{"id":24886,"date":"2026-01-19T19:55:37","date_gmt":"2026-01-20T02:55:37","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=24886"},"modified":"2026-01-19T19:55:37","modified_gmt":"2026-01-20T02:55:37","slug":"sister-joan-chittister-presence-and-perpetual-goodness","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/sister-joan-chittister-presence-and-perpetual-goodness\/","title":{"rendered":"Sister Joan Chittister: Presence and Perpetual Goodness"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon:<\/b> The Sounds True Podcast Network.<\/span><\/p>\n

You are listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. Today is a rebroadcast of one of my favorite episodes. I hope you enjoy. Today is a broadcast of a very special conversation that I had at Mount St. Benedict’s Monastery in Erie, Pennsylvania with a woman who is one of the most influential religious and social leaders of our time, a woman I greatly admire, Sister Joan Chittister.<\/span><\/p>\n

This was recorded just as Sister Joan was approaching her 83rd birthday. Sister Joan Chittister is an American theologian, Benedictine nun, and the author of more than 50 books for over 40 years, she has passionately advocated on behalf of peace, human rights, women’s issues, and church renewal. She has a way of being supremely down to earth and no nonsense.<\/span><\/p>\n

I’ve read her weekly email newsletter for more than a decade now, and I always find it’s a refreshing take on the grit and the true humility. That the spiritual journey asks of each of us. What you’re about to hear is an excerpt from a full-length seven-hour conversation series that Sister Joan and I recorded together at Mount St. Benedict’s. It’s a series called <\/span>Catching Fire, Being Transformed, Becoming, Transforming<\/span><\/i>… with the idea that listeners will indeed catch fire and be transformed and become transforming through the listening experience. You can learn more about Catching Fire at soundstrue.com. I hope you enjoy this special broadcast with Sister Joan Chittister.<\/span><\/p>\n

As we begin this session, I just wanna say out loud that I take this time with you. Seriously. It’s precious.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> It’s great<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> to me. It’s so precious.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> It’s precious for me too, Tami. I don’t get the chance to sit and talk about these ideas much with anybody. I think about them 25 hour, uh, hours a day. But the conversation is itself a holy one.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> And in that spirit, I want to ask you some of the questions inside of me that are both holy and burning, and we’re gonna go right for it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> I’d love to know, within the Christian tradition and the prophetic Christian tradition, is there anything that you would consider analogous to enlightenment?<\/span><\/p>\n

Enlightenment from the Eastern tradition, some line that we cross and after we’ve crossed that line, we’re different. Forever different, a different way of being in the world.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> The Christian tradition doesn’t identify that as part of a natural spiritual process, but the dimension of it that does exist comes out of an older language that moves, uh, through contemplation to unity.<\/span><\/p>\n

So we’re not using that language much anymore, but it’s uh, it’s foundational to the whole Christian thought of what it means to kind of my word melt into God, to become so God conscious in your life that, that you walk in the womb of God at all times. And we called that the unitive level of prayer. I think the better and.<\/span><\/p>\n

Closer analogy is simply contemplation. Now we as benedictans see, uh, a choral prayer. It keeps the community attuned, literally attuned to the will of God and the presence of God. But it’s interesting, this sixth-century document says, let prayer be short.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Now, when I was a kid in this community, in the pre Vatican two days, we were literally praying seven hours a day, seven hours.<\/span><\/p>\n

I didn’t see that as short when I was 16, 17, 18 years old,<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> not at all.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Then with the liturgical renewal, a lot of the accretions were stripped away and we found ourselves, frankly, I happen to think in a more concentrated prayer than ever. You had lords in the morning. You have, uh, what we call known. We break the day around noon.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then you had vespers at night, and we have two periods of lexio, of, of holy reading in the day, half an hour each. So our day is punctuated by consciousness, so we leave choral prayer. To, uh, in, in his concerns, to stretch that and then to renew it and renew it and renew it. And then having renewed choral prayer regularly to allow ourselves to move into Lexio and out of Lexio.<\/span><\/p>\n

Eventually, as enlightenment is eventual in a person’s development, there’s this movement into contemplation, which is prayer without words, prayer that isn’t based on any kind of liturgical process or, or even regular practice. It is a, a, uh, the point at which we slip into wordless prayer and constant.<\/span><\/p>\n

Awareness and then out of that into unitive development, spiritual development, that would, the Sufi would say, I am God. That notion of having come to be able, as I say in so many books, to see the world as God sees the world to see life through the mind of God, the eyes of God. So is it what the easterner calls enlightenment, that is in a, in a Christian vocabulary conversion?<\/span><\/p>\n

In the Benedictine it is. Remember we talked about the three vows and that conversion to the monastic way of life? Mm-hmm. Well, the monastic way of life is constant consciousness of the God who is with us and why we’re here and what we’re meant to be and do. Does that make any sense?<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> It does. I think the question I have is there could be these dedicated periods of contemplation like you described, and then this fusion in all of your life.<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s what I’m interested in, is that transition point in life and I’m, I’m speaking to you Sister Joan, as someone who tomorrow turns 83 years of age. So I’m really speaking to you as an elder. After you contemplate so much in this unit of state, what is that spillover effect like?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> I, I think the difficulty with the question is that the Christian, and I don’t, frankly, I don’t think the easterner ether marks the day and the moment unless there is a genuine.<\/span><\/p>\n

Experiential situation that happens, you’ll hear people say, and my brother dropped dead before me, and all of a sudden I, I saw life.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Differently. That kind of thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> There’s a, a, a line in the life of Benedict where it says, and he saw all of life in that moment and he saw the entire globe and all of life.<\/span><\/p>\n

And now obviously he had a spiritual experience and obviously that led to his enlightenment. But for us, meditation, meditation is the doorway to contemplation. That’s why I talked about sacred reading. You are wrestling with ideas. And then the ideas begin to take over in your life. I say often prophetic spirituality is a slow seed growing.<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s a process that leads us beyond, uh, where we were monastic. Life itself is a stepping over point. It’s a life unlike the life around us, that that very notion that you are building consciousness in to to people as they come through the monastery door. And then eventually it’s that dripping of water on a rock.<\/span><\/p>\n

And you get to the point where you look back and know that you have become different, but you don’t know in most cases. Exactly when or where.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Or how.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> But it’s, it, it does change you. The lifestyle is the first step into this profound spiritual change. Then the immersion in consciousness is the second level, I suppose I should say.<\/span><\/p>\n

The, the commitment to consciousness, which is meditation. The immersion in consciousness, which is contemplation. Then eventually just kind of slides and slips in a silky way into another level. And, you know, it has happened because maybe part of it is the natural process of a cultivated age. Uh, when you’ve been doing that all your life, it’s amazing how, what, what, you know, consciously in your life would’ve been a big thing 30 years ago.<\/span><\/p>\n

You now say what?<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> That’s nothing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> That’s nothing. It just all falls away. So it’s, I I would argue that it probably is, uh, part age, but it’s part cultivated age. I don’t know that you can’t just hope to get to be 65, 70, 75, 80 and it’s going to happen. It, it can only happen if it has been cultivated forever.<\/span><\/p>\n

It is a flower come to bloom. You can see it in its stages. You know, when the, you know, when they turn the ground, you know, when they drop the seed, you know, when the first green grass sprout, uh, begins to struggle up through the, the earth and the compost, and then you see the bud, and then one day you get up and the flower is in bloom.<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s a lifelong process.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm. Now, several times you’ve spoken about seeing the world, the way God sees the world, loving the world, the way God loves the world. And upon reflection, I realize that when you say it, I tune into what you’re saying. I kind of get it. I get it when you’re talking. But then I think about it later, and when I think about it later, it occurs to me, I’m just kind of going along with Sister Jones’ story.<\/span><\/p>\n

She’s telling a story. She’s telling a story about this all loving God that is looking at every single person and event and situation and piece of earth. And I could see it that way, but there’s another thought process inside that says, what if it’s all a lot more neutral? Than that. That’s just a perspective.<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s a perspective that Sister Joan is offering here. This, this is the, the kind of rational process in me and I suddenly start doubting. It’s just that I’ve like bought in to a, a good story and you’re a great storyteller and I wonder what you’d have to say about, that’s kind of like the conversation you would have with an atheist, if you will.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Yeah. As you speak, you know, I, I, I see this Rolodex go round in my head and I’m deciding which of seven ways I’m going. And I, I’ll, I’ll trip over my own feet trying to, to talk about all seven ways. The most rational thing you can do, Tami, is irrational. And by that I mean you begin in rationality and it, you know, every great religion has an, uh, a story of origin.<\/span><\/p>\n

And the story of origin tells you who you are, where you came from, where you’re going, what you’re supposed to do to get there, right? The Christian story of origin is the story of God’s love and goodness. You just start there. Every single part of the creation story in Christian Christianity and Judaism and Islam the same is, and God saw that it was good.<\/span><\/p>\n

And God said, that’s good. And God saw the sun in the moon and saw the separation and said how good that is. I have every reason to believe when I see that tree bud and flower, that that came from goodness. And I know that the food that comes from the ground, that’s goodness. And I know the child that comes from the womb.<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s goodness. Everywhere. Creation is assigned to me of the goodness of God. That’s rational. And then I transcend the rational, and I know that the God who created all of this, goodness everywhere, I see it, every color and every form, and every part of creation, earth, sea, and sky. That that goodness is, is uh, the, the foundation, the ground of life.<\/span><\/p>\n

And that is the mind of God. Goodness is the mind of God, and fullness of development is the mind of God. So when I see whole populations that are not permitted or act, their, their fullness of development is suppressed, thy know that is not the mind of God. The mind of God is, and that’s good. And that part of creation is good.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> So I would never attempt to argue this because in my heart I am with you, period.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> However, I have discussions with people who are more scientifically. Minded than I am, and they’ll say to me, Tami, I see it more neutrally.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Yes, yes, yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> That is a human interpretation and it works well for you and your sweetheart.<\/span><\/p>\n

Good for you.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> However, I see the world as this unfolding neutral experience where there’s always been aggression and animals eating other animals, and we are in fact an evolved animal, and they give that argument, and I am, I don’t know what to say.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Well, there’s a big difference between goodness and holiness.<\/span><\/p>\n

The seed is good. I have every possibility and potential and experience of corrupting my own seed as I grew. Everything doesn’t grow to the fullness of its goodness, I’m sure of that, but I’m equally sure that the potential is in us to grow as sure there, there are failures in evolution. I’m quite scientific in my approach.<\/span><\/p>\n

Uh, I do not separate science and religion as some people do. I see the unfolding of a, a thanks to science of a new awareness of wonder in the universe that the seed that is creation also is free to destroy itself. Of course it is. And, and this the whole notion of, of whether or not we bring ourselves to the height of our own possibility, that’s left to us.<\/span><\/p>\n

God is not a puppeteer, God is not a vetting machine. You don’t put so many Hail Marys in and get money out. You know, I, I have actually heard people say, I, I went to mass every day of my life and, and what’d I get for it? A divorce? He walked out on me. As if, as if life is a quid pro quo. It is not for each of us, we, each of us individually alone and separately work out the creation story in ourselves.<\/span><\/p>\n

It says singular as it is global, and each of us, we have an awareness of who we are. Now are, are some of those seeds corrupt at the beginning? I’m sure every, every radish that I plant does not grow. I know that that is part of life. That is the process. I like the Eastern, uh, approach to karma. You, you get out what you put in and, and you are the stuff of your own creation.<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s what it comes down to at the end. Mm-hmm. I am responsible. And when it, when it comes to consciousness, not even enlightenment, consciousness of this is the, the process of life, that origin story, that, that has this magnificent, um, uh, awareness of how we shape ourselves and what happens to us as a result of that shaping.<\/span><\/p>\n

I honor that. Every bit of that is right. I do not say when I’m saying everything God did is good. I’m not saying everything God did is perfect. Everything God did is potentially good. That’s you and me too. And the difference is that now we are responsible for bringing ourselves to that height. And I like to move away from the word good at that moment and say to that height of our own happiness, Julian, nor it’s the 13th century mystic, she’s wonderfully, terribly misquoted.<\/span><\/p>\n

There’s a, there’s a, a song that has come out of her chewings, the 13, uh, images or visions of life as she saw them. And we love to sing and all shall be well, and all shall be well in all manner of things shall be well. But Julian of Norwich was saying in that statement that that’s a semicolon, not a period.<\/span><\/p>\n

The other part of that sentence, Julian says, uh, God does not punish sin. God does not punish sin. Sin punishes sin. That’s a direct quote. All shall be well and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well. When I tell that to, um seekers, to audiences, to in panels, it’s amazing. They say, you, you can’t be right.<\/span><\/p>\n

I said, well, Julie in the mystic has, has we better, we better listen to her carefully. What do you mean God doesn’t punish sin? Sin punishes sin. Well, I’ll tell you if, if, uh, if your basic sin is greed, your punishment is, you will never satisfy it. You will never have enough. You will always be looking for more and feeling desolate or abandoned, or overlooked or dejected.<\/span><\/p>\n

If lust is your basic sin, you will never know love. You will, you will always just be satiated with the physical and you’ll never really get to find out what it is to be really loved and cared for and have, have a companion of the soul. You can go through all of what, what Christianity calls the capital, sins, the great sins, and they all end in desolation.<\/span><\/p>\n

If anger is your basic sin, you will never be rested. You’ll be mad about something in someone somewhere. God doesn’t punish sin. Sin punishes sin. When you take those 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 approaches to your question.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> They all come out the same. There is goodness, goodness is meant to come to fullness. We sometimes destroy our own fullness and sometimes great good comes out of the destruction.<\/span><\/p>\n

You, you watch people let go to an AA meeting and listen to them.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Talk about who they were once and what happened and how their, their lives have evolved into a beauty they never thought possible. It’s, it’s all, it’s everywhere. It’s, it’s God giving life the right to be life and to shape itself. It’s karma, it’s goodness, it’s creation.<\/span><\/p>\n

It just doesn’t come out evil ever under any science won’t tell you that they think it’s evil. They are neutral and they should be neutral. And I think in our own way, we must be Dre. We have to realize that this, this potentiality, does not always bring itself, at least as far as we can see to fullness.<\/span><\/p>\n

So of course, this is not a fairytale. This is the story of life and this bringing people up, holding people up, staying with people, helping one another. We’re all trying to come to fullness. There’s lots of room for the lack of fullness in, in that rendering of the story. But however, whatever story of origin you’re using at the end of that story, the fullness is there.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> What about the scientific story of origin?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Well, the, it’s not finished yet, is it? We don’t know.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> We don’t know.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> We cannot say. But we see it moving to, into more and more enlightenment, more and more awareness. I mean, I, I’m, if you want, uh, contemplative material, let alone meditative material, find a good scientist and sit with them.<\/span><\/p>\n

You, I mean, you cannot deny the wonder of it all.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm. Now, I want to ask you the question that is most alive in my heart, which is a little bit of a strange one, which is how does someone. We won’t have to name that person, open their heart more and more and more. And I ask this because in my own experience, I found that I understand so many things.<\/span><\/p>\n

I’ve interviewed so many people at this point in my life, but it’s my heart that is still in this flowering process. And there are still places where I can tell it’s it’s closed off and it’s kind of numb.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> There are some things we should be closed to.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Interesting answer<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> that is part of our openness.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> You’re gonna have to explain that to me.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> There are some things we are not meant to embrace. I am not meant to take it for granted, as we did for hundreds of years, that some people are born to be slaves. As our understanding, scientific and otherwise of the full of of life as it develops developed in us.<\/span><\/p>\n

It took another couple hundred years to open our hearts to that notion. In other words, we wanted slaves who was gonna pick the cotton as, as they say. Um, what’s her name was singing all those years. Uh, why are Darkies born? Jane? What, uh, she, she’s the one who does the Star Spangled Bannon thing. Uh, a marvelous, marvelous voice.<\/span><\/p>\n

But now they have discovered that a lot of her music was highly prejudiced as, as probably most people’s music would’ve been. Nobody heard the prejudice. Then we developed into the consciousness of it. So when you say, do you wanna open your heart to slavery? No. No. Do you wanna open your heart to, to wife beating?<\/span><\/p>\n

No. Do you wanna open your heart to trafficking? No. So the fact that your heart does not ascent to evil just because it’s out there, you have closed one side of your heart, and when you do that, the rest of your heart opens. So this struggle will be in us every single day about what I should be accepting and what I may not accept, and furthermore, what I must work against as a social acceptance.<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s, I, I don’t, I don’t believe there is any such thing that is total openness, that is totally holy.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm. Very interesting answer. Now, do you find your heart and your mind are always in sync, or are there times when they’re not in sync and when they aren’t in sync, how do you approach that?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Well, the purpose of study is to bring your heart and your mind in sync.<\/span><\/p>\n

Uh, what you don’t understand, you pursue. And when you understand something, really understand it, and you have come to peace with that understanding and think you have explored it with a certain degree of, of depth and respect, then it’s like a dual focus camera. The one thing comes in line with the other, but if they weren’t out of sync, how much would we be prompted to pursue?<\/span><\/p>\n

It is the very division in us when we attend to our divisions, we are attending to our unity. And eventually, if we face it, my problem is always with people who say, I dunno. I never think of that. I don’t think it’s a problem. I mean, so you own people just as long as it’s okay if it works. I mean, why wouldn’t you do it?<\/span><\/p>\n

And I say to myself that, that is a person without a division and the lack of that division means this person cannot grow. It’s not even a question for them.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> In a way you’re describing, you’re validating the power of being aware of the divisions we have.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Yes, absolutely.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> As a, as an entry point.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Sure. That’s exactly, that’s grace.<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s a call when I feel out of sync with myself. I have a, a great growth question. Uh, that’s, that’s simmering within me and I have to attend to it. You know, this, the, the woman’s question is a, a continuing, continuing, uh, demonstration of, of exactly what you’ve brought up. What is a woman worth? What is woman for?<\/span><\/p>\n

It’s the great question of the 21st century, because for so long we have, we have allowed this lack of wholeness not to bother us at all. We simply used it to make half of the human race comfortable and took the discomfort of the other half as, as, uh, their God-given duty. And I know that there is only one question that will answer that, and when I got to it.<\/span><\/p>\n

I quit being divided. And the question that I brought myself to, I really struggled with this, believe it or not. I mean, I’m Catholic. What is a woman for to breed Is that it is that the whole deal, uh, to care for the other half of the human race. That’s the whole deal. I came to one question. It solved everything for me.<\/span><\/p>\n

I asked myself one morning, well, just tell me John is a woman, human or not, and what do humans do and what makes a person human and is a woman’s humanity equal to it? I stopped worrying about the question are, aren’t you, aren’t you really upsetting people? I mean, you’re, you’re Joan, you’ll destroy families like this.<\/span><\/p>\n

No, I won’t. I will strengthen love and I will strengthen, uh, the family unit when everybody in the family unit is enabled to see in themselves the flowering of everything they’re capable of.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> So I take it as a self-evident fact that all people have equal contribution potentially within them to the human race, regardless of if they’re transgendered, if they’re women, if they’re men, if it does not matter.<\/span><\/p>\n

So I take that as it’s right there. It’s clear to me. Within that view, what do you see as the priorities of transformation within our institutions and within the world? To bring that into actual, to use your language holiness into fact, into reality, not just a philosophical view.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Well, one of the things that fascinated me, this will not sound like an answer, so gimme a minute.<\/span><\/p>\n

Um, one of the things that fascinated me as I grew and as I studied a lot of history because I was a history teacher, and when I began to realize that great inventions were happening around the entire globe in the same period of time. Uh, the, the Americans thought they invented the steam engine. The Brits said, no, we had that 50 years before you ever heard of it.<\/span><\/p>\n

That kind of thing. When, when I began to understand that there was in, in the system, in the ether, in, in the impulses, in the atoms, this continuing percolation toward development, and, and now I, I move from, from that image to the morning paper and discover that in Sri Lanka after this terrible massacre, all manner of insights are being defined in that culture.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, we will not have this. We will have this, this is criminal. We will find it, and we will, we will wipe this out of our culture. I see the, the movement for transformation as part of the human condition that somehow or other in the electric energy around us, the great notions exist and eventually you can, I, my image of the, uh, of the, of the globe is a hot bulb.<\/span><\/p>\n

That is you begin to see water boiling in various parts of it. 25 years ago, Tami, all I heard was any word that anybody said about the condition of women in the United States was you Americans. I mean, of course, you’re so out of touch anyway. Why wouldn’t we think. That, that you would move into this. And within 10 years of, of those accusations coming straight at me personally, I wind up in a, in a room in Istanbul at the top of, of a, of a building where called, uh, something like this, the Purple House or something.<\/span><\/p>\n

And here were a hundred young women on the floor where these things didn’t happen. And, and they were creating their own woman’s movement. They didn’t know anything about us or ours. They just knew inside themselves that what they saw, uh, the, the way they saw their lives being laid out was wrong. I think that the growth, the creation is in constant moral evolution as much as it is in constant ecological.<\/span><\/p>\n

Movement and so we’re all growing and changing and becoming, and that becoming is the power of the globe.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Okay, so when you step back and you see this moral evolution, just like ecological evolution, I have questions about the evolution of spirituality and spiritual practice, and some of this comes from my own experience.<\/span><\/p>\n

When I started Sounds True, 34 years ago, I wanted to really bring forward the teachings of the great mystics of all the world religions. Now, often when I talk to people, believe it or not, they’re like, what world religions? They’re not, believe it or not, they’ve moved on into a type of secular mindfulness where I’ve heard other people describe we’re moving into a new period beyond.<\/span><\/p>\n

Religious forms, Tami, something that you could call organic divinity. It’s in us. It’s in us just as biological human beings. We, we don’t need religions in the way that we used to. We’re gonna grow beyond them. I’m, I’m curious what you think about that, especially as you see this evolutionary flowering.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Well, we often divide what is indivisible and the function of religion or whether or not religion will last or not last after 2000 or 5,000 years may be a false question. I say maybe because I’m struggling with this one myself. Christianity is a catechetical religion. That’s my word. Nobody ever told me that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Meaning it is, it is theologically based. That is not true of Hinduism, for instance. That that is, that that’s a, a, a personal experience of a, a kind of a, a, a catalyst of consciousness and they’re not sitting around studying, uh, is God three or one, or they see manifestations of God and, and uh, and they live in those manifestations, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

Uh, the Buddhist not so much. The Buddhist is looking for, uh, great internal Yes. Peace and consciousness. And, and it’s a, it’s a, a beau, you can you, when you’re with a Buddhist, you, you have a feeling of, of, uh, of groundedness. They just are not all that hectic about anything. And it’s beautiful. So when we talk about.<\/span><\/p>\n

Uh, will religion exist? Is uh, is religion on its way out? Well, it all depends on what, what you’re talking about. I if, if you’re using the word religion as a synonym for God consciousness, one way or another, I think, uh, religion as an institution, as structure is meant to help people find the enlightenment, the consciousness.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sometimes it succeeds mightily and sometimes it is arrested in its own development. It can get so caught up in itself that really spiritual people begin to say, there is nothing there for me. And they move on looking for a, a broader consciousness of, of, uh, of the spiritual life. I don’t see this as a question that will ever be quote, resolved.<\/span><\/p>\n

I believe that it is a question that every individual lives through. I mean, there are certain in, in my awareness of people everywhere, and I don’t care what their background is. Hindu, Buddhist, Jewish, Muslim, Christian, every one of them are at some their own place in, in the process, and everybody goes through.<\/span><\/p>\n

I, I always say, I think infant baptism is a lovely thing. It makes adults feel very good. They take the baby to church and they, uh, and they welcome them into the Christian community and they tell the parents, you’re responsible for this child. All of that’s beautiful. Having said that, I personally believe that every single human being goes back to the baptismal font themselves at some point in their life.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then they say to those questions, I do believe, I do not believe, or I don’t know. Each of us develop the spiritual as slowly and carefully as we develop the mathematical, uh, the historical, the relational. It’s in us. It’s a magnet. We’ll get to it somehow. Religion will probably help. Over 50% of the people, maybe 25% of the people.<\/span><\/p>\n

I don’t know if religion is your thing, if, if being brought into the community and developing your own spiritual life as that community in its traditions have always developed it, and that’s good for you, that’s wonderful. But I’m meeting all sorts of people who are saying exactly what your question said.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan. I was raised Catholic. I was raised Methodist, I was raised Baptist. Uh, but it’s just not there for me anymore. Is there something wrong with me? And I smile inside, inside and say to myself, only that you’re human, honey. That is your disease.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Now, when I asked you this question, there was an aspect of it that you said, you know, I struggle.<\/span><\/p>\n

With some aspect of what, what aspect of this is, is, is concerning. What<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> I just said is, is the institution itself absolutely essential to a human being for their entire life? Not what I’m seeing. That’s not what I’m seeing. Mm-hmm. Or I’m seeing it in, in gradations. This and this. I mean, all manner of people are going to churches and then turning right around and, and studying yoga.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> It doesn’t bother them at all. In fact, it’s a great help. So yes, we are seeing a lot of blurring of lines, but that neither affirms nor negates religious institutions.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> I think part of the challenge for people of our time is saying no to the traditional institutions and then saying yes to their own search, their own personal discovery.<\/span><\/p>\n

Combining a little bit of that, a little bit of this, and being a little lost in the wilderness, if truth be told, there’s not that anchor and yet they still feel it’s not true to say yes to any traditional form.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> I think you’re right. I think your question itself, uh, really explains a lot of what’s going on.<\/span><\/p>\n

The, the, uh, you, you simply get to the point, uh, at least this is what I, I think I’m seeing in, in people in general where. Especially if, if as children they were raised in a given tradition, they will carry that. Uh, it, there’s a saying once a Catholic, always a Catholic, I believe it. It’s something in the DNA, it has, it has fixed the categories in your head.<\/span><\/p>\n

So those are the categories you think you have to be able to answer. And when you get to something that you can’t or, or don’t, well, then you say, well, ha, I’ve lost my faith. But as a matter of fact, faith, uh, this awareness of life and its purpose and, and holiness is in us. It’s, it’s there, it, there’s a magnet and that magnet toward the spiritual.<\/span><\/p>\n

Will be addressed or will be abandoned by some people. And then, you know, there was a time in Catholic tradition when the notion was that once you went to confession, you should never sin again. You got to go to confession once in your life. So people stopped going to confession until they were dying.<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s why the whole notion of the death bed confession was so important. They didn’t wanna die suddenly because they would die without having their sins forgiven by an authority somewhere. Now that’s an instance of, of the change within the religious tradition itself. But if I, if I was raised in that and then I see myself facing the end.<\/span><\/p>\n

A lot of people said, get a priest. So you had extreme unction, this oil at the last moment. Was that necessary in the global nature of life? Of course not. My God. Everybody would be in somebody’s hell because they missed the boat. But it was in the person. This need for this spiritual reconciliation.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Was in the person.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> So what we were trained in or nothing, if we were trained in nothing for those, trained in nothing, there’s a lot of common seeking, or sometimes they just say, I don’t know. I’ve never been part of that. And that’s true, but they have some consciousness of life as bigger than themselves.<\/span><\/p>\n

And they’re looking and they’re looking now like they have never looked. And in our awareness of history up to this time,<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> I am digging in here because I feel that that population is only gonna keep growing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Hmm. It is growing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> And from your perspective, I’m wondering what kind of framework it makes sense to offer people that from a universal position, people can go, okay, sister Joan Chittister at 83 years old said, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.<\/span><\/p>\n

Make sure you’ve got that covered.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Well, sister Joan Jeter wouldn’t say that, trust me on this one. Uh, she doesn’t have five laws. You better be sure you were keeping ex there. There’s one law and that is perpetual goodness. I, I am in sync with the needs of creation. I am in sync with the needs of human community, and I see that as a universal human purpose.<\/span><\/p>\n

And somehow or other, you are not completely fully human. When you drop those, those things, that notion of doing good, of keeping good, uh, however you get that and however you confirm that is what I see as the essence of human goodness,<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> perpetual goodness. I love that. It’s a very beautiful phrase. Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> I wanna ask you about something. I was reading in the book, essential Writings that has been compiled from your books, and there’s an introduction to essential writings from Mary Lou Kaki, and she’s writing about you and she’s writing about how you came to be, what she calls in the book, a passionate contemplative.<\/span><\/p>\n

And here’s the paragraph, she said, Joan had a direct experience of God at a very early age, but only revealed it some 50 years later during a public lecture. In that speech, she recounted praying one night as a teenager in a dark eerie cathedral with only the sanctuary lamp for light. Suddenly she had an experience of intense light.<\/span><\/p>\n

She joked that it might have been a janitor working late or a bad light switch, but for her, it became an insight into God that remained. I knew then that the light was God and that God was light. And what I wanted to ask you about is what you experience as the relationship between the nature of God and light.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> I can only repeat or, or reveal my feeling, uh, ev that every word in that, in that paragraph was true. Every word, there was nothing exaggerated and nothing not. So there’s just one sentence left out that I never said in public till this moment, after that moment to this moment with you in this monastery, I had a sensation of the presence of God, and I never, ever lost it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Never. In the darkest times, in the brightest times there is in me, somehow around me, uh, a sense of warmth and security. All shall be well and all shall be well, and all manner of things shall be well. Even at my darkest moment, that light became warmth for me. That light is still here and has been with me through the hardest parts of my life.<\/span><\/p>\n

I was, I was about 12 when that happened. I might’ve been 13. I was there for a Girl Scout meeting and the girl scouts met in the basement of the cathedral and I got there early and there were, there were back stairs up into the body and I wanted to make a visit. It was a big thing for Catholic kids, Catholics passing a church.<\/span><\/p>\n

We’d go in, kneel in a pew just to make a visit. And when I got up there, there was nothing wrong but the sanctuary lamp over on the right hand side of the church. And I knelt down at the altar rail. It was cold, it was dark. I didn’t have, I mean, again, as a Catholic kid, you’d say an our father or a hail Mary.<\/span><\/p>\n

I have no idea what I said. If anything, all I remember is looking, just being there and kind of, kind of seeing the church in total darkness like I never had before. And then a flash and the lights went on and I couldn’t imagine. And I looked around and there was nobody in that church. And I, I, I stared at this light everywhere and thought that somebody was gonna tell me to leave.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then little by little the light came down, just came down and the darkness was there again. Meaning there were no lights in the church except the sanctuary light. But I, I got up and left that church and walked down those steps to that, to that Girl Scout meeting, knowing I was bringing the light with me.<\/span><\/p>\n

I knew it. I knew the light was in me. And so I never told anybody, anybody, nobody. No priest, no sister. I never said a word to anybody until they had the conference in the Oregon, I think called God at 2000, and they asked us if, if to agree to make a presentation on who God was for you. How you know it.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I thought, well, what am I going to do? I have no answer. I have no theology that, that satisfied my answer.<\/span><\/p>\n

And by that time, I had come to the point in my own life when I really believe that people have more mystical experiences than they realize.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> And I believe everybody does. And they’ll tell you little snippets of stories, but, but they, they don’t know what it was. But it happened. And so I thought to myself, well then maybe, maybe this light story wouldn’t be so unusual, I could just get away with it.<\/span><\/p>\n

But having to put it into words is when I most consciously, the sentence came to me. And that light has never left. That light is still there. That light got me through everything. I felt that somehow or other I was being watched or held or, or led or, I don’t know what the word is, but it was there. So when you say, you know, what did that mean to you?<\/span><\/p>\n

And when you, when you try to talk about it as a, a demonstration of, uh, of God in your life? I don’t have words. I have an experience.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm. I, I wanna understand the experience even deeper when you say you felt a presence. Sensation of a presence that’s always been with you since then. What does it feel like?<\/span><\/p>\n

You said warmth.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Warmth,<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> but does it feel, do you feel it in a part of your body? Do you<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> What part, what does that feel like? No,<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> it’s just wrapped<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> uhhuh.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> It’s just wrapped. That’s all. And on the coldest day, it’s there. Even though I’m cold, I’m physically cold, but I know this warmth, it’s not, it’s not definable.<\/span><\/p>\n

I can’t define it anyway. Mm-hmm. I just know it’s there. Bad answer. I understand<\/span><\/p>\n

too.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> No, no. Uh, do you feel this came to you as a gift, as a destiny, and this was something that just happened?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> You didn’t do<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> anything?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> No. I, I, no, I thought it, uh, I, even at the age of 12, I said, there was something in me that said, ah, finally, now I know.<\/span><\/p>\n

That’s that, that I finally got it. You know, like you said in an earlier question, I, you know, when you say it, I get it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> And then I begin to doubt it later.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> No, it was a got it moment before we said. Got it. It was, ah, I, and I knew that I had gone up there and had taken something out, and I used to worry that it would go away.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> I, I wondered how long it would stay, and I’m 83, so it, it doesn’t look like it’s going any place. Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> In your reading, your reading of great wisdom figures, is there any corollary where you can see in the lives of other people things that happened that, oh, it’s kind of like that. Like I, when I read that story, it was like, huh, okay, that’s similar.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Well, all of them, like Hildegard Hildegard of being again, is a Theresa Aler, Catherine of Sienna. God was a presence to them of some, somehow they don’t, Theresa talks about it more than anybody else. Actually. I think she’s pressed to try to explain the difference in, in her view of religion at that time and the institutional view of religion.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so they doubted her and they mistrusted her and they, you know, tried to shut this off because it was so atypical of, of what certainly a woman was supposed to feel. So I think it’s in every one I read, but it’s, it’s a consciousness. When I, when I read it in them, I don’t, I don’t relate it to. A personal experience, I just simply say it does happen.<\/span><\/p>\n

Consciousness happens. Yeah, it happens.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> In this same introductory essay, Mary Lou writes that a second incident affected your spirituality in a deep way, and it happened in your early twenties when as a young Benedictine sister you were given the book Abandonment to Divine Providence, and that through this book, you discovered the sacrament of the present moment.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I wanted to hear more about the sa sacrament. That was you, the present<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> moment in terms of, of, uh, some sort of understanding. Of the divine as kind of electrical energy that was present at all times that you should be looking for. Uh, this is CASA’s book and it meant everything to me. It, it became next to the scriptures.<\/span><\/p>\n

I still have it. It’s on my desk at home, little red leather book. I still pick it up every once in a while. It’s heavily underlined by this youngster who is trying to figure out, uh, in her own life the kinds of questions you’ve been a asking for several days now. And so I recognize the questions because I’ve been there in my own life trying to, trying to separate, you know, the grain from the chaff kind of thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

How much of this is, is, can you put any stock in? Uh, how much of it is helpful and sade’s notion of God in the present moment? Opened everything to me. I, I could stop looking for great signs or great challenges or, or, uh, great insights or great truths or great teachings. It was simply to be aware and has riveted me in.<\/span><\/p>\n

People will tell you that I am where I am. I am not distracted Right now, this conversation is the only thing on my mind, and yet when I walk out that door, there are 15 things I should be attending to.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Mm-hmm.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> And I’m sure that this somehow or other really leavened my soul. It enabled me to be present to the moment and to see every moment as, as a, a potentially holy moment, and certainly potentially a learning moment.<\/span><\/p>\n

It really captured me. She’s right about that too.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> You know, so many people now in today’s world. Want to discover how to be mindful, how to be mindful, how to be in the present moment. I mean, there’s thousands and thousands of books on it, and yet you had this insight into this electrical energy that left you changed.<\/span><\/p>\n

So I wanna hear more about that and how somebody hearing this right now can catch some of that. How do we do that? I think people wanna be in the present moment. Yes. But they’re in five places at once. They’re not embodying what you’re describing naturally.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Well, I took that at the age of 20 and turned it into a practice.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Tell<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> me what you did. There was a book, uh, there was a prayer at the end of, um, this, what we called a daily missile or something, and it, there was a collection of prayers and one of them was a prayer for a happy death. And I was looking for something that. Would reflect to me outta my own, uh, larger tradition, what this priest was trying to tell people.<\/span><\/p>\n

And I found this prayer, said, oh Lord Jesus Christ, at this moment, I do, except from thy hands with a quiet and trusting heart whatsoever, deaths death, thou sh choose to send me with all its pains and griefs. And I changed it. And you heard me change it just by accident, because I say it so often, oh Lord Jesus Christ, at this moment, uh, I do, except for my hands.<\/span><\/p>\n

Whatever deaths thou sh choose to send me with all their pains and griefs, and I use that at any moment that will be difficult or trying, I, I say it every morning, walking in this door. If I’m, uh, fail to be clear, if I fail to understand your questions, if I do not work hard at making sense out of these ideas for people, then I will accept it.<\/span><\/p>\n

I tried and I failed, uh, and I’ll, I will trust that something good will come out anyway. That present moment has never, that’s also, it’s just in my DNA.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Okay. There’s a couple, couple things here. First of all, that is a very, very, very powerful prayer,<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> isn’t it?<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Uh, Mary Lou in her editor’s introduction said that you would say that prayer before you’d go up on stage.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> Walking across the stage, if you see my lips moving, that’s what I’m doing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> And I thought to myself, you know, a lot of people might say something like, I pray that I’ll say something helpful to other people and I won’t sound too, too stupid or something like that. Like some, yeah, something. But you’re actually praying that you will accept with a quiet and trusting heart whatsoever.<\/span><\/p>\n

Deaths, thou shalt choose to send me with all their pains and grief, their pains and griefs. It’s that last part I think that really struck me. Mm-hmm. And how does that relate to being fully in the present moment to you?<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> I just reminding God that I’m there and that I’m ready and that whatever is supposed to come out of this, uh, however bad it might seem to me, however disappointed I might be in myself, uh, however badly I shall function for someone else’s sake.<\/span><\/p>\n

I mean to do, well, I’m, I mean to be there, but I accept that you, you’re right back, believe it or not, to scarred by struggle. That there is something in this moment that is very important and it will happen, and I accept it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Okay. So most people who I think are, are trying to appreciate the present moment are probably doing something like consciously breathing, breathing in and out.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now I’m present. They’re using their senses so that when they eat lunch, they’re chewing slowly and tasting their food. They’re not saying anything like. Whatever deaths will be sent to me, I will accept their pain and grief. It’s, it’s completely different. It’s completely different. So it’s, um, it’s astonishing to me.<\/span><\/p>\n

I’m trying to fully appreciate it. And what, what do you think about this? I’m gonna breathe consciously. I’m going to know.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> I never do any of that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Feel the air.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> No. I, I know people who do it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Yeah.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> And I think it’s wonderful.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> Sure.<\/span><\/p>\n

Sister Joan Chittister:<\/b> And I’ve, you know, sometimes walking alone by myself, I say to myself, now, Joan, be very conscious about, you know, but no, this sacred present moment is I, I’ll, I’ll use the word that is common, but it was never, my word is my practice.<\/span><\/p>\n

It is consciousness. Now at, at the weight of this moment, this moment I’m in is terribly important. I accept its importance, uh, in any way it happens and I will be present to this moment. God is in this moment for me, and I don’t know how. I don’t know how, but I know that. And, and all I’m saying is, uh, this is, this is as close as I come to, uh, surrendering to the universe, surrendering to all the parts of my life, uh, surrendering to hope, to responsibility.<\/span><\/p>\n

I’m responsible for this. It’s a very conscious life. I live, and you can call it mindfulness, and I do mindfulness very poorly. I, I really do. I mean, I’m, I’m, I’m physically incapable, you know, like I love the walking meditation. I’ve done it in groups. But for somewhere, see that, that’s a, a a a a spirituality that just has never captured me.<\/span><\/p>\n

Just being where I am, surrounded by this warmth and open to this moment. This is my life. This is my spirituality. And it is very unadorned.<\/span><\/p>\n

Tami Simon:<\/b> You’ve been listening to a special broadcast of Insights at the Edge with Sister Joan Chittister. The rest of our conversation, the full seven hours can be found in an audio series called <\/span>Catching Fire<\/span><\/i>: <\/span>Being Transformed, Becoming Transforming<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

You can find that at soundstrue.com. Thank you for listening to Insights at the Edge. You can read a full transcript of today’s interview at soundstrue.com\/podcast, and if you’re interested, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app and also if you feel inspired, head to iTunes and leave Insights at the Edge.<\/span><\/p>\n

A review. I love getting your feedback, being in connection with you, and learning how we can continue to evolve and improve our program working together. I believe we can create a kinder and wiser world. Sounds true.com, waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n

The Sounds True Podcast Network.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-24886","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nSister Joan Chittister: Presence and Perpetual Goodness | Sounds True<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Sister Joan Chittister: Presence and Perpetual Goodness | Sounds True\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Tami Simon: The Sounds True Podcast Network. You are listening to Insights at the Edge. Today is a rebroadcast of one of my favorite episodes. I hope you enjoy. 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