{"id":9087,"date":"2021-06-22T20:48:48","date_gmt":"2021-06-22T20:48:48","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=9087"},"modified":"2021-06-22T20:48:48","modified_gmt":"2021-06-22T20:48:48","slug":"no-bad-parts","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/","title":{"rendered":"No Bad Parts"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon:<\/b> Welcome to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>, produced by Sounds True. My name is Tami Simon. I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True, and I\u2019d love to take a moment to introduce you to the new Sounds True Foundation. The Sounds True Foundation is dedicated to creating a wiser and kinder world by making transformational education widely available. We want everyone to have access to transformational tools such as mindfulness, emotional awareness, and self-compassion, regardless of financial, social, or physical challenges. The Sounds True Foundation is a nonprofit dedicated to providing these transformational tools to communities in need, including at-risk youth, prisoners, veterans, and those in developing countries. If you\u2019d like to learn more or feel inspired to become a supporter, please visit SoundsTrueFoundation.org.<\/span><\/p>\n

You\u2019re listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. Today, my guest is Dr. Richard Schwartz. Friends and associates call him Dick. Dick Schwartz earned his PhD in marriage and family therapy from Purdue University, and he coauthored the book, <\/span>Family Therapy: Concepts and Methods<\/span><\/i>, the most widely used family therapy text in the United States. Dick is the developer of internal family systems, which is a model that he developed in response to client\u2019s descriptions of experiencing various parts\u2014many of them quite extreme\u2014within themselves.<\/span><\/p>\n

With Sounds True, Dick has written a new book. It\u2019s called <\/span>No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model<\/span><\/i>. What so impresses me about Dick is that he developed the family systems model based on actual client experience, empirical feedback from working directly with people really suffering, people suffering from bulimia and forms of self-injury. You\u2019ll hear about how he developed the model [for] getting client feedback, seeing what was alive and real in clients in the moment. What a pioneer he is. This is powerful work, looking at ourselves and welcoming every part of who we are. Here\u2019s my conversation with Dick Schwartz.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

I wanted to begin, Dick, by talking about the title of your new book, <\/span>No Bad Parts<\/span><\/i>. I think a lot of us would say, \u201cI\u2019m not so sure about that. This part of me that procrastinates a lot, this part of me that has a tendency to overeat\u201d\u2014fill it in\u2014\u201cI think that might be a part of me that\u2019s not so good.\u201d Can you explain this idea that all of us have no bad parts?<\/span><\/p>\n

Richard Schwartz:<\/b> Yes. It took me a really long time to come to that conclusion, and a lot of work with clients testing that out\u2014and clients who not only had parts that procrastinated, but parts that had done heinous things. It turns out that if you can focus on whatever the part is\u2014say it\u2019s a part that makes you addicted to something, or has made you hit somebody, or one of these nasty, nasty inner critics\u2014if you can just get curious about it and ask inside about why it does that job, why does it do this inside of you, and wait for the answer\u2014don\u2019t think of the answer\u2014you\u2019ll begin to hear about how it got forced into this role that\u2019s in, and a lot of the time, most of the time, how much it doesn\u2019t like the role but feels like it\u2019s necessary, usually to protect you or to protect other parts of you that are vulnerable.<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s a big paradigm shift. I try to make [it] clear in the book, because our culture, and also a lot of psychotherapies, demonized various parts of us, and think they are what they seem to be\u2014which never turns out to be the truth.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> You said it took a lot of work with clients, a lot of experiences, before you saw this very clearly, <\/span>No Bad Parts<\/span><\/i>; tell me how you came to see this through your own practice, through your own work with clients.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Well, yes, this goes back maybe 40 years now, so I\u2019m pretty old. I [\u2026] was one of those obnoxious family therapists that thought we\u2019d found the holy grail, and that people who mucked around in the internal world were just wasting their time because we could change everything you needed to change by just reorganizing families. I decided to prove that, and did an outcome study with bulimia, and brought together a bunch of bulimic kids and their families, and found I could reorganize the families, just the way the book said to, and still they kept bingeing and purging, much to my frustration. I began asking why, and they started talking this language of parts and would say some version of \u201cWhen something bad happens, this critic attacks me inside and it brings up a part who makes me feel worthless, and empty, and alone, and that feeling is so dreadful that the binge comes in to rescue me from it, but the act of the binge triggers the critic again.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

It sounded, as a family therapist, familiar, because that\u2019s what I\u2019d been studying, these patterns and families. At first, I thought, \u201cWell, that\u2019s a nice metaphor for different emotions and thoughts, and we can work with that.\u201d But they were talking about these things as if they had full personalities and a lot of autonomy, and that they couldn\u2019t control them. Then I got scared; I thought maybe these are people with multiple personality disorder, till I started listening inside myself, and \u201cOh, my god, I\u2019ve got them too, and mine has full personalities, and sometimes as extreme as theirs.\u201d Then I just got curious and have spent the next 40 years studying these internal systems.<\/span><\/p>\n

In the process of doing that, and trying to get my clients to relate to them, initially, because I assumed they were what they seemed, tried to get my clients to stand up for themselves to the critic, or control the binge, or things like that, clients were getting worse and worse, but I didn\u2019t know what else to do. Then there was a client who had a part that made her cut herself, and decided to try and control that part, so it didn\u2019t do it to her that week, and had her fight with that part for a couple hours until finally it said, \u201cOK, I won\u2019t do it.\u201d Then of course, she opened the door, and she had a big gash on the side of her face.<\/span><\/p>\n

I collapsed, and just out of the blue said, \u201cI can\u2019t beat you with this.\u201d And the part said it didn\u2019t want to beat me. That was the turning point, because I just became curious and I asked the part why it did what it did, and it talked about how it needed to protect her when she was being sexually abused as a child, and one way to do that would be to get her out of her body, and you could do that by cutting.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then I shifted again. Now I have an appreciation for the heroic role it played in her life. I conveyed that to it, and it broke into tears because everyone had demonized it. So, in talking to that part more I learned that it was still frozen in time during those sex abuse scenes and lived as if it thought she was five years old, and it protected other vulnerable parts and so on. It carried these extreme beliefs and emotions that came from those traumas that drove the way it operated, like a virus almost, like the coronavirus.<\/span><\/p>\n

With all of that, I started thinking maybe these parts aren\u2019t what they seem, maybe like kids in a family who get forced into an extreme role because of the dynamics of the family, who can be released from that extreme role by changing the dynamics of family, maybe that\u2019s what they\u2019re like. I proceeded to do that same process of just getting curious, getting my clients to get curious with these very damaging parts. Now, 40 years later, having worked with parts that have killed people, parts that have molested little kids, I can pretty safely say, there aren\u2019t any bad parts, they\u2019re all just stuck in the past, trying their best to keep you safe, and carrying these burdens, and beliefs, and emotions.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> [Yes.] You mentioned parts that have molested kids, and I know you write about how you worked as a consultant with the Onarga Academy for seven years, which is a treatment center in Illinois for sex offenders, and I can imagine a listener who immediately says, \u201cHold on, I was listening, I was interested, I was going along with everything, but when you talk about no bad parts, even the part that is a sex offender, you lost me Dick, you lost me there.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. It was one of those things where I would try this process with this one and I can\u2019t imagine that this one isn\u2019t bad either. Then, in listening to it, it turns out it\u2019s not.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Talk me through that. Help me appreciate it.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> OK, yes. So, as I had my client focus on the sex offending part and the processes, to find it in their body, and then get all the parts that hate it or fear it to open space, to just get open minded, curious about it and ask questions, it took us back to its abuse scenes when the perpetrator was being abused as a boy. When that was happening, there was a tremendous feeling of powerlessness, and this part stepped up to try and protect the whole system from the abuser and said, \u201cWho has power in this room? It\u2019s this guy doing this to me. I\u2019m going to take in his energy to try and protect the system from him,\u201d and then gets stuck with the perpetrator energy and the desire to hurt vulnerability. That\u2019s the burden that that particular protector wound up carrying.<\/span><\/p>\n

The nice thing about IFS is there\u2019s a way to unload that thing, and when you do, when the part\u2019s willing to give up whatever burden it carries, it\u2019s almost like a curse is lifted and it transforms immediately into its naturally valuable states, and even those parts will do that as well. As you\u2019re getting, and I\u2019m sure a lot of your listeners are getting, this is a radically different paradigm for understanding the human mind that has lots of implications for lots of things in our culture, including the way we treat sex offenders and prisoners in general.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK. I want to get more into this whole notion of unburdening or unloading and how a part can do that. But before we do, the notion that this is a radically different paradigm, you start out the book, <\/span>No Bad Parts<\/span><\/i>, and you say that we live in our culture with the myth of the mono mind, and I can imagine a lot of listeners right now have that view of, \u201cYes, there\u2019s something inside me that is a mono mind,\u201d meaning, \u201cI\u2019m not just all these parts; there\u2019s some central person who\u2019s putting all these pieces together.\u201d Tell me what you mean by the myth of the mono mind. And how do you get people who are listening right now to accept the idea we actually are all more like multiple personalities than this myth of the mono mind?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. So, the idea that the mind is unitary has a history that I covered to some degree in the book and is also related to the fear of being thought of as a multiple personality, which I alluded to earlier, or the fear of hearing voices means you\u2019re crazy\u2014which is true in some cases, but that\u2019s a totally different phenomenon. The delusional voices of schizophrenics, for example, are not the same.<\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s that stigma that\u2019s come from the mental health system. So, you wind up thinking that \u201cI\u2019m just one mind with a bunch of different thoughts and emotions that are fairly ephemeral and not necessarily worth getting to know because it\u2019s just a thought.\u201d And that has really kept people from doing this process inside where it turns out that what I\u2019m calling parts are ubiquitous, it\u2019s the nature of the mind to have them, and that\u2019s actually a good thing because they\u2019re all valuable. They have valuable talents and resources to lend to us to help us in our life.<\/span><\/p>\n

But like I was saying, they get forced out of those naturally valuable states into destructive roles sometimes. The mono mind is a big obstacle for me because it\u2019s not uncommon that as I would start to introduce this to people, they would say, \u201cWhat do you think I\u2019m crazy? I don\u2019t have these things inside.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK, let\u2019s move along with the person who says, \u201cI definitely know that I have different voices inside of me that are saying different things to me in different situations. What I want to understand more is the positive, powerful intentions of these parts of me that currently don\u2019t seem to be supportive; they\u2019re screwing me up.\u201d Let\u2019s just take the classic, the inner critic. \u201cI don\u2019t experience the inner critic as helping me, I experience it as making me terrified, keeping me from doing things, shutting me down if I don\u2019t do it perfectly.\u201d How could there be a positive function that the inner critic is providing?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. Tami, are you speaking of your own inner critic or just in the\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> How\u2019d you know? I picked it just as an example that I could relate to, but I think many people can relate to as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes, for sure. I could offer to help you find out about your own if you\u2019re up for it, but I don\u2019t want to pressure you into anything you don\u2019t want to do in public.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Let\u2019s keep going in general terms for now, but we\u2019ll see what happens.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> All right, sounds good. If you were up for it, I would have you focus on that critical voice, find it in your body. Most people find that particular part in their head somewhere. And I would ask you, \u201cTami, how do you feel toward that critical part of you?\u201d And it\u2019s likely you\u2019d say something like, \u201cI hate it. It just makes me feel really bad, and it keeps me from doing what I want to do in my life and holds me back.\u201d But we would ask the ones who hate it to give us the space to get curious, and I wouldn\u2019t have you talk to it until you at least had some open mindedness toward it.<\/span><\/p>\n

At that point, I would have you ask it, \u201cWhat\u2019s it afraid would happen if it didn\u2019t do this to all day?\u201d It\u2019s likely it would say some version of, or you would hear without thinking, \u201cJust wait and see what comes back to you from that part,\u201d that it\u2019s afraid if it didn\u2019t do this to you, you\u2019d get hurt maybe, or people would judge you, or you wouldn\u2019t be perfect and then you\u2019d be abandoned, or there\u2019s always some protective reason. Then I would have you say to it, \u201cIf we could go to the part of you that it protects, that has been hurt in the past, and heal that so it wasn\u2019t such a threat, would this part have to keep doing this?\u201d Most of the time they\u2019ll say, \u201cNo, they wouldn\u2019t have to.\u201d And I might ask, \u201cWhat would it like to do instead of being this critic?\u201d Often, oddly enough, the answer is the opposite role. You might hear it say, \u201cI\u2019d like to be your cheerleader. I\u2019d like to help you get out in the world. I\u2019d like to help you feel good about yourself.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

We would then negotiate permission from it to go to what it protected, that vulnerable, hurt part, and we have a process for actually unburdening that part so that it felt much, much better and less vulnerable, and then bring the critic in to see that what it was protecting is no longer needed, and see now if it would like to shift into that other role. So, that\u2019s in a nutshell the process we do.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> [Yes.] Help me understand when you say, \u201cunburdening.\u201d The inner critic is protecting some burdened part of me, some scared part of me that\u2019s afraid of failure, the end of my career, disappointing people, whatever, being made fun of\u2014we could keep going; how is this part going to get unburdened so that the inner critic can go become my cheerleader? I like that notion.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. So, I would again have you focus on that one that felt that way, any of those ways you just said, and I would ask you how you feel toward it. And often you might spontaneously say, I feel sorry for that part of me that feels so bad. And I would say, could you internally convey that compassion to that part, often it\u2019s a younger part of you, maybe a little girl in your case, and tell me how it\u2019s reacting to your compassion. And you would say, she doesn\u2019t totally trust me because I haven\u2019t been there for her. OK. And we would spend time helping you connect with that little girl, for lack of a better word, until she did trust you. And again, all this is happening spontaneously without you imagining anything or making it happen.<\/span><\/p>\n

At some point, I would say, \u201cTami, ask this little girl what happened in the past that made her feel so bad.\u201d You would maybe see scenes, you might start to feel the emotions, you might start to feel the sensations. I would help you stay with all that until the girl felt like you finally got what happened and how bad it was, because most of us, when we get hurt like that, as the rugged individualist society that we are, we just try to leave it in the dust, and don\u2019t look back, and just move on. So, we have all these, what I call exiled parts of us, who get locked in inner basements, in abysses, and are still hurting; they\u2019re still frozen in those scenes.<\/span><\/p>\n

We would do that until the part felt like now you get what happened. Then I would have you, in your mind\u2019s eye, enter that scene and be with her in that terrible time, and the way she needed somebody, which is a process we call a retrieval. We would do that until she was ready to leave with you and come either to the present with you or to fantasy place that was safe. Once she was there, I would have you ask if now that she trusts she never has to go back there again, if she\u2019s willing to unload the feelings and beliefs she got from those times. Most of these exiles are at that point willing to give all that up because they know now they\u2019re safe.<\/span><\/p>\n

There\u2019s a ritualized process for that: find, ask her where she carries the belief that the world is terribly dangerous, ask her where she carries that in her body; the part can tell you; and ask what she\u2019d like to give it up to. We have the menu of the elements really: light, water, fire, wind, earth, or anything else; maybe she wants to give it to light; we have the light come in; she lets it go out of her body. As soon as she lets it go, now she feels much lighter, she wants to play, and then we can bring in the critic to see that it doesn\u2019t have to protect her anymore, and now see what it wants to do.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> That\u2019s very helpful, those specifics. Now, Dick, something that\u2019s interesting to me is I\u2019ve heard Internal Family Systems therapy now described as an evidence-based approach. I know that you are teaching at Harvard Medical School, and as you\u2019re describing this to me, this process, I\u2019m like, \u201cIs this evidence-based now?\u201d What does that mean? I mean, is the evidence the thousands of people that you\u2019ve worked with, and IFS teachers have now worked with?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Well, that\u2019s one form of evidence, but we have done several outcome studies, and, based on them, have achieved what\u2019s called evidence-based standing with an organization called SAMHSA, which is a federal agency. So, yes, we\u2019ve done a lot of our homework.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Like what studies? Just impress me. Go ahead.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> The study I like best actually was done here in Boston at Brigham and Women\u2019s Hospital with 30 rheumatoid arthritis patients as compared to another group of 30 rheumatoid arthritis patients. The first group got six months of IFS therapy, the other group got educational control. The focus was on their arthritis on the joints, number of joints, the amount of pain, but also on level of depression and anxiety and a number of other things like that. After those six months, the therapy group, the IFS group, showed vast improvement in all those areas including the rheumatoid arthritis as measured by blinded physicians, much more improved than the control group and followed for some months afterwards, and some people went into complete remission.<\/span><\/p>\n

To give you a sample of how that worked, these were, to generalize, Irish Catholic Boston mothers who had these what become massive caretaking parts that took care of everybody else but never let them take care of themselves. As we had them focus on the pain and ask it questions, the parts that were giving them the pain began to talk about how much that they hated the caretaking part because they wanted to have a life, they wanted to assert themselves, they wanted to have more balance or justice in their lives. And as we worked that out, that polarization out, again, the pain really started to change, because these other parts didn\u2019t have to keep pushing the arthritis button to get their attention. And so that\u2019s just one of the outcome studies, and it\u2019s published in a very reputable medical journal called, <\/span>The Journal of Rheumatology<\/span><\/i>.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Wonderful. Now, towards the beginning of <\/span>No Bad Parts<\/span><\/i>, you say, here are three discoveries that you made in terms of Internal Family Systems and parts. The first, that even our most destructive parts have protective intentions. I think you\u2019ve done a pretty good job pointing to that. So, for example, in the rheumatoid arthritis study, just to ask a question, that part of us that\u2019s the over-caretaker, that part, like \u201cI\u2019m so sick of it. I spend all my time taking care of other people, other people, other people,\u201d what is its protective intention? How does it transform through IFS?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. Again, if you were to ask that part, what\u2019s it afraid would happen if it didn\u2019t constantly do this? Usually, there are beliefs about your value. It\u2019s afraid that this is the only value you have, is to do this for people, and that it comes from the messages that many women get in their lives. And it carries that particular burden, but it\u2019s also protecting parts that are afraid to lose the love of the people around them if they don\u2019t constantly do this. So, it\u2019s generally just trying to make everybody happy and there\u2019s some belief in there often that they don\u2019t deserve to be taken care of or to take care of themselves. And that\u2019s an exile that we often will have to get to before this caretaking part is willing to lighten up.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK. This word \u201cexile,\u201d that\u2019s a very powerful word. I think even people just hear that and go, \u201cWhat? Oh, my god, you talked about it hidden in the basement this part of ourselves.\u201d In the model you talk about exiles and then broad categories, protectors. How did you come up with these two broad categories?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Well, as I was interviewing parts in people about their parts in the very early years, back 40 years ago almost, I was hearing about parts, and I got hip to the fact they\u2019re not what they seem but they are in these roles. I was clearly making mistakes early on because clients were having pretty bad immediate reactions after leaving my sessions, and they were often sessions where we were working with these hurt parts that the client would talk about.<\/span><\/p>\n

I got very scared by that, because some of the reactions were quite severe, and I almost backed away from it, but then I got curious. And again, I\u2019m a systems thinker; I\u2019m trying to figure out how this whole inner system works. And in interviewing clients, I learned that I was violating the rules of these, what we call now protectors, who had spent 30 years trying to keep these exiles locked up, and here I was coming in and opening the door and trying to bring all that raw emotion forward. So, my clients were being punished by these other parts for doing that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then I just started to, again, learn from clients the various distinctions in there between these parts. The big distinction that\u2019s held up over all these years is between these exiles who generally, before they got hurt, they were these what are called playful inner children; you\u2019d love to be around them, because they have so much creativity and delight in the world, and want to be close to people, and a lot of innocence and playfulness. But after they get hurt, or terrified, or shamed, because they\u2019re often the most sensitive parts of us\u2014so traumas, they\u2019re the ones who take in those burdens the most of fear, or worthlessness, or emotional pain, or sense of abandonment, or so on\u2014once they get burdened by those feelings, we no longer want to be around them anymore because they have the power now to overwhelm us with that and make it so we can\u2019t function or think a lot of the time.<\/span><\/p>\n

Everybody around us tells us, \u201cJust move on. Don\u2019t look back.\u201d So, we lock them away, not knowing that we\u2019re locking away our juice, and thinking we\u2019re just moving on from the memories of the trauma or the emotions of the trauma. When you get a lot of exiles, you feel a lot more delicate, the world feels a lot more dangerous, and other parts are forced into these protector roles out of their naturally valuable states, and they become the critics, or they become the bingeing parts.<\/span><\/p>\n

Like we\u2019ve been talking about, their MO is to keep the exiles contained and to keep the outside world from triggering them. So, they become very controlling of what happens in your life if they can, or keep you in your head so you don\u2019t feel much in your body. There\u2019s a whole variety of common protector roles, some of them are trying to manage your life and preempt anything that might trigger these exiles, so we call them managers. The critics are one class of manager for example.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then others react after the fact, after an exile has been triggered. These flames of emotion explode out of your inner basement and threaten to consume you; somebody\u2019s got to do something to get away from that. So, there are parts that will then scramble to dissociate you or scramble to binge on something, to get higher than the flames or douse the flames with some substance, or gets you into a rage. So, instead of feeling powerless, you feel strong, or go write another article so that you get accolades and you counter the worthlessness. Those we call firefighters because they\u2019re fighting these flames of exiled emotion. And most all of us have both kinds of parts, managers and firefighters, trying to protect these very raw exiles.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[ADVERTISEMENT]<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> It\u2019s OK That You\u2019re Not OK<\/span><\/i>, that\u2019s the title of Megan Devine\u2019s first book about grief, a book that has touched the hearts of many people who are trying to find a way to survive after losing someone they love. Megan\u2019s approach is so powerful because of her unflinching vulnerability about the heartbreak of grief. Without any platitudes, timetables, or shortcuts, she nevertheless offers guidance for creating a new life that incorporates our sorrow while finding new meaning, hope, and joy. Megan\u2019s new journal is called, <\/span>How to Carry What Can\u2019t Be Fixed<\/span><\/i>. It\u2019s a day-to-day companion for navigating our unique journey of grief. You can find <\/span>How to Carry What Can\u2019t Be Fixed<\/span><\/i> at bookstores, online, and at SoundsTrue.com.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

[END OF ADVERTISEMENT]<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

You mentioned, Dick, that early on when you were starting, you would start having a conversation with the exile part and then you saw that your clients afterwards were having trouble after the session. How did you change the approach of IFS to make it work better for your clients?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes, as I said, I just started to ask clients, \u201cWhat am I doing wrong?\u201d They started to teach me that I\u2019m not being ecologically sensitive. These are delicate ecologies we\u2019re entering when we do psychotherapy, especially this intense inner work. These ecologies have their rules. I was bypassing protectors and going right to exiles without their permission, so they were what we call backlashing on a client. I had clients get into an accident just leaving my office, didn\u2019t see the other car, or a spike of big fever right afterwards. At some point I got hip to the fact there\u2019s a connection between what was happening in the session and these big reactions afterwards and decided to just try and learn what I was doing wrong.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Right. Then you learned a different approach, and that\u2019s what I want to make sure is clear. What is your approach now in IFS that doesn\u2019t have people getting fevers when\u2014I hope\u2014walking out? Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. So, what I learned the hard way was the importance of respecting these protective parts. And so, if you, Tami, were to say, \u201cI\u2019ve got\u201d\u2014 I\u2019m not saying this is true for you\u2014\u201cbut I\u2019ve got this really young feeling inside that feels so worthless. Can you help me with that?\u201d I would say, \u201cWe can get to that, but first I want to talk to the parts that don\u2019t want us anywhere near that. And let me just see if there\u2019s some fear about going there, and let\u2019s start there, let\u2019s focus on that one first.\u201d That would be a protector.<\/span><\/p>\n

We would just get to know all the fears about going to that place. There\u2019s a way to get permission, to go with permission [\u2026]. Some therapies are very effective at bypassing protectors\u2014and then triggering these protector backlashes afterwards and not understanding that\u2019s what it\u2019s about.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> So, one of the things that you say in your book <\/span>No Bad Parts<\/span><\/i> is that our parts actually are sacred beings\u2014and I think I have an innate appreciation of that, as you\u2019re talking\u2014but also that they have bodies. I thought that\u2019s interesting. What bodies are you talking about, like astral forms or what are you talking about?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> I don\u2019t really know how to describe it other than, as you ask these questions inside\u2014I\u2019m talking about literal bodies\u2014but, for example, if we did a piece of work with that worthless part, and we got it out of the past, and we got it so that it trusted you and you were taking care of it now, and I wanted to know if it was ready to unburden, to release the extreme beliefs and emotions that it\u2019s been carrying since the time it felt so ashamed, and I would have you ask if it\u2019s ready to unload all this stuff, and it said yes, the next question would be [to] ask where it carries that in its body or on its body. It would give you an answer. \u201cIt\u2019s this fireball in my gut.\u201d Or \u201cIt\u2019s this weight on my shoulders. It\u2019s the slime on my arms.\u201d And I would say, \u201cOK, is it ready to let that go out of its body?\u201d And it would say yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m a, what\u2019s called an empiricist. I\u2019m a phenomenologist. I just study the reports from clients. Do I absolutely believe in all of this stuff? I\u2019m not sure. But if you ask, parts will describe their bodies.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK. And you talk about the possibility of permanent unburdening, like the part of me that feels worthless could have a permanent unburdening of this feeling. I was really curious about that. I was wondering if you in your own life have experienced this type of permanent unburdening of parts that you previously found really difficult to live with?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes, many. Yes. So, I don\u2019t know how much to go into my history, but I came out of my family\u2014part of the reason I mentioned worthless so much is that was a big, big one for me.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I\u2019d rather go into your history than my history, so let\u2019s go there.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> All right. All right. My father was a big-name academic physician. I\u2019m the oldest of six boys and I was supposed to be something like that. And I just didn\u2019t have a head for school, and it frustrated the hell out of him. Three of my brothers followed in his shoes. So, I felt, coming out of my family, like I really didn\u2019t have any much value at all; parts of me felt that way. But I had reasonably well exiled them and became dominated by protectors that could be quite arrogant, and angry, and dissociating in a way, which is part of why I wasn\u2019t a good student, because it was very hard to concentrate; I probably qualified for ADHD or something like that.<\/span><\/p>\n

I also had a part that was determined to prove him wrong, which actually gave me the drive to get this far, to bring IFS to where it is. Once I started to have these discoveries and thought, \u201cWow, this is really interesting. I don\u2019t see it anywhere else. Maybe I could get some self-esteem from doing this.\u201d So, I did, and took a lot of hits along the way, and relied on a part of me that didn\u2019t give a shit about what people thought, and just kept doing it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then I became a leader and had a community, and all of those protectors were getting in my way, in a big way as a leader. I was lucky to have some colleagues who could point that out to me, and basically said, \u201cYou better do your work, your own work. Here you are espousing to everybody else, \u2018This is what you got to do,\u2019 and look at you.\u201d After getting very defensive and fighting with them, I started to actually listen.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, I went to the part that felt so worthless and saw scenes of my father saying, \u201cWhat the hell is wrong with you?\u201d and just shaming me in a merciless way. I mean, to be balanced, he was also one of my two parents that I felt a lot of affection for. At other times I was pretty disconnected from my mother, so just to be fair. But those intense shaming episodes really went into my heart.<\/span><\/p>\n

I was able to witness all that very painfully, and then go in and get that boy away from him and bring him to live with me and unload a lot of the worthlessness. I\u2019m still finding some here and there, but ever since that, I just haven\u2019t felt that all. Then all these other protectors could come down and I could lead this journey of bringing IFS to the world from what I call Self, which we really haven\u2019t talked about yet, in a much different way.<\/span><\/p>\n

At that point, it started to become received by the listeners in a different way, because before, I would have to put down all kinds of other therapies and say, \u201cThis is the best\u201d [\u2026]. Anyway, I hope all that made sense.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I think it did. In talking about matching these exiled parts of ourselves with the protectors, in <\/span>No Bad Parts<\/span><\/i>, you describe it as discovering a clove of garlic within a whole cluster of cloves. I thought that was a curious metaphor that I was wondering if you could explain a little bit why you went to a head of garlic to explain how this all works, these pairings, and groupings, and constellations of parts.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Well, the vegetable that psychotherapy has been compared to the most is the onion where you peel away the layers, you get to this core, heal that and the therapy is over. But I was finding that we would work with one set of parts around one particular trauma, and we could unburden them, and the client would feel better, but there were all these other little inner systems that hadn\u2019t been touched by that particular work. So, the onion didn\u2019t work for me; I had to find another vegetable. It is like we have all these clusters of protectors and exiles based on one trauma in our life, and we work with that, and then we got to go to the next clove of the garlic that\u2019s about some entirely different trauma maybe, some entirely different episode and we work with that, and then so on.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Nice, smelly, stinky, big clove of strong, powerful, healing garlic, I like it. OK, you mentioned the Self and that we hadn\u2019t talked about it yet, and we have to. You write in the book that the centerpiece of the IFS model is self-leadership. Right here at the beginning, I want to understand how discovering ourselves and being self-led is different from this idea of having a unitary vision of the mind, the mono myth that we refer to, how are these different?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes, so as I was doing this work, and once I got hip to the fact that parts weren\u2019t what they seem, I would try to get my clients to be respectful, and listen, and learn the secret histories of these parts, and they weren\u2019t cooperating, my client would\u2014let\u2019s say, about the critic again: \u201cHow do you feel toward it?\u201d \u201cI hate it.\u201d \u201cOK, well, try to talk to it anyway.\u201d And you can imagine how that went. At some point I started thinking maybe this is like working in a family session where you\u2019re trying to have two people talk to each other but there\u2019s a third person who\u2019s jumping in and muddying the water. So, I would say, \u201cTami, can you find the part that hates the critic, and could you get it to just relax and step back inside or open space?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

To my amazement, clients could do that. When they did it, it was like some other person popped up and would take leadership inside. That person, instead of hating the critic, would be curious about it, would be calm, would have confidence relative to it, might even have compassion\u2014\u201cI feel sorry that it has to do this job\u201d; they also would be clear and courageous. I\u2019m naming what we call the eight C\u2019s of self-leadership. So, connectedness and\u2014I forgot which ones I\u2019ve named. I\u2019m missing one.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Courage.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Creativity. I think I said courage.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Creativity, good.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> I would do the same process with other clients, and it was like the same person would pop out, who knew how to relate in a healing way to these parts. When I would ask clients, \u201cWhat part of you is that?\u201d They\u2019d say some version of, \u201cThat\u2019s me. That\u2019s not a part. That\u2019s myself.\u201d I came to call that the Self, with a capital S, to distinguish it from the common use of the word \u201cself.\u201d And now 40 years later, thousands of people are using this all over the world; we can pretty safely say that that Self, with those eight C qualities, is in everybody, can\u2019t be damaged and knows how to heal both inside and in relationships, and is just beneath the surface of these parts such that when they do open space, you become that person.<\/span><\/p>\n

That person is what people meditate to get to, that person in other traditions would be called Buddha nature, or Atman, or there\u2019s analogies in most every spiritual tradition, and I stumbled onto a way to access that person pretty quickly, and not only have it become a kind of observing presence, as in mindfulness, but to become an active leader.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> How do I increase being self-led in my own inner experience as I\u2019m starting to become aware of these garlic clusters? I want to be more self-led, so that I can understand how these parts are interacting with each other and have more of this witnessing the eight C\u2019s that you mentioned. How do I do that? I want the eight C\u2019s.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> You have them. Luckily, you already have them.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> All right, that\u2019s a good start.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> But how do you access them? That\u2019s what you\u2019re asking. In the book I have a series of exercises designed in different ways to help people do that, which generally involve\u2014one exercise would be, \u201cSo, Tami, think of a person that generally triggers you in your life.\u201d It may well be that there isn\u2019t anybody in yours anymore but\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I can come up with a few, Dick. Don\u2019t you worry. Yes.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> At least come up with a politician that triggers you, and then put that person in a room by him or herself. You\u2019re outside the room looking at him through a window. And have him do the thing that gets to you. As you watch, notice what happens in your body, what comes up, what kind of thoughts, what kind of emotions. That would be mindfulness; you\u2019re just noticing. But then pick one of those protectors and begin to focus on it and notice how you feel toward that protective part of you that tries to protect you from this person. Ask any other parts that don\u2019t like it or are afraid of it to just relax inside.<\/span><\/p>\n

People will, just through that much instruction, often start to feel open to this protector they didn\u2019t like and will begin to have this dialogue spontaneously. It really turns out to be just that simple, just getting parts to open space releases the self, and a lot of those exercises are designed to help people do that on their own.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> One of the things you write about, in a chapter called \u201cHow Parts Blend,\u201d is that there can be parts of us that we experience as blended with the Self, and we have to try to tease that apart. Can you talk to me more about that? How might various parts be blended with my own sense of self?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. So, let\u2019s say you make a mistake. All of a sudden, you have this rush of shame, and you see yourself as this really worthless person. That would be that critic totally blending with you. And you became that part and walked around feeling totally worthless, for some period of time, often, until it does unblend and you have a little more access to Self again.<\/span><\/p>\n

I think I mentioned that our little dog just died yesterday. Both my wife and I are finding parts that will blend and make us feel like, \u201cIf only we had done this, if only we had done this, and why didn\u2019t we spend more time,\u201d and you\u2019re just in it. You just feel like you should have done\u2014and then to help each other separate and find the part that\u2019s feeling so guilty and begin to work with it. Then I shift from being this little kid who feels like I really screwed up, to being in these eight C qualities, feeling really bad for that little kid and wanting to help him. That would be unblending from that part.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> As much as I like the eight C\u2019s (and I wrote them down: curiosity, calm, confidence, compassion, creativity, clarity, courage, connectedness) as these qualities of being in the self, there was a part of me that was like, \u201cThis is all getting catchy. Starts with a C.\u201d I wondered if you could explain to me what it feels like to be self-led without using any of those C words. The reason I\u2019m asking you that is it makes it start feeling a little like path to me, and I just wonder what the inner experience is like, like \u201cThis is what it feels like in this moment being self-led,\u201d or in an example with the grief that you\u2019re feeling with this loss and how that can come in and trigger you into other parts blending with that self-leadership.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. As you get more into this, it becomes a daily practice. So, as I go through my day, and particularly if I\u2019m facing an interview like this, [because of] which there are parts of me that would have some anxiety about it, I\u2019ll just notice the anxiety; and it typically happens in my chest, in my throat, across my forehead; so, I can physically notice the parts that are scared. Part of the practice then is to just ask them to relax a little bit and let me handle the interview. Because I\u2019ve done this many times, they trust it\u2019s safe to let that happen. As they separate, in response to my request, I just start to feel more what might be called centered, for example, I don\u2019t feel afraid anymore, there\u2019s an energy running through my body that\u2019s vibrating, and I see you clearly. I don\u2019t see you as some big, scary authority, although you have a lot of authority.<\/span><\/p>\n

I feel my heart open, I feel very interested in engaging with you, relating to you, so I\u2019m just checking. I have four or five common markers, I check, \u201cDo I have a big agenda here? Do I want to really impress Tami? Do I really want to sell this book? All right, all you guys need to open space too, so I can just be there and have this interesting conversation.\u201d Is that helping? Is this\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> It is. It is. Just to say, Dick, part of me gets anxious too.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Good, I\u2019m glad we have good company.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> We clarified that. One of the sections in the book that I could really relate to, in terms of a part blending with ourselves and taking over, is when we get reactive in a relationship dynamic. I think a lot of people can relate to this with their intimate partner\u2014something gets triggered. When that trigger happens, it\u2019s really hard to access that curious, open self. It\u2019s like, \u201cWell, I\u2019ve been hijacked,\u201d hijacking has occurred. What I loved in the book is you talked about how it can be healing, once you get sane after you\u2019ve been hijacked, to describe how a part of me felt this way. I wonder if you can talk more about that for those of us in intimate relationships who find ourselves getting hijacked and how we can work with that with our partner.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. So just the language of parts is very useful in relationships because if I were talking to you and we had a big conflict just now, and I said, \u201cTami, I hate it when you do that,\u201d that\u2019s me blended with this protector. It\u2019s not an accurate statement, because all of me doesn\u2019t hate that, all of me doesn\u2019t feel angry too, there is a protective part that you triggered. If instead I was to stop and listen to that protective part, and learn about what it was protecting, and then spoke for it, in the sense of saying, \u201cWhen you said this thing, Tami, it triggered this angry part of me, and I learned it was protecting this worthless part that I\u2019ve been talking about.\u201d That\u2019s a very different message to you than \u201cI hate when you do this to me this way.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

A lot of times when we\u2019re working with couples, we\u2019re inviting what we call a U-turn in their focus. As they get into it, instead of continuing to have these parts battle with each other across the person, have them both stop, focus inside, notice the parts that have been doing the talking, separate, unblend (in the way we\u2019ve been talking about), get to know them, and don\u2019t come back until you can speak for them from Self rather than from them. We find that when people can do that, it\u2019s a very different conversation, Self-to-Self communication is entirely different from protector-to-protector communication.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Once again, I\u2019d much rather talk about you than me. Would you be willing to give me an example of you and your wife having a conversation like that that works? You can give me a positive example of how maybe it didn\u2019t work and then it worked, something like that.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. OK, I won\u2019t give you the content about our fight because it makes me look pretty bad.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> That\u2019s fine.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> But we did have a recent row that lasted quite a while. And this protector of mine, when it comes out\u2014I think I alluded to [how] I wasn\u2019t close to my mother, and I had a lot of resentment about the fact that I think she liked my brothers better than me. So, that part that felt that way about my mother\u2014which is called transference, of course\u2014starts to feel that way about Jean. When it takes over, it really makes a very compelling case about why I\u2019m right and she\u2019s wrong. And actually, if I look through that part\u2019s eyes, she shifts from being very attractive to not being that attractive. I start having these thoughts about, \u201cWhy am I with her again?\u201d Then my interactions with her are all quite surly. And again, I\u2019m making myself look pretty bad here.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Human.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Yes. Then we both learned, though, the value of separating\u2014I [\u2026] mean just getting away from each other for a few minutes, and going in\u2014and I would notice, \u201cOK, there is this part that got triggered by her,\u201d to it being very critical of me about something I\u2019m not doing, and I could get it to separate; and once it separates, I can say, \u201cWell she has a point, I\u2019m really haven\u2019t been coming through in that way.\u201d And I can hear from a lot of other parts, where I can\u2019t when I\u2019m totally blinded with that one.<\/span><\/p>\n

I can then come back and say, \u201cThere\u2019s this part that really didn\u2019t like what you said and made me feel like you really don\u2019t get me, you don\u2019t care about me. But then I got a little distance from it, I listened, and you do have a point about this thing, and I do apologize for that. And I\u2019m going to keep working with this part, so it doesn\u2019t totally blend the way it has. And I\u2019m sorry that I haven\u2019t been able to control that, I know I\u2019ve been angry and mean lately.\u201d So, I don\u2019t know if this is doing what you\u2019re asking but\u2014<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> No, it\u2019s a great example.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Good.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> OK, Dick, I have two final questions for you here as we come to a close up. The first is one of the things I loved reading about in <\/span>No Bad Parts,<\/span><\/i> when you were writing about the Self, is you were taking us through this inquiry, this investigation about looking at the Self as an individual, more like a particle or more of like a wave, using physics to have this exploration, but then you said, \u201cWhat if it\u2019s more like a field? What if the Self is like a field? And what if when we\u2019re in this field of the Self, were resonating with the self in everyone?\u201d I absolutely loved that. Just intuitively I thought, \u201cDick is really onto something here looking at being in the Self as a field,\u201d and I wanted to understand more about that.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> OK. Yes, that\u2019s the way I\u2019ve come to see Self, that it isn\u2019t individualized; it\u2019s not this little particle inside of us; but that actually, it is a field or a wave; and that when you enter that (and mystics have entered that for years; people can enter that these days through psychedelics often or meditating) you lose the boundaries around your individual body actually a lot of the time, and enter that field, you do feel this enormous connectedness and sense that we aren\u2019t really different, we aren\u2019t disconnected in the way we have been. And that then if you can bring that awareness, that C word, connectedness, back into your individual, body-bound Self (which is a lot of the impact I think of psychedelics now) it really changes many things in people\u2019s lives, just that knowledge that we\u2019re not these isolated little units. So, I think that\u2019s what you\u2019re getting.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Yes. And then finally, believe it or not, for my last question\u2014and I had to be careful here what I pick, [as] I only get one more\u2014I\u2019m going to ask you a really practical one, which is: Now I\u2019ve been exposed to IFS through your writing and your audio work, and I\u2019ve had a couple conversations with you, but I\u2019ve never actually worked with an IFS therapist; I\u2019ve never said, \u201cI\u2019m going to go do a series of X number of sessions or something.\u201d And what I notice is that as I learn about it, I have so many aha\u2019s, I have so many insights, and I have such great respect for the model. And I\u2019m suspecting that it can only go so deep unless I do a body of work; I\u2019ve got to commit to working with a therapist for a certain number of sessions or something like that. I wonder, we may have listeners who are in a similar position; they\u2019ve listened to this conversation and they\u2019ve made certain connections they never made before. But in order for IFS to really have real transformation in someone\u2019s life, do they have to commit to do a certain number of sessions, something like that?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> It varies a lot. So, there are people who amaze me, who can take some of the exercises in the book or some of the meditations I have online and can do an enormous amount just from that. Then there are other people, like myself, because I can\u2019t do that. When I start to go to my own exiles, I definitely need somebody in the room; it\u2019s too scary. I can get to know a lot of protectors by myself, but to do the really deep healing you\u2019re talking about, I need someone to guide me. So, yes, there\u2019s just a range.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> All right. We\u2019ll make that the penultimate\u2014we\u2019ll make this the ultimate question: What do you hope the legacy, the impact of IFS will be in the world? You\u2019ve been at this for 40 years. What a terrific pioneer you are. You said you had to go through and do all this personal work in order to be able to hold this mantle properly. And it\u2019s clear that you\u2019ve been at this with a lot of heart and soul and perseverance for a long time. What do you hope the legacy will be?<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Well, if this were to pan out and go as far as it could, it does change the way people understand themselves and each other in a very profound way. If everybody knew that there was this undamageable, intact, eight C-word Self inside of themselves and everybody else; and that they were connected in the way we were talking about before; and that these protectors aren\u2019t what they seem and they don\u2019t have to fight inside with them (instead, love helps them transform), and it\u2019s all parallel; the more you can love your parts that drive you crazy ordinarily, the more you can love people who resemble those parts the same way; then it does change many, many aspects of human interacting, and will have a big impact on the culture.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

I used to think this sounded very grandiose because I had my own worthlessness that I had to combat, but now, I am convinced that this paradigm is one of many\u2014and it\u2019s not the only one\u2014but it\u2019s one of many that are starting to become available now that could make a profound change in human interacting.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I\u2019ve been speaking with Dick Schwartz. He\u2019s the creator of Internal Family Systems. With Sounds True he\u2019s written a new book. It\u2019s called <\/span>No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model<\/span><\/i>. Dick, thank you so much. I always learn so much every time we talk. It\u2019s terrific. Thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n

RS:<\/b> Thank you, Tami. I always love talking to you as well, and I\u2019m very, very honored by your publishing this and your interest now in IFS.<\/span><\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Thank you for listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. You can read a full transcript of today\u2019s interview at SoundsTrue.com\/podcast. If you\u2019re interested, hit the Subscribe button in your podcast app. Also, if you feel inspired, head to iTunes and leave <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i> a review. I love getting your feedback, being in connection with you, and learning how we can continue to evolve and improve our program. Working together, I believe we can create a kinder and wiser world. SoundsTrue.com: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"template":"","meta":{"_expiration-date-status":"","_expiration-date":0,"_expiration-date-type":"","_expiration-date-categories":[],"_expiration-date-options":[]},"class_list":["post-9087","transcript","type-transcript","status-publish","hentry"],"yoast_head":"\nNo Bad Parts - Transcript | Sounds True<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with No Bad Parts. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdom.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"noindex, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"No Bad Parts - Transcript | Sounds True\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with No Bad Parts. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdom.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Sounds True\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"43 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/\",\"name\":\"No Bad Parts - Transcript | Sounds True\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2021-06-22T20:48:48+00:00\",\"description\":\"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with No Bad Parts. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdom.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"Transcripts\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":3,\"name\":\"No Bad Parts\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/\",\"name\":\"Sounds True\",\"description\":\"\",\"publisher\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#organization\"},\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":{\"@type\":\"PropertyValueSpecification\",\"valueRequired\":true,\"valueName\":\"search_term_string\"}}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Organization\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#organization\",\"name\":\"Sounds True\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/\",\"logo\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/soundstrue-logo-footer-color.png\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/soundstrue-logo-footer-color.png\",\"width\":1035,\"height\":235,\"caption\":\"Sounds True\"},\"image\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/\"}}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"No Bad Parts - Transcript | Sounds True","description":"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with No Bad Parts. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdom.","robots":{"index":"noindex","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"No Bad Parts - Transcript | Sounds True","og_description":"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with No Bad Parts. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdom.","og_url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/","og_site_name":"Sounds True","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Est. reading time":"43 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/","url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/","name":"No Bad Parts - Transcript | Sounds True","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#website"},"datePublished":"2021-06-22T20:48:48+00:00","description":"Read the full transcript from this Sounds True conversation with No Bad Parts. Explore teachings on meditation and spiritual wisdom.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/no-bad-parts\/#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"Transcripts","item":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":3,"name":"No Bad Parts"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#website","url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/","name":"Sounds True","description":"","publisher":{"@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#organization"},"potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":{"@type":"PropertyValueSpecification","valueRequired":true,"valueName":"search_term_string"}}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Organization","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#organization","name":"Sounds True","url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/","logo":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/soundstrue-logo-footer-color.png","contentUrl":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2024\/08\/soundstrue-logo-footer-color.png","width":1035,"height":235,"caption":"Sounds True"},"image":{"@id":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/#\/schema\/logo\/image\/"}}]}},"acf":[],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/transcript\/9087","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/transcript"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/transcript"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=9087"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}