?<\/span><\/p>\n

And what if I don\u2019t have to keep preventing danger and, and, you know, or attacking myself or needing things to be this way, in that way. What if instead, because I\u2019m in that pose of I am the beloved. I\u2019m looking for it, I\u2019m seeing it, I\u2019m noticing it, I\u2019m noticing every aspect of it. So if I\u2019m in an interview or something, it\u2019s like, I\u2019ll notice what\u2019s going right.<\/span><\/p>\n

Or even if it wasn\u2019t going right, it\u2019s like, how privileged is it to be able to do this at all? Right. Or, or, I just gave one of the biggest speaking engagements I gave, uh, in my life, um, last week and I was. Really scared of, but um, but part of me just kept saying like, Tam, the fact that you get on that stage, no matter what happens in this lifetime, the fact that you get up there if you mumble, I don\u2019t care if you mumble the fact that you are walking onto that stage.<\/span><\/p>\n

That is the achievement to me. If you don\u2019t walk on that stage and you don\u2019t beat yourself up, that\u2019s the achievement to me. Like that\u2019s, for me, the beloved is like, I wanna be on my side. I wanna be on my side in everything, and giving myself that patience and that nurturing. Again, because I wanna use the gifts I have, because I think I am one infinite channel of these possibilities that can affect people, who can affect people, who can affect people.<\/span><\/p>\n

Um, so I think we\u2019re all the beloved and it\u2019s just, it\u2019s, it\u2019s waiting for us to choose it. It\u2019s waiting for us to proclaim it. And initially it may feel fake, you know, like I, I, I, you know, I mentioned those, that best tool thing, um, earlier about a tool that I use. When I first started doing that, it felt fake to me.<\/span><\/p>\n

It felt like, oh, you are so pathetic now that you\u2019re gonna have to write to loving voices in your head. Oh my god, you know of. But I decided what I, I\u2019m a very practical girl when it comes down to it. I have that logic in me and I thought, when I don\u2019t believe this, I curl up on the couch and I\u2019m freaked out and nothing is working right.<\/span><\/p>\n

When I allow myself to believe this, even if it\u2019s not true. Even if it wasn\u2019t true, I\u2019m a better person because of it. I get out there and do things I wouldn\u2019t have done because of it. So I know, but by their free shall know them. And I also just know, I don\u2019t even care if I come to the other side and realize, wow, that was just not even true at all.<\/span><\/p>\n

I don\u2019t care. I had a better life because of it. So I\u2019m gonna choose in my lifetime to be the beloved and to allow good things to come because I also believe in frequency that the more loving I am to myself and the more I show up and the more I can be there, um, I think it changes the frequency. I think that there\u2019s a different energy.<\/span><\/p>\n

You attract better people. You\u2019re in the zone, you\u2019re more creative, you\u2019re more alive, you\u2019re laughing more. Um, and for me, that\u2019s, that\u2019s part of what I want in this life and I want other people to have that. I want, I wanna read other people\u2019s books. I wanna see how they love their parents. I wanna see what house they built or what book, what book they read.<\/span><\/p>\n

I mean, just like, I think we all have so much love and potential in us and it\u2019s just choosing it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Tam\u2019s, author of the beautiful book, learning to Trust Yourself, Tam to Tam. You\u2019ve lifted all of us up. Thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you Tam. Thanks friends.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-24533","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nTama Kieves Being Available To Infinite Intelligence...<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with Tama Kieves Being Available To Infinite Intelligence. 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