{"id":9005,"date":"2021-04-20T16:34:30","date_gmt":"2021-04-20T16:34:30","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=9005"},"modified":"2021-04-20T16:34:30","modified_gmt":"2021-04-20T16:34:30","slug":"terri-cole-becoming-a-boundary-boss","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/terri-cole-becoming-a-boundary-boss\/","title":{"rendered":"Terri Cole: Becoming a Boundary Boss"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon: <\/b>Welcome to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>, produced by Sounds True. My name is Tami Simon. I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True, and I\u2019d love to take a moment to introduce you to the new Sounds True Foundation. The Sounds True Foundation is dedicated to creating a wiser and kinder world by making transformational education widely available. We want everyone to have access to transformational tools, such as mindfulness, emotional awareness, and self-compassion. Regardless of financial, social, or physical challenges, the Sounds True Foundation is a non-profit dedicated to providing these transformational tools to communities in need, including at-risk youth, prisoners, veterans, and those in developing countries. If you\u2019d like to learn more or feel inspired to become a supporter, please visit SoundsTrueFoundation.org.<\/span><\/p>\n

You\u2019re listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. Today my guest is Terri Cole. Terri is a licensed psychotherapist and global leading expert in personal empowerment. For two decades, Terri has worked with some of the world\u2019s most well-known personalities, from international pop stars to Fortune 500 CEOs. She has a gift for making complex psychological concepts accessible and then actionable. With Sounds True, Terri Cole is the author of a new book, a comprehensive, beautifully created book. It\u2019s called <\/span>Boundary Boss: The Essential Guide to Talk True, Be Seen, and (Finally) Live Free<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

It might sound like having healthy boundaries is a good psychological skill to have, but I have to say, listening to Terri on becoming a boundary boss helped me appreciate how absolutely critical this skill is and how, in some ways, I think it might very well be the apex of how we as humans can learn to put truth and truth-telling at the very center of our lives, which is something I value so much. Here\u2019s my conversation with Terri Cole, talking true on being a boundary boss:\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Terri, as someone who\u2019s been a psychotherapist and empowerment expert for many years, how did it become apparent to you that the topic of health boundaries\u2014being a boundary boss, as you put it\u2014was going to be the topic that you would focus your big book in the world on? How did that become clear to you, \u201cYes, that\u2019s the topic\u201d?<\/span><\/p>\n

Terri Cole: <\/b>I think part of it is that you most teach what you most need to learn, so it was a combination of my personal experience of having a lot of painful experiences that were directly connected to not even knowing what boundaries were, being a people pleaser, having the disease to please, a lot of outside validation. Then, when I became a psychotherapist, which was sort of later, it was like a second career, I just started seeing all of these presenting problems.<\/span><\/p>\n

It may have been someone not getting paid what they were worth, having conflict in their love relationship, or not being able to assert themselves with their family of origin, but all of those things I could connect the dots backwards to this lack of knowledge around the right to have personal boundaries, the ability to speak those boundaries, to establish those boundaries, to enforce those boundaries. I was like, \u201cWow. This is an epidemic. It\u2019s not just me, my friends, and people I\u2019ve seen.\u201d Once I was a therapist for, I\u2019d say, at least the first 10 years, I was like, \u201cThis is a whole thing,\u201d and I kept creating little handouts for my clients like, \u201cWell, this will help, and maybe these are some things that you could say that might be assertive, might be truthful, and whatever.\u201d That started just taking shape after many years.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> In the book <\/span>Boundary Boss<\/span><\/i>, you talk about your own \u201cboundary bootcamp\u201d that happened in your early 30s when your father died, and also when you received a cancer diagnosis. What was that boundary bootcamp? What happened?<\/span><\/p>\n

It became apparent to me when major things happened in life, catastrophes and things that shake up the normal way we do business, right? There was an opportunity, but it was obvious where I was having difficulty asserting myself. With being a cancer virgin, not really asserting myself in a medical way, not being knowledgeable. I think back, and I kind of can\u2019t believe it was me, but it was. You know, thinking the doctors know. I did get a second opinion, but what ended up\u2014my experience was it was very difficult for me to assert myself with the first surgeon, and I ended up having to have the same surgery again.<\/span><\/p>\n

I do see it as directly related to me not asserting myself, not getting my questions answered, feeling rushed to make a decision. That was really painful, obviously, and a long, drawn out process of not knowing. Even in my early 30s, not knowing my boundary bill of rights, as I call it. What are my rights, even if the person is a surgeon, a doctor, and very well-known at what they do? I still have the right to have my questions answered, to have what I think considered. But I didn\u2019t do that, so that was one that was very painful, because my gut instinct was telling me to assert myself. I didn\u2019t, and I ended up having to have the same surgery twice, so that was one thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then, with my father\u2019s death as well, I had actually about six months before my father passed, I went through an experience where I had a choice to either assert myself or not. It was boundary bootcamp in that I did assert myself with the help of my therapist, and really had a profound shift in my relationship with my father at that time. He was someone who I was afraid of. So were all my sisters. So was my mother. And I was out of the house for many years. I was in my early 30s, and I went into my therapist office. I said, \u201cHey, I\u2019ve decided I\u2019m not going to invite my father to my grad school graduation,\u201d so I was becoming a psychotherapist.<\/span><\/p>\n

She said, \u201cOK. Can I ask you why?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I said, \u201cWell, he won\u2019t come. That\u2019s why.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

She\u2019s like, \u201cOK, but let\u2019s ask a different question. Do you want to invite him?\u201d\u2014which was a different question than saying, \u201cDid I want him there?\u201d\u2014but did I want to invite him?<\/span><\/p>\n

I was like, \u201cOf course. He\u2019s my father.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

She was like, \u201cOK. So, I want you to understand that if you want to invite him, you should invite him whether you think he will come or not. You\u2019re blurring the boundaries between your side of the street and his side of the street. Your healing will come from asserting your true desire, your preference. It\u2019s not about what your father does,\u201d which actually really blew my mind. So, what ended up happening is she gave this to me as an assignment. I was seeing him. I would go to Florida once a year to see him, and she said, \u201cOK. I want you to invite your father to your graduation.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, I\u2019m coachable if nothing else, and I was like, \u201cI have to do this.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

So, it\u2019s the last day. I still have not asked him. I\u2019m packing. He\u2019s like, \u201cOK. We need to leave for the airport.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I was like, \u201cOK. Well, I have between now and the airport, because I cannot go back to New York and tell Ruth I didn\u2019t do it.\u201d We\u2019re driving, and I said, \u201cHey, dad?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

He was like, \u201cYes?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I was like, \u201cHey, I\u2019ve got an extra ticket to the graduation in May. Visit\u2014if you want it,\u201d type of a thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

He was like, \u201cTerri, I really can\u2019t,\u201d because he really, really hated New York. He worked there for years. Too stressful.<\/span><\/p>\n

I was like, \u201cIt\u2019s OK,\u201d I said, \u201cNo problem.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then, he said something really odd. He said, \u201cOh. Here comes the guilt.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I was like, \u201cAre you kidding? I haven\u2019t guilted you a day of my life? I don\u2019t even know what that means,\u201d but it opened up this dialogue where I was able to say, \u201cDad, it\u2019s not about guilt. It\u2019s about that you are my only father, and you matter. Our connection matters. I can absolutely, as a grown adult, accept it if it\u2019s too much, but I wanted you to know that nobody can replace you.\u201d My mother would be there, my sisters. I was like, \u201cBut you\u2019re the only you.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

He was like, \u201cOK.\u201d So, not much else on that topic, but what shifted between us, when we hugged goodbye, it was like he hugged longer than he normally would. He just kind of held on, and then for those six months I started getting a card with his little scrawly handwriting that just said, \u201cLove, Dad,\u201d which was very out of character. He would normally send me a note about my retirement account, and [anything] that he thought I should be doing. He was very dutiful in that type of a way, so it was very interesting to just get a note being like, \u201cThinking of you,\u201d even though it would never say anything more in the inside in his handwriting other than, \u201cLove, Dad.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

We opened up this dialogue. Started having phone calls on Sundays, and I truly believe that all of this happened from having the courage to simply ask for what I wanted with the full-blown boundary boss-ability to accept someone else\u2019s no. My father actually died very suddenly six months after that trip. He just died of a massive heart attack. He was quite young.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I was so grateful that I had that courage and that moment. But that really shifted something for me, because I learned that it really wasn\u2019t about controlling other people, manipulating other people, getting them to do what we want, and if we can\u2019t, then we shouldn\u2019t. It was about being truthful and asserting my authentic self, even though I was afraid.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> The title of your book, Terri, is <\/span>Boundary Boss.<\/span><\/i> It\u2019s such a great title. As I was preparing for this podcast, I just was walking around and being, \u201c<\/span>Boundary Boss. Boundary Boss. Boundary Boss.<\/span><\/i>\u201d Yes, OK. What is a boundary boss? Describe it. Put it in action for us. Show us this person who\u2019s acting, speaking, conducting themselves, and feels inside like a boundary boss.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TC: <\/b>What it means to be a boundary boss is that you know what your preferences, your desires, your limits, and your deal breakers are; you know who you are. But in your relationships, you know what those things are, and you have the ability to clearly communicate them so that you\u2019re true to yourself as a boundary boss. The misconception is that to be a boundary boss you\u2019ve got to be hard, you\u2019ve got to be fighting. You\u2019re confronting people. You\u2019re always saying no\u2014like, isn\u2019t that a boundary boss? No, because when you really learn this skill, which is what it is, you can always do it if you so choose with kindness. You can always do it with ease, with grace, and with love when appropriate.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s knowing who you are and having the courage to allow the people in your life to also know who you are to take up space. A boundary boss is someone who loves themselves, who knows that prioritizing your preferences, your desires, knowing your deal breakers, that is not being selfish, who knows that self-care\u2014legitimate self-care\u2014is not selfish.<\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s a whole mental health aspect to this, but it\u2019s really about the way we interact in our relationships and in the world, that comes from a place of who you are, knowing that you are ever evolving. It\u2019s accepting where you are right now too with whatever you do and don\u2019t know about boundaries. You are in the exact right place in the exact right moment in time to hear about this book, to pick up this book, to learn this process. It is never too late.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> No. You say that being a boundary boss is a skill, and I noticed when you said that it\u2019s a skill, I thought, \u201cOh. That\u2019s good. That means it\u2019s learnable. It\u2019s something I can develop.\u201d When you were describing the qualities of feeling and acting like a boundary boss, it felt a little bit more like some awesome, not necessarily attainable goal, but if it\u2019s a skill, \u201cOh, OK.\u201d So, help me understand step-by-step\u2014what are the components of this skill?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> Part of it, the book itself, and what I\u2019ve been teaching for the past two-and-a-half decades is based on what I\u2019ve created, which are the five pillars of self-mastering. So, visualize it like the first pillar is self-awareness. This is knowing, just being aware. \u201cHow am I interacting in the world? What am I doing?\u201d Because you can\u2019t change anything you are unaware of, and then we move into self-knowledge, and the steps I give you\u2014in the book itself, I give you tons of strategies, tips, and small exercises. In each chapter, you\u2019ll see that I bring everything. I teach you something, and then there\u2019s something called back to you. The reader now takes this thing we just learned and goes, \u201cOK.\u201d Now I\u2019m like, \u201cThis is how we do it in your life. Answer these questions. Get your answers,\u201d because, of course, I am nobody\u2019s guru, obviously, and I don\u2019t have your answers or anyone\u2019s answers, but I definitely know where your answers are. I\u2019m a damn good GPS to get you to where that is.<\/span><\/p>\n

First, we have self-awareness. Then, we move into self-knowledge, so we do a lot of taking inventories. We do a lot of sitting down, because self-knowledge, when you talk about becoming an expert on anything, if you wanted to be an expert in finance, you would learn from someone. This process of becoming a boundary boss is you becoming an expert on you, your life experiences, and all of the things that have come together to create where you are right now and the way that you relate to and express your boundaries, like your boundary style. Self-knowledge, which is, we go into the basement, as I call it, which is the unconscious of your mind. But don\u2019t worry; I\u2019ve got a little miner\u2019s lamp, and I\u2019m holding your hand. You\u2019re never alone throughout this entire process, and everything is very small, doable steps. We need information, though, right? We need to know what happened.<\/span><\/p>\n

I teach you how to connect what happened in the past to what might be happening right now in your life that you might not want to be happening right now in your life. We move into awareness, knowledge, and then we have the third pillar, which is acceptance, self-acceptance, not just accepting yourself. It\u2019s really accepting your life experiences and the things you got in childhood and the things you didn\u2019t get in childhood. Again, we can\u2019t come from a place of denial or repression of this information and fix what we want to fix, to change and transform the things we want to change.<\/span><\/p>\n

The fourth pillar, which I find is probably the most challenging, is self-compassion, because I find that the women in my crew in particular are incredibly compassionate. A lot of empaths, highly sensitive people, very compassionate of others. Somehow when it comes to themselves, they\u2019re like, \u201cI should know this. I shouldn\u2019t be so weak. I don\u2019t want to blame my parents. It was so long ago. I should be over it. It happened four decades ago,\u201d right?<\/span><\/p>\n

There are all of these ways to not treat ourselves compassionately, so everything that we do throughout this process of becoming a boundary is we are meeting ourselves with compassion, with understanding, with acceptance, because that\u2019s really the only way that we can heal, transform, or change what needs to be changed. We can\u2019t be mean enough to ourselves to get these skills. It\u2019s through self-love that they will come.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then, the fifth pillar is self-mastery, which encompasses self-love and self-celebration. Self-mastery means any situation that you find yourself in, in your life, you\u2019re like, \u201cI\u2019m OK. I may not know exactly what to do, but I know how to buy time. I know how to create space. I know how to say no. I know how to not give an instant or auto yes.\u201d All of these things, from communication, to your childhood experiences, to asserting boundaries.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then we actually, within the book, we need to learn the actual language of boundaries, so that is exactly like learning any other language. You would never think that you should just be fluent in another language and like, \u201cWhat\u2019s wrong with you that you don\u2019t know it?\u201d if nobody taught it to you. That\u2019s the way that we approach the actual language, and we approach different people differently, because folks in our life\u2014and you, Tami, probably can think, \u201cHuh.\u201d Have you ever known someone who you might consider a boundary bully, let\u2019s say? Right? Who hasn\u2019t?<\/span><\/p>\n

A lot of times, we think that people are pushy or a boundary bully. But the way that I make the distinction within my practice and within the book is we have people who are boundary first timers, so even if they are more assertive than you are, if you\u2019ve never spoken truthfully about your feelings, your thoughts, if you\u2019ve never made a request (a simple boundary request, we call it in the book) then we can\u2019t put them in the category of being a boundary bully, because we really don\u2019t know how they\u2019re going to respond when you make a simple boundary request.<\/span><\/p>\n

What I have found by teaching this\u2014because, before I created the book, I actually beta tested it for five years in a course to see what sticks, what works, what\u2019s the most efficient way to do something, what\u2019s the fastest way from A to B, what can go because it\u2019s not really producing what I wanted, because I wanted to try it in real life. That was the process of beta testing with the course to move it into really just keeping the hoping and knowing that the cream would rise to the top if I had more experiences; that is what would end up in the book, because you can\u2019t all go in the book, because there\u2019s not a book that is long enough. The mindset is that this process is like learning a language.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I want to get much more into the language of boundaries, but before we do, you said something really important in terms of the whole process of self-mastery and the importance of self-knowledge. Having the self-knowledge of what happened in our past and understanding how that\u2019s formed us today, you write about it as discovering your boundary blueprint. And I\u2019m wondering if you can give some examples of maybe some classic boundary blueprints that happened for people early in their life that then led to their current behavior around boundaries, and starting to help people make those connections?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> Yes, I sure can. Think about your folks. Part of what we do in the boundary blueprint is you think about your family of origin. I just call them your parental impactors, because it could be any organization of humans\u2014but the adults in your life, the way that they interacted. If you had, let\u2019s say, a mother, a maternal impactor, who was a pleaser, and that is the way they interacted in their relationship, that\u2019s not someone who\u2019s teaching you, right? You\u2019re learning that, like, \u201cOh. This is what love is. When I\u2019m in a love relationship, I say yes even when I want to say no. I do things that I don\u2019t want to do simply because it makes the other person happy,\u201d which is fine to do if there\u2019s mutuality there, but a lot of times there\u2019s not.<\/span><\/p>\n

What does that create? We end up having these repeating boundary realities, and then we find ourselves in similar situations in our adult relationships. What does that lead to? Let\u2019s say\u2014that example of a mom who was a pushover, who said, \u201cYes, yes, yes,\u201d but really wanted to say, \u201cNo,\u201d who over-gave, over-felt, over-functioned, let\u2019s say, ends up feeling a particular way in life, which is underappreciated, angry, bitter. Without some intervention, we will most likely repeat the model to behavior in our childhood, even when we say we won\u2019t, right? Have you ever been like, \u201cI will never have that bickering marriage that my parents have\u201d? If you don\u2019t do something to have some kind of an intervention to not do that, you will find yourself doing that\u2014and that\u2019s not according to me; that\u2019s according to Freud; but it\u2019s true.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Let\u2019s say someone\u2019s trying to sniff out, right now, in their own experience, \u201cHow does my current approach to boundaries connect to my early parental impactors?\u201d I like that phrase that you used. Where would you point them to start looking? Where can they start sniffing for clues?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> The first thing is, and we do this right within the book. You\u2019re actually filling out your own very unique blueprint by answering these questions. Just start thinking about, \u201cHow were the boundaries within your family?\u201d\u2014meaning, how either enmeshed or separate was your family system? Was it an open system, where lots of people could come in and out, or was it more of a closed system, where\u2014you know, some families, nobody could come in and out. You know, the friend who couldn\u2019t have friends over, and then you have the friend who\u2014you were constantly sleeping over that friend\u2019s house? We look and go, \u201cOh. Those are all representative of a particular kind of way of relating to boundaries.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

If you\u2019re in a family system that was very enmeshed, and everyone knew what was going on in everyone else\u2019s life, and everyone talked about everyone, were you allowed to have privacy? Were you not? Could you have a private phone call? Or, like in my husband\u2019s life, [\u2026] the one [phone] in the house was in the kitchen, and the cord was two inches long, so there was no private conversation ever. Those are all ways that you start to look at, \u201cHuh. This is how my boundary blueprint came about.\u201d How was it in your circle, your culture, your country? Let\u2019s look at, let\u2019s say sexual boundaries. If you came from a very repressed culture, there would be an expectation to not be sexual until a certain point in your life. In some cultures, even now, being sexual before marriage is considered a terrible thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

Those are also boundaries, so if you look at your family of origin, were you allowed to have a different way of thinking about things, or was it more group think, that we all have to be on the same page? Were you allowed to differentiate in any other way? Were people allowed to take your things? Did you have your own room? And I go through all of these things in the book, but there\u2019s all different kinds of boundaries. So, right now, when we\u2019re talking about family stuff, we talk about all of them, but really emotional boundaries, let\u2019s just say. How do we relate to the other people? How did you problem solve? How did you talk to each other? Those are emotional boundaries. Were people screaming at each other? That\u2019s a boundary violation. Was there no conversation when someone was mad? Did someone withdraw an anger? That\u2019s a dysfunctional boundary response.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK. Now, I told you how happy I was strutting around the house, just saying the words, \u201cboundary boss,\u201d but the question that was also happening inside is I was trying to think through, how good am I actually with boundaries really? I want to be a boundary boss, but I don\u2019t think I am, truth be told. So, if somebody is asking that question of themselves, and they\u2019re trying to look at their life right now and they\u2019re trying to assess, \u201cHuh. How good am I actually?\u201d what guidelines would you give them for coming up with that truthful assessment?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> How often do you say yes when you really want to say no? Where in your life and in your relationships are you over-giving, over-doing, twisting yourself up into a pretzel, or inconveniencing yourself for others who might not even be high priority people in your life? That\u2019s a beginning. You can also always know if a need is not getting met, which means there\u2019s some kind of boundary dysfunction happening, by checking in with how you feel. Think about a friendship. Think about a relationship or your love relationship. Are you resentful? Do you feel underappreciated? Do you feel like that person should be doing more for you or there\u2019s not enough mutuality? I always look for the anger. If you\u2019re kind of pissed, we can then take the anger, how you feel, and connect those dots backwards to find some kind of injury, some interaction, or someplace where you are not talking true, not sharing the truth about what you want with that person.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s really about your level of satisfaction, I think. And how known do you feel? Do the people in your life\u2014do you tell the truth about how you feel? I don\u2019t mean all the people, because not all the people should be getting your truth-truth. Our heart truth is reserved for the people in our VIP section, as I call it, our front row, our important people.<\/span><\/p>\n

Those are a few ways of looking at how often do you want to say something. Even if you are in a conversation with other people at work, let\u2019s say, but you don\u2019t speak up, or you might have disordered boundaries in a different way, and you might speak up so much that you don\u2019t let anyone else talk. That\u2019s a different kind of boundary dysfunction, but your level of satisfaction is really the best litmus test to see where you\u2019re at, because if you\u2019re angry, if you\u2019re frustrated often, then I promise you that you have disordered boundaries.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> You talk about three different kinds of boundaries, that it\u2019s possible that our boundaries are porous, rigid, or healthy. As we\u2019re looking inward during this conversation, how would we know if our boundaries are on the porous or rigid side?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> Porous means very malleable, right? They\u2019re sort of too loose, let\u2019s say. Those of you who have taken the boundary quiz, there\u2019s like seven different things that you could sort of be. That\u2019s more of the chameleon, the pushover, the peacekeeper. If you abandon yourself to avoid conflict, if you want to avoid conflict\u2014even if it\u2019s not your conflict and you might be diffusing conflict for other people\u2014that says that your boundaries are more porous. This leans itself towards more co-dependency type of relationships. If you\u2019re more rigid, you might be more like, \u201cMy way or the highway.\u201d You could be a great leader, but you also might be a little insensitive to others. You could be kind of bossy. You could be not as sensitive to other people\u2019s stuff. That would be considered more rigid.<\/span><\/p>\n

Rigid boundaries can also express themselves more like the loner, where deep, messy, emotional stuff is not your thing, so to not deal with that you may remove yourself. You may just be like, \u201cOK.\u201d If it gets complicated, you may disappear. You might be the person who\u2019s kind of ghosting other people emotionally. If we\u2019re doing it super simply, we would say that rigid boundaries are too firm, so if we were going to boil it down to really simple (and as human beings we\u2019re a little more complicated than this) we would say that rigid boundaries are too firm. Porous boundaries are too loose. What is it that we\u2019re seeking? We would like to be somewhere in the middle of those things and have healthy boundaries, meaning that they\u2019re appropriately flexible. We can take context into account if something is going on.<\/span><\/p>\n

If your friend asks you to go to a concert, but you hate outside concerts and you don\u2019t like that music, you can say no. If your friend says, \u201cBut actually I would love it if you came, because I really like this person, and I really need a wing-woman to come with me,\u201d that\u2019s context, and you may say, \u201cOh. Well, that\u2019s a different story.\u201d It\u2019s not about the concert. It\u2019s about you, and you can make that different choice. I think that the healthy boundaries mean we trust our own opinion, we know what we think, we\u2019re not afraid to say what that is. Again, imagine this all being done with ease and grace, because if you\u2019re really masterful at something, there\u2019s almost never a need to do it with harshness. There\u2019s almost never a need to be unkind. There really isn\u2019t. When you master this, you can do it all with kindness, but it\u2019s the truth about how you feel.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> And for those who are interested, you can go to boundaryquiz.com and take the quiz that Terri\u2019s referring to. Now, you mentioned, \u201cYes, when you\u2019re really masterful, you can do this with ease and grace.\u201d I had a moment of like, \u201cYes, really? OK, so why is this so hard, Terri?\u201d Why is this so hard for so many of us?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> There are so many reasons, but let\u2019s just start with the most prevalent, which is that most of us were raised and praised to be self-abandoning co-dependents in life. This is what a good girl did, was. \u201cSmile. Turn that frown around. Where\u2019s my happy girl?\u201d Nobody was like, \u201cI care about how you feel,\u201d most of the time. If we\u2019re looking at traditional gender roles, we were raised to be the bridgers, the assuagers, the soothers of life, and it was like the highest compliment. Being nice was the highest virtue of all virtues, but it became corrupted, because what we learned is that \u201cIt\u2019s better to be nice than to be honest.\u201d Then, of course, truthfully, is that really being nice? Obviously not, if you\u2019re saying yes when you want to say no, but we didn\u2019t learn that. Many of us had been just trained to automatically self-abandon.<\/span><\/p>\n

Automatically, we are accommodating. There\u2019s this auto-accommodation of other people in situations. All of those things set you up to be a boundary disaster, not a boundary master, because it\u2019s basically saying it doesn\u2019t matter how you feel and what you think. It matters what other people think of you. It matters that people think you\u2019re nice. How many times do clients say to me, \u201cI just don\u2019t want them to think blah, blah, blah\u201d? Like, listen, dude, we can only worry about what you think; what they think is their side of the street. But we were raised to worry about what everybody thinks and make sure everyone is happy. It is a whole process that requires a certain amount of intention and commitment to \u201cI want this to be different.\u201d We can\u2019t be sleeping in life. We can\u2019t be on automatic pilot and be like, \u201cBut I\u2019m going to suddenly have this amazing skillset,\u201d because automatic pilot is the old thing. It\u2019s hard, because nobody taught us.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> You mentioned that one of the things we can do if we want to see where we might have\u2014I think one of your phrases is \u201cdisordered boundaries\u201d\u2014but, I might just say, boundaries that aren\u2019t so great. Something like that as, \u201cLook at our relationships and see where we\u2019re not satisfied,\u201d and that\u2019s a good feedback for us. In the book, you have this great quote. You say, \u201cBe the change you want to see in relationships,\u201d and you\u2019re referring to the \u201cBe the change\u201d quote that so many people use from Mahatma Gandhi to talk about being the change we want in the world, and then be the change you want to see in relationships. That really stuck with me, because as I was serving and thinking of various friendships in my life, and even some family relationships and even aspects of my intimate relationship, truth be told, that aren\u2019t where I necessarily one hundred percent want them to be, then I thought, \u201cOh Tami, be the change you want to see in relationships.\u201d That really inspired me. When it comes to speaking the language of boundaries, I wonder if you could give us some examples of that, of how you\u2019ve helped people be the change they want to be in relationships using this communication skill?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> The first thing you\u2019re going to want to do\u2014everyone wants to in the beginning\u2014when they\u2019re like, \u201cWow. Everything is going to change. I cannot wait to get a bullhorn and tell everybody, \u2018People, we need to talk. Everything is going to be different now. There\u2019s a new boundary sheriff in town.\u2019\u201d Literally. Because it\u2019s so anxiety-provoking to even think about changing our boundary dances that we can\u2019t wait to warn the people. But we won\u2019t warn the people, because the most profound changes\u2014and to be the change you want to see in your relationships\u2014is that that is one small shift at a time within yourself.<\/span><\/p>\n

Every time you want to focus out on what your person should be doing differently, on what this one should be doing differently, and \u201cIf my boss just wasn\u2019t a big jerk, it would all be fine,\u201d we\u2019re going to focus in and really get clear, \u201cWhat is my 50 percent of this interaction? What if I simply asked for what I wanted? What if I didn\u2019t write a whole dissertation around how they should already know it, or I mentioned it once in 1978, and I can\u2019t believe they didn\u2019t remember?\u201d What if we just got healthy enough to say, \u201cHey, I\u2019d like to make a simple request that you not leave your wet towel on the wood floor, as I\u2019ve asked you a bunch of times, but I\u2019m going to ask you again\u201d? That is a simple request. Every request is simple, whether they do it or not. Instead of looking out, part of it is, \u201cWe\u2019re going to look in.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Very good. You have a section towards the back of the back, scripts for assorted boundary challenges, and I thought this was so helpful. We won\u2019t be able, obviously, to give lots of examples, but I wonder if you could give some examples in terms of starting this ease of communicating our simple requests, the language of boundaries. Give us some good examples of this.<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> Sure. Sure. Let\u2019s say you\u2019re having a conversation with someone who is interrupting you. You\u2019re telling a story, but we know who these people are, so these are conversational boundary situations. In the past, let\u2019s say that you let them interrupt you, but you\u2019re hurt. It stings. You feel a little \u201cMm\u201d inside. You\u2019re like, \u201cWow. They\u2019re not even listening to my story.\u201d Instead of doing that, I like the one finger method, because it\u2019s not super aggressive, but we hold up one finger. If you were to say to someone, \u201cOne moment,\u201d you would hold up one finger. Say, \u201cOh, hey, I would really appreciate it if you could let me finish my story before telling yours, but then I\u2019m all ears for yours.\u201d Sometimes I\u2019ll say to someone, \u201cPlease let me finish my thought, because I promise you if I don\u2019t, I will forget it.\u201d I will use humor, but I am pointing out that they have interrupted, so that\u2019s one sort of easy way.<\/span><\/p>\n

Let\u2019s say you have a friend who every time you\u2019re going to get together, they\u2019re like, \u201cHey, can\u2019t wait to see you in Brooklyn in our favorite spot.\u201d Of course, they live in Brooklyn, and you live in Queens. You\u2019re like, \u201cWhy do I always got to get on the train to go to Brooklyn? Why?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Instead of saying that, you could say, \u201cI\u2019d really appreciate it if we could decide together where we\u2019re going to meet, and I would love it if you would come to Queens,\u201d rather than just staying. We fall into a pattern of behavior, even if it\u2019s unsatisfying. Then, even though we love that friend, and we want to see them, why not negotiate for your preference? And literally saying, \u201cI would appreciate it if we could decide together where we\u2019re going to eat\u201d or \u201cLet\u2019s do something new,\u201d or, \u201cI would love it if you would come to Queens,\u201d instead of just letting it go. Depending on the relationship with the interrupter, you can go a little further like, \u201cI thought you should know when you interrupt my story, it makes me feel unimportant, or makes me feel like you\u2019re not listening, and that hurts my feelings.\u201d Now, I would say that to someone I was close to and maybe not someone who wasn\u2019t, because it wouldn\u2019t hurt my feelings if I wasn\u2019t close to them. What other situations do you want to know about?<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> One thing, just as a comment before we go onto other situations, is that when you describe this language, I notice there\u2019s not a lot of charge on what you\u2019re saying. Truth be told, I\u2019m an interrupter, and as you were just holding up your finger, \u201cHold on. Let me just\u2014\u201d I thought, \u201cOh, that\u2019s easy,\u201d and even, \u201cIt hurts my feelings,\u201d that was a little more intense, but I was still OK with it. But I noticed sometimes when people, they\u2019re like, \u201cStop interrupting me. I can\u2019t stand it,\u201d and it\u2019s like the whole thing is blown up. I wonder just how do we make sure we\u2019re in a place where we\u2019re not making the situation worse or creating a whole blow-up as we\u2019re communicating our reasonable boundaries?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> By the time you get to the scripts in this book, you will have gone through this whole process of de-activating these wounds, these experiences, because a lot of times when someone blows up like you just described, I promise you it is not because you interrupted their story about Cancun, because that is a very hot reaction and response. That is, in my estimation, most likely what is called the transference, so you learn to look at yourself and go, \u201cAh. Was I more? Was my response amplified, because this is a familiar experience to me? Because I grew up with a sister,\u201d let\u2019s say, \u201cwho always interrupted me, and then never listened ever, and I was the one who nobody listened to.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Maybe that\u2019s your story, so maybe, that person who yells, \u201cI can\u2019t stand it when you interrupt,\u201d it\u2019s because they haven\u2019t got into the basement of their unconscious mind to mine for this important information. We deactivate so much stuff throughout the book, because we go, \u201cOh. Well, that makes total sense now of why it would make me crazy when people interrupt me, but now is not them, and my coworker is not my sister, so I don\u2019t need to. I will still assert myself, but I don\u2019t need to explode.\u201d Part of this process is we learn to not react, because we create space within us, because what you\u2019re describing is a reaction.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK. How about some simple examples of how to be skillful when I just need to decline and say no? Maybe someone\u2019s inviting me to something socially. Maybe it\u2019s professional. Who knows? But I really just am not interested, flat out, but how do I do it in a graceful way?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> I\u2019m going to give you two ways. We\u2019ll give you a couple for each, like sentence stems for each. If you\u2019re someone who\u2014it\u2019s very difficult for you to say no\u2014then my advice is that you buy time. What we really want for those people who are sort of the \u201cauto yes\u201d people, you\u2019re just going to stop that. So, how to stop the auto yes is, \u201cLet me get back to you on that. I need some time to think about that. I need to check with my roommate, my partner, my lover,\u201d whomever you need to check with. There\u2019s another one that I used to give my clients to say, and it\u2019s funny. Some people would be like, \u201cOh my god. I could never say that.\u201d Other people are like, \u201cI love that so much.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cHey, let me get back to you. I\u2019ve instituted a 24-hour decision making policy, so I\u2019ll be back to you tomorrow.\u201d Like, I\u2019m just giving myself a day to decide. That\u2019s really for the people where you are more prone to the insta-yes. We just want you to stop that, because then the no will be so much easier, and it will be truthful. We\u2019re really valuing the truth. We\u2019re valuing how you feel. If you\u2019re less threatened, and you feel like in the moment you could have these in your hip pocket too, to say, \u201cOh. I\u2019m afraid I can\u2019t,\u201d they ask you to do something, with no explanation. Because here\u2019s another really, really important thing: if saying no is hard, a lot of times it feels like you need to have a good enough reason to say no; it feels like you\u2019ve got to write a dissertation, you\u2019ve got to make a case for your no, here\u2019s the thing: you really don\u2019t. You really don\u2019t. The more that really sinks in, that just not wanting to do something is completely legitimate, even if the other person wants you to. If it\u2019s a friend, and you choose to mindfully do it because you love them, that\u2019s a mindful choice and that\u2019s fine; but get that someone else\u2019s reality, their desire, their preference should absolutely not supersede your own. The point is you have the right to say no. If you mindfully choose to say yes, even if you don\u2019t want to\u2014but it has to be a choice\u2014that\u2019s what this entire process is about.<\/span><\/p>\n

Other easy ways to say no in the moment\u2014because we\u2019re going to give a couple of stem starters\u2014is to tell the truth. If someone asked me to go see loud music anywhere, I literally don\u2019t want to. I\u2019m sensitive. I don\u2019t want to. I just say, \u201cHey, I\u2019m not really into that type of music, that food, or outdoor events, bugs, grass, or sun,\u201d or whatever it is, \u201cBut I hope you have a wonderful time.\u201d You can literally just say, \u201cIt\u2019s not my thing, and you\u2019re still my thing.\u201d \u201cNo to dinner with your horrible in-laws, but I\u2019m still a yes to you, my friend, Betty.\u201d There\u2019s kind of a funny way to do it. You can also just say, \u201cYou know, I\u2019d actually rather not.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Where I give a little more context, so let\u2019s say with someone who is a friend, and they say, \u201cCan you do this?\u201d I say, \u201cYou know, I\u2019d really rather not. I\u2019m actually really tired. I want to get a good night\u2019s sleep tonight.\u201d That, to me\u2014I\u2019m not convincing them: I\u2019m giving context, because I care about them, and those are two different things. You don\u2019t always need to do that. A no to someone who you really don\u2019t care about, you are not required to give any context. We have all of this fear, it seems, at least my clients do, and in my groups, of being perceived as being rude, but there\u2019s a way to also do this where I always say, \u201cThank you for thinking of me, but I\u2019d rather not.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cThank you for thinking of me, but I\u2019m already committed on that date.\u201d I assert a lot of my no\u2019s with folks I care about with saying, \u201cI really appreciate you thinking of me. I appreciate you,\u201d basically, and then, \u201cBut I need to decline\u201d or \u201cI\u2019m already engaged on that day,\u201d or whatever it is. I think that the shift in your mindset that when you get to the point where you go, \u201cI really do have the right to be self-determined and that my no just has to make sense to me.\u201d Someone else being like, \u201cThat doesn\u2019t make sense. I don\u2019t even get it,\u201d I\u2019m always like, \u201cYou know what\u2019s amazing? You don\u2019t have to get it, but you do have to respect it.\u201d You literally do not have to get the other person, but that doesn\u2019t make it not valid<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0I think in this process in close relationships, wanting to give context sometimes is because I want to be more intimately understood by the people that I love, and I don\u2019t feel compelled to do that with people who I work with, my mail carrier, or whomever. That\u2019s not necessary.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> You know, early in our conversation you gave the example, when it comes to boundaries, of someone who feels underpaid, is not getting paid what they feel they deserve. How might that person, whether it\u2019s talking to themselves or talking to other people, their clients, what kind of scripts would you help them with?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> Listen, if you feel like you\u2019re being underpaid, it\u2019s really your boss or the person who has control over paying you that you want to figure out [\u2026], because this isn\u2019t something that you want to be telling anyone else about. You have the conversation, which is\u2014most places have an annual review, but if it\u2019s a small place and they don\u2019t, you can say, \u201cHey, this last year has been a big year, and I would love to sit down when you have a minute and talk about what\u2019s coming up for the next 12 months.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

You can arrange to sort of do your own review by getting on the calendar, and then it isn\u2019t just language here. You actually have to, data-wise, build the case for what you\u2019ve done for the company. How much money did you make them with the things that you did and whatever it is? But I can\u2019t tell you how many of my clients would just go years. The company doesn\u2019t do it, and they just don\u2019t. They just work for the same salary for 10 years, and I\u2019m like, \u201cBut why? You have a right.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWell, they don\u2019t have money.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

\u201cWell, that\u2019s not your side of the street.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Trust me, I used to negotiate contracts for a living. You\u2019d be shocked at how money can be found when you\u2019re at a take-it-or-leave-it, but again that\u2019s a mental and even emotional boundary, disordered boundary, because what they can or can\u2019t afford does not change what you\u2019re worth. So, you can still ask for it. Let them say, \u201cHey, it\u2019s a hard time for the company,\u201d but have the conversation. The first thing is to set up a meeting and sort of move into it from there, but of course that\u2019s the type of thing you have to be prepared with your data to say, \u201cI\u2019ve been at this rate for the last 12 months, and I believe that I am due for an increase.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK. Let\u2019s say someone\u2019s listening to our conversation, and they\u2019re identifying, \u201cYou know, there\u2019s this area where I feel some resentment. I do, in this relationship, in this situation,\u201d and I\u2019m not going to get the bugle horn out, like Terri said\u2014\u201cNow it\u2019s my time!\u201d But I do want to work through this and free myself from it as more of a boundary boss human. What would you suggest? They\u2019ve identified this area of resentment.<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> Real clarity on what it is they\u2019re resentful about is the beginning, so you\u2019re saying they have this. There\u2019s clarity. \u201cYou said you would do this thing.\u201d (I\u2019m going to make up a situation, because it\u2019s easier to do it.) You said you would come with me to this thing, and then you bowed on the last minute. Then, you have to decide. This is clearly sticking in your side, sticking in your craw, so you want to have a conversation, and you can say, \u201cHey, I was thinking about last weekend, and I wanted to bring it to your attention that I was really bummed out that you canceled at the last minute, and now I find myself feeling resentful, so I really want to talk about it.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s one. The intro to this is like, \u201cI want to bring this to your attention, because I don\u2019t want it to be between us. I can tell that I\u2019ve copped negative feelings about it. I should have said something at the time. I didn\u2019t, but I would love to talk about it now. I would like to make a simple request that when you commit to doing something with me, that you keep your word. I mean, unless it\u2019s an extreme situation, which of course I can understand, but I would just like to make the simple request that if you say you\u2019re going to do it, that you do what you say you\u2019re going to do.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I\u2019ll tell you what I\u2019m reflecting on during this conversation, Terri. It feels, to me, like being a boundary boss is sort of the ultimate human developmental achievement when it comes to being connected to other people in a healthy and truthful way. It seems like such a big deal in that sometimes when you think about having healthy boundaries, it\u2019s considered more like some psychological skill over there, and then there\u2019s enlightenment, self-mastery, or these other\u2014they\u2019re the real holy grail, the real achievement. But in hearing you describe the way a real boundary boss operates in the world, I\u2019m thinking like, \u201cOh. That\u2019s actually the apex in some way of human development,\u201d and I\u2019m curious what you think about that.<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> That\u2019s very beautifully said and absolutely true, because if you do not master the way you are in your relationships and in the world in this way, how can we ever have even enlightenment, right? It\u2019s like a notion. I don\u2019t even know what that even means personally, just because I\u2019m so grounded in this, but it\u2019s like this is you becoming masterful at yourself, and then interacting in the world as your highest self in a real way, your most developed self. It also stops you from colluding with the lowest instinct in others. When we have good boundaries and someone is doing something that is really a deal breaker for us, instead of staying in that situation, there\u2019s a consequence. We step back. We know how to interact in difficult relationships and protect ourselves, but keep in mind you\u2019re also protecting the other from their lowest, right? We stopped colluding with their lowest, so there\u2019s really something. Yes, I\u2019m just going to say I fully agree with what you said, Tami.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Are there aspects of being a boundary boss that you still find challenging, and if so, where does it come up for you? In what kinds of situations does it come up for you?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> Yes. Yes, and it\u2019s so funny. I always teach this, like just because you know how to do it, it doesn\u2019t mean you\u2019re ever going to love the things you used to wholeheartedly avoid, right? I still do not love a confrontation. I don\u2019t love disappointing the people that I love. Sometimes I must, because I must choose what I need to do, but I will never love that\u2014but I won\u2019t avoid it. For me, it really is about a hot or angry conversation, because I don\u2019t do a lot of anger in my life or disappointing people. Never going to love it. Even if it\u2019s \u201cmy right\u201d to say no, there will still be times when I feel a little bit of a boundary hangover, because I really would like to make that person happy. Yet, I know if I do it at the expense of my own happiness, ultimately we will all be unhappy.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Again, because I think the actual examples are so helpful, can you give me an example of when you felt, \u201cI\u2019m going to be disappointing somebody here, but I have to do it, and I\u2019m going to do it in a gracious way\u201d?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> Yes. Spending time with my mom is one. While I was writing a book she lived here for four months, because she was going through treatment for cancer while I was writing the book. Then, once she went home, I was going three or four times a week, and then it got crunch time with the book, and I just couldn\u2019t. Now, I have other sisters, but that was difficult, and I had to say, \u201cMom, I have to do this.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

She was like, \u201cBabe, I understand. Of course you do. I understand.\u201d It wasn\u2019t her reaction that was the thing that was going to make me feel guilty. It was my need to be the hero child that made me feel guilty. She was like, \u201cObviously, it\u2019s OK,\u201d but that was still hard for me to choose my book deadline, [to] keep my word to what I said I would do, when my mom was in a physically vulnerable place, even though I knew other people were taking care of her.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> All right. This is your big book, <\/span>Boundary Boss<\/span><\/i>. How does it feel that it\u2019s finally now out in the world?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> So hard to describe. I\u2019ve got lots of mixed emotions, mostly great, relieved, excited, very vulnerable for sure. I had a conversation with Vic, my husband, like months and months ago. Now it\u2019s out, but before we were this close. I was like, \u201cOh my god.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

He was like, \u201cWhat?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I was like, \u201cPeople are going to read this book.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

He was like, \u201cYes babe. Isn\u2019t that the point of writing it?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

But I\u2019m not kidding. I had one moment where I was like, \u201cI wrote about my family. I wrote about my life. I told the truth.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And he was like, \u201cOK, but are you ashamed of any of that?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

The answer was no, but I just felt very, \u201cWow. These are things that usually people who are either just in my practice or whatever would know about,\u201d so that was kind of funny, but the overwhelming reception that I\u2019ve had has been so beautiful and very affirming of what I prayed, what I prayed. Let this reach everyone who needs less suffering, more joy, more skills. Just as many people as possible to be legitimately empowered in their life. That\u2019s what the book is about, and if you do it, that\u2019s what it creates.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> A last question here is just about the sub-title, \u201c<\/span>The Essential Guide to Talk True\u201d<\/span><\/i>\u2014I think we\u2019ve covered that really well. \u201c<\/span>Be Seen\u201d<\/span><\/i>\u2014clearly, we\u2019re seeing you as you describe in the book, and we\u2019re also letting other people see us in our truth. Then, this last part, \u201c<\/span>(Finally) Live Free\u201d<\/span><\/i>\u2014how does becoming good at being a boundary boss let us feel like we can be free?<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> You are free to be your most authentic self if you\u2019re not spending all of your bandwidth pleasing others or hiding parts of yourself that you feel ashamed of\u2014the self, the process, the self-evolution that we go through in the book\u2014where in the end you are madly, deeply in love with yourself, and that is liberating. We\u2019re accepting the light and the shadow. We don\u2019t need to be \u201cgood girls\u201d anymore. We just need to be good, but not good girls. Not good for someone else. Good for ourselves, our partners, our families, our businesses, and that is liberation. When you are less worried about what other people think about you, and more dialed into what you\u2019re passionate about, what is your dharma, what is your purpose in life, you can\u2019t do that when you spend all of this bandwidth worrying about what Bob in accounting is thinking about you.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> We\u2019ve been speaking with Terri Cole. She\u2019s the author of a brilliant and comprehensive book, a book that will take you on a real journey to becoming a boundary boss. <\/span>Boundary Boss: The Essential Guide to Talk True, Be Seen, and (Finally) Live Free<\/span><\/i>. You can learn more at boundarybossbook.com or come visit us at Sounds True. Terri, thank you so much. The work you\u2019re doing is brave, beautiful, practical, and helpful. Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

TC:<\/b> Thank you for having me, Tami.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Thank you for listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. You can read a full transcript of today\u2019s interview at soundstrue.com\/podcast. And, if you\u2019re interested, hit the subscribe button in your podcast app. Also, if you feel inspired, head to iTunes and leave <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> a review. I love getting your feedback, being in connection with you, and learning how we can continue to evolve and improve our program. Working together, I believe we can create a kinder and wiser world. SoundsTrue.com: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-9005","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nTerri Cole Becoming A Boundary Boss - Transcript | Sounds True<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with Terri Cole Becoming A Boundary Boss. 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