{"id":9315,"date":"2021-09-21T15:12:58","date_gmt":"2021-09-21T21:12:58","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/?post_type=transcript&p=9315"},"modified":"2021-09-21T15:12:58","modified_gmt":"2021-09-21T21:12:58","slug":"the-biofield-the-missing-link-between-healing-and-consciousness","status":"publish","type":"transcript","link":"https:\/\/resources2.soundstrue.com\/transcript\/the-biofield-the-missing-link-between-healing-and-consciousness\/","title":{"rendered":"The Biofield: The Missing Link Between Healing and Consciousness"},"content":{"rendered":"
\"image_print\"Print Transcript<\/span><\/a><\/div>

Tami Simon:<\/b> Welcome to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>, produced by Sounds True. My name\u2019s Tami Simon. I\u2019m the founder of Sounds True. And I\u2019d love to take a moment to introduce you to the new Sounds True Foundation. The Sounds True Foundation is dedicated to creating a wiser and kinder world by making transformational education widely available. We want everyone to have access to transformational tools such as mindfulness, emotional awareness, and self-compassion, regardless of financial, social, or physical challenges. The Sounds True Foundation is a nonprofit dedicated to providing these transformational tools to communities in need, including at-risk youth, prisoners, veterans, and those in developing countries. If you\u2019d like to learn more or feel inspired to become a supporter, please visit SoundsTrueFoundation.org.<\/span><\/p>\n

You\u2019re listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge<\/span><\/i>. Today, my guest is Dr. Shamini Jain. Shamini Jain is the founder and CEO of the Consciousness and Healing Initiative, a nonprofit collaborative that leads humanity to heal ourselves. Shamini is an Ivy League-trained clinical psychologist and an award-winning research scientist in psychoneuroimmunology and integrative medicine. She\u2019s a sought-after speaker and teacher in mind, body, spirit healing. And with Sounds True, Shamini Jain is releasing a new book, it\u2019s called <\/span>Healing Ourselves: Biofield Science and the Future of Health<\/span><\/i>. As you listen to this conversation, listen with all of you, not just some type of critical analysis, because Shamini Jain brings it all together, the depth of our soul with the possibilities of the future of medicine. Here\u2019s Dr. Shamini Jain.<\/span><\/p>\n

Shamini, you write in your new book that the biofield is the missing link between healing and consciousness. And I thought: that\u2019s a big powerful billboard, the missing link between healing and consciousness. So let\u2019s start there. What\u2019s the biofield and how is it this missing link?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Shamini Jain:<\/b> Tami, thank you so much, and thank you so much for the question. In some ways, we can think of the biofield the way we think about consciousness. When we talk about consciousness, we can talk about all kinds of different facets of consciousness, right? So we have this idea that there\u2019s a big-C Consciousness, for example, which is the all-encompassing consciousness. And in the same way, the biofield is similar. So it\u2019s really a new term for, in some ways, a very ancient concept. And we described the biofield as a singular really as a plural, as fields of energy and information that guide our health. So the reason I say the biofield can be thought of as a big-B Biofield or as a little-b biofield is there are many different types of biofields. We can look at the biofields of cells, the biofields of people, we can even look at the biofields of the earth.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, in the same way that consciousness can be thought of as a big C or a little c, we can talk about consciousness in terms of awareness and attention. But we can also talk about consciousness as something deeper. In Vedic tradition, for example, we often talk about big-C <\/span>Consciousness is really such a nun,<\/span> the totality of who we truly are as pure awareness and pure bliss. In the same way, the biofield is the same. And it links with consciousness. Now, what I\u2019m about to say may not be necessarily agreed upon by all of my scientific colleagues, but when I think about the big-B Biofield, I think about Vedic concepts, and certainly there are others in other indigenous and spiritual traditions. I think about Shakti, which we often describe as the manifest power behind the universe.<\/span><\/p>\n

So big-C Consciousness is limitless awareness that is formless, it has no form, then the big-B Biofield could simply be the energy that brings consciousness into form. So that\u2019s my own personal lofty consideration of the biofield. But when we look at it with our scientific lens, it\u2019s really exciting, because what it\u2019s teaching us is how deeply we\u2019re connected. When we look at the biofields of cells, for example, we start seeing how cells are communicating electromagnetically, and we can measure that. We can even manipulate it, so to speak. And that\u2019s really exciting. It\u2019s paving the way for really great advances in medicine. And then there are the subtle aspects of the biofield too, which have been talked about for millennia, things like <\/span>prana<\/span><\/i>, <\/span>qi<\/span><\/i>, the things that healers are working with, that they say they\u2019ve been working with for millennia as well, in many different traditions.<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s part of the biofield as well. So the biofield\u2014<\/span>you can really think of as this set of interacting and interpenetrating fields of energy and information that guide our health. <\/span>And so when we think about consciousness, you might wonder, well, we have the sense that consciousness drives our biology. We have some sense that\u2019s true from looking at placebo work, work in psychoneuroimmunology. But how does that happen? Is it all just simply brain effects, is it simply caused by my mind, or is this an energetic component that drives some of the biology as well? And this is some of the work that I and other scientists are doing in this area that we call biofield science.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Okay. I\u2019m going to have to bring this down several notches to my everyday self for a moment, and understand maybe this is not the littlest biofield of a cell or the biggest biofield of the whole earth. But you, Shamini, as a person, is it fair to say you have a biofield and I, Tami, have a biofield? Is that fair to say?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>It\u2019s absolutely fair to say that we both have biofields, and in fact, we can sense them, right? We can sense our own biofield and we can sense the biofield of another as well. Can we measure all aspects of our field scientifically? No, we really can\u2019t. We\u2019re just scratching the surface of our understanding on how to measure the biofield. But consider this. We\u2019ve been measuring EEGs and EKGs for many decades now. And they tell us something important about our health. Those are biofield measurements. We\u2019re measuring the electromagnetic readouts of the body. And it tells us about our system health, our body\u2019s health, our brain\u2019s health. So these are biofields. And then we can subtly feel our energy. And that also makes a difference in our health. It\u2019s really the basis for pretty much all forms of holistic medicine, this understanding of the vital life system, which is harder to measure.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Okay. So even leaving measurement aside for a moment, and this may be a really stupid question, but I\u2019m just going to go ahead and ask it: What\u2019s the connection between what people have historically called the aura and now the biofield of Shamini and your aura? What\u2019s the relationship?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>You bet. So, many people would say that they\u2019re one and the same, and that the aura reflects the summation of my biofield. If I think about myself as a system, then if someone was able to see my aura, they would be able to get a sense of my health, where my energy is, and where my energy is moving. Now, of course, as you know in science, that\u2019s really controversial. And yet there are seers from all traditions that claim they can do this, right? And healers that are essentially intuiting into that and working with the fields in that way. So we can look at certain aspects of that quote \u201caura,\u201d right? We can look at biophoton emission from the body, for example. That could be considered part of what healers might be seeing. But the truth is, we still don\u2019t have a really good understanding scientifically of the aura because different traditions talk about it in different ways.<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019ll give you an example. In Jainism, we talk about <\/span>lesya<\/span><\/i>. And lesya is described as what we call the aura in Western tradition. But when you ask a Jain monk or nun who sees lesya, they see the aura. They\u2019ll say it\u2019s really reflective of the emotional state of a person. And the different colors that they see in the aura are really reflecting the emotional state. Now, if you go to a healer, like my teacher, Rev. Rosalyn Bruyere, for example, she sees the aura very differently. She can actually see through the body and into the body and she sees multiple layers. So to the narrow scientific mind, it can be really nerve-racking, because different people see the aura differently. And while some scientists would like to just say none of this really exists, the truth is people have been feeling into things like the aura and using it for healing for many centuries. And our data suggests that those kinds of therapies actually help people.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Okay. Let\u2019s talk about you personally for a moment, in addition to talking about your personal biofield, which I have to say I think is very beautiful, very shiny, and bright. Now I\u2019m just joking with you. But just to talk about you personally, what brought you to biofield science as the focus of your study and research and writing?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>Well, Tami, the truth is it was really sound. It was my experience with sound. I\u2019ve always been a singer and I grew up singing, like most kids singing around the house, enjoying it. And then growing up in an east Indian Jain tradition, we also of course learned mantras and different songs until I started experiencing both through the mantra meditation and my own singing\u2014how powerful sound was, how powerful this vibration was, how I could feel it in my body. And for some reason, I was just deeply curious about it. I really just wondered how did these sounds have their effects on the body? I can feel this vibrationally. But I honestly couldn\u2019t figure out how to study it. And I spent many years learning about sound therapy, learning about it at Columbia, telling my professors back in the nineties that I was going to study sound and music and its effects on healing. Back then, they thought that was weird.<\/span><\/p>\n

Now that\u2019s pretty mainstream, which is great. But it wasn\u2019t until I had my first Reiki session that I thought, \u201cOh, here\u2019s a subtle vibration that I can feel in my body. And I can feel how it\u2019s linked to these changes. These changes in emotion that I\u2019m feeling, the subtle sensations in my body and these thoughts.\u201d And when this healer is working on me, and she was working on me completely in silence\u2014I talk about this in the book, of course, I mean, it was a profound thing. And I thought, \u201cOh, here\u2019s the vibration that I can study. This is what people are talking about when they talk about energy. And this is the subtle aspect of sound that I\u2019m tapping into right now.\u201d So it started with that personal journey of that relationship with sound and then exploring the nature of vibration more deeply for myself and then through these wonderful sessions.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now you write about Reiki as an example of a biofield therapy. I wonder if you can explain Reiki to people who aren\u2019t familiar with it, and also what qualifies a modality as a biofield therapy.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>Great question. So Reiki is one of many biofield therapies, we call them here in the West. And those are therapies that essentially work with the body\u2019s energy field and the person\u2019s energy field to stimulate a healing response. And Reiki is one of them. Reiki itself has translated into universal life energy. So when you talk to a Reiki practitioner, they\u2019ll say things that aren\u2019t really that different from other healing practitioners, because they\u2019ll say, \u201cI\u2019m working with universal life energy to help stimulate healing in another person.\u201d And so what does that mean? First of all, the energy is, if I\u2019m a Reiki healer\u2014and I\u2019m actually trained in Reiki a little. So if I\u2019m doing Reiki healing, the energy is not really coming from me, I\u2019m a conduit. So Reiki practitioners get into, honestly, what I would call a grounded meditative state to allow this biofield, the universal life energy, to flow through them. And they are able to sense the balances and imbalances in a person.<\/span><\/p>\n

By simply being open and grounded, they sense where energy is flowing, where energy isn\u2019t, and then they allow for universal life energy to flow through them, generally out their hands to the person. And so what\u2019s interesting about this is we have so many different kinds of biofield therapies. These types of therapies that work with a subtle energy of a person, therapeutic touch, healing touch, laying on of hands. But they\u2019re integrated in many spiritual traditions as well. Almost all of the spiritual traditions in indigenous cultures have these types of practices. Although they might describe them more spiritually than say, telling you to follow a protocol. Whether they have these kinds of protocols or not, whether they say, \u201cOkay, for pain, you want to do this, for anxiety you want to do this,\u201d some schools do have very specific protocols. Some don\u2019t, they\u2019re really just about holding presence.<\/span><\/p>\n

But the key things that are the same is that the practitioner understands this is not my energy, this is universal energy that\u2019s flowing through me. I am not the healer, really. In fact, I have many friends that don\u2019t like the term <\/span>healer<\/span><\/i>. They prefer healing facilitator or something like that, because they want everyone to understand that we are our own healers. We are doing the healing on ourselves. When we\u2019re engaging in a biofield therapy, it\u2019s just allowing for the energy to move to basically write what we scientists like to call the salutogenic response, the health promoting response that is innate in our body. So this is based on a premise that our bodies and minds and spirit know how to heal ourselves. Sometimes we have stagnation that needs to be addressed in order for us to come back to what we can call our core, our soul, our spirit, and allow for the healing reflex, if you will, to write itself.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Okay, I\u2019m going to have to have a confessional moment, Shamini, both with you and with our listeners for a moment, which is, it was probably eight to 10 years ago, I can\u2019t remember the exact timeline here, where I started working with a qigong energy healer. And when I first went\u2014my wife recommended it\u2014I didn\u2019t really know what to think about it. I thought, I don\u2019t really know. But I noticed I felt better afterwards, and then I went again. And now I\u2019ve been going pretty regularly. It turns out to be probably about twice a month. And when I think of all the different types of help and support I get in my life from a therapist, from a Diamond Approach teacher, I mean, for better or for worse, it takes a small village to keep me sane, functioning, happy, healthy, etcetera.<\/span><\/p>\n

I put the qigong energy healer at the top of the list in terms of\u2014I know how much this helps me. But here\u2019s the thing. I have no ideas, zero idea how it works. I mean, she\u2019s doing things off the body, then she does some kind of shiatsu style massage to integrate it all. And I walk out of there, especially waking up the next morning, and I just feel like I\u2019m back to myself. This is the signature of my being that somehow got lost somewhere in the two weeks of stress and work that I was engaged in without seeing her. But what I want to know from you, what\u2019s going on, how is it working, what\u2019s happening?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>Now, that\u2019s the million dollar question, isn\u2019t it? So I have two lines of explanation for this. One is, let\u2019s put our Western science hats on. The truth, we have no idea. That\u2019s the truth. But here\u2019s what I can tell you. We know that the subtle energy effects affect us, all the way down to ourselves. And I\u2019ll just highlight a couple of amazing studies that are being done right now. As you know, I\u2019ve conducted my own randomized placebo controlled trials, looking at energy healing for things like fatigue in breast cancer survivors and PTSD in active duty military. So we have clinical studies and we can talk about placebo later if we want. Those questions always come up. But for people that are really wondering, is there a <\/span>there<\/span><\/i> there with this energy stuff, I want to highlight some amazing work that\u2019s going on right now at MD Anderson Cancer Center by Dr. Lorenzo Cohen\u2019s group. Dr. Lorenzo Cohen has been the head of the integrative research center at MD Anderson for quite some time. We\u2019re really well funded by the NIH in integrated medicine.<\/span><\/p>\n

He\u2019s published now, he and his group, two studies already looking at external bioenergy. Similar to qigong, like you\u2019re saying, this is a person who is sending energy from their hands to mice. So this is a mouse model of cancer. No people, thereby supposedly no placebo. We could talk about that all day long. And what he\u2019s found in two published studies now is that this emitted bioenergy has been found to shrink tumors in mouse models of cancer. And in the second study, when they replicated that, they didn\u2019t see the tumor shrinkage, but they saw changes, that is, reductions in tumor migration, that is a reduction of metastasis. They looked at cell subsets, they looked at cytokines, and they found these effects all the way down to what we call protein kinase levels. And I detailed some of this, for the nerds listening, in my book, because it\u2019s really fascinating.<\/span><\/p>\n

So we do know that energy, this so-called subtle energy, has effects all the way down to protein kinase levels in cells, even beyond just looking at people. Now, do we understand everything about, are there receptor systems, what about distant healing? There\u2019s a lot to this and I explored multiple explanations is in the book. But let me just take a step back for a moment and say, ancient traditions had their own perspective on how this works. And it\u2019s really tied to what practitioners have said about their process and the process of what\u2019s happening. When you ask a practitioner, \u201cWhat is healing anyway? What is that? Does that mean I\u2019m getting rid of a tumor, I\u2019m getting rid of my pain?\u201d Well, maybe, but it\u2019s actually deeper than that.<\/span><\/p>\n

Healing is basically a restoration of harmony, a harmony within us, and a harmony between us and others, and a harmony between us and our environments. Now that may sound really airy-fairy. But the number one thing that all healing practitioners seem to say, regardless of what tradition they\u2019re practicing, is: I am bringing this person back to their soul nature. I\u2019m bringing them back to their essential self, their higher self. Now, Jains for example, but Jains aren\u2019t the only ones, I\u2019ll just speak for that because that\u2019s the tradition I come from, had a very systematic way of explaining this. And they talked about the <\/span>koshas<\/span><\/i>. And so maybe some of your listeners who study yoga and meditation may be familiar with these ideas of subtle bodies. In this model, the way they described it is we have this physical body. So we\u2019re sitting here talking, I\u2019m moving my mouth, we\u2019re listening with our ears. This is the physical body.<\/span><\/p>\n

But we also have an energy body. We have a subtle, energetic body. There are different names for it. We also have what\u2019s called a <\/span>karman<\/span><\/i> body. And so, if we think about karma being basically habits that go back and forth, so we move our mouths, we move around in the world, we have certain behaviors, these create impressions in the energetic body. We call them <\/span>samskaras<\/span><\/i>, for example, <\/span>vasanas<\/span><\/i>. Okay. So we have these impressions that are formed in our subtle body. When an energy healer is working on us, they\u2019re tapping into those impressions. They\u2019re moving energy in the system. And sometimes those impressions can actually come to light. We may actually become aware of our vasana or our habit pattern. Or, I notice now that this has really lightened up in my field, I\u2019m having a recollection of maybe an unskillful interaction I had with somebody recently. And I have some resolution about that. Now I come to a clearer conscious choice about how I\u2019m going to potentially release that vasana. And as I release that karmic impression in my field, I come closer to my soul nature.<\/span><\/p>\n

So, in this way, when we talk about the biofield, it\u2019s important for us to understand that it\u2019s not just about energy healing. This is something we carry around with us forever. So when we\u2019re practicing meditation, and we\u2019re practicing qigong, we\u2019re practicing yoga, we\u2019re working with our biofields. If you want to call it, you\u2019re cleaning house, we\u2019re moving energy through our system, connecting with the earth, connecting with the elements in the earth so that we can constantly foster vitality and not get stuck in our habitual habit patterns. We just become more clear. And I think that\u2019s what you were describing, Tami, is there\u2019s something about having that done to you but also how you can do it to yourself, right? That it just brings you closer to your own spiritual nature.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Okay. Let me ask what I think is a hard question, which is I\u2019m going to ask you later in our conversation to share remarkable stories of people who have healed through biofield therapy. And there are some remarkable stories in the book. And we\u2019ll talk about that. That\u2019s not the hard question. The hard question is, what about that sincere person who goes and visits some type of biofield therapist? And they say, \u201cI\u2019m really ready to have this thing heal. I want to let go of these karmic patterns or whatever.\u201d And the healer is known to be very talented and has had great results, but this person doesn\u2019t get any results, nothing. In fact, their disease process just continues and, just to say it like it is, they die. And they\u2019re like, \u201cHuh.\u201d And the people all around them have this view of like, \u201cWhy does this work sometimes but it doesn\u2019t work other times, even with sincere people?\u201d What\u2019s your perspective on that?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>It\u2019s such a wonderful question. And what I am about to say would probably be considered controversial, because generally when people think of healing, because we\u2019re steeped in what we call the disease model, we think of healing as being reduction of suffering, obviously, and promotion of life, right? That\u2019s usually the way we think about it. So for some, this will seem like a pat answer, but I\u2019m often asking healing practitioners very same question. And sometimes the answer you get is karma. And also a question about whether or not this person\u2019s best and highest good is actually served in this physical body. This really dives into what people\u2019s beliefs are about death and what happens after death, all of these things. But if healing is a returning to one\u2019s soul nature, and as in many traditions, if the understanding is that the soul is eternal, the soul is immortal, then the question remains, is it best for me to stay in this body or is it best for me to leave?<\/span><\/p>\n

Now, to many, this is going to sound like a huge cop-out. People will throw their hands up and say, \u201cOh great. Well, you\u2019re just going to explain everything through karma.\u201d Oh, it doesn\u2019t work, then it\u2019s karma. If it works, great. And it\u2019s very unsatisfying to most people, in the scientific minds especially. But this is a spiritual perspective. So that\u2019s one perspective that people have. Another perspective, which I think is valuable especially during these times, is that our conscious minds… As you know, Tami, I\u2019m a psychologist, right? So our conscious minds might yearn for healing. We may mentalize it to a certain degree, we may see ourselves well, all of these things. And yet, if we aren\u2019t really in tune with the subconscious patterns, as I mentioned before, things like vasanas and samskaras, if we haven\u2019t really been in tune with some of those, you could say, energy drivers that may be driving our bus, we may not be aware of those subconscious patterns.<\/span><\/p>\n

They can impede our healing progress. That\u2019s my personal view, is that sometimes that is the issue. And so, what happens there is you simply have to trust in that process. You can\u2019t force someone to run through their traumas. You just can\u2019t do that. And yet, if the body system is locked from traumas, and if you\u2019d like to describe it this way, if there\u2019s not enough energy to actually work through, all the way through the traumas and release the vasanas, then it\u2019s harder for that full system to be replenished by the energy. So that can happen. And there are many different practices that address this. Actually quite a few biofield therapies really are focused on addressing trauma, especially in the energy psychology types of therapies, things like TAT [Tapas Acupressure Technique]. And there are others that… AIT [Advanced Integrative Therapy] is another one by Asha Clinton. There\u2019s so many that are really addressing the subconscious level.<\/span><\/p>\n

So on the conscious level, I want to get well. What is happening with my subconscious? Is it on board and online as well? So it\u2019s not a one-size-fits-all approach. It\u2019s not something that\u2019s guaranteed that if you\u2019re going to see a healer, you\u2019re going to be free of disease, and you will cheat death and you\u2019ll have a life of a hundred years or more. That may happen, and it may not. It\u2019s very multifactorial. And let\u2019s just say that the body is a system, right? So as I mentioned, we have an energy body, but we have a physical body too. I could go get energy healing all day long, but if I\u2019m still not eating the right foods, and I\u2019m not eating good foods, and I\u2019m not exercising, and I\u2019m not taking care of my interpersonal health, those things are going to be driving my healing bus as well.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Yes. Now, towards the beginning of your book, <\/span>Healing Ourselves: Biofield Science and the Future of Health<\/span><\/i>, you talk about how seeing the body as a machine is an outdated perspective from your view. How do you see the body if it\u2019s not a machine that\u2019s going to just break down, and the more you use it, eventually… How do you see the body?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>The body is a garden. It\u2019s comprised of elements, it\u2019s comprised of elemental forces. It\u2019s comprised of different types of cells and organ systems that are constantly communicating with each other. And this is not a metaphor, this is actually reality. And it\u2019s not a new idea either. This is not Shamini\u2019s idea of the body. This is how the body has been understood to function in Ayurveda, in Chinese medicine, Tibetan medicine, and all these indigenous systems of healing. My body is not only just Shamini\u2019s body, but it actually interacts with my environment, the earth, the water around me, the air, the food I eat, the people that I\u2019m connected with. I\u2019m being fed and I\u2019m feeding all of these things.<\/span><\/p>\n

So in this way, we can almost have the sense of the body as being more porous than we think, having influence from multiple inputs, both our environment and our DNA, right? And we understand this to be true. That\u2019s how the whole field of epigenetics was finally born, because we finally realized it\u2019s not an either\/or, it\u2019s both\/and, it\u2019s genes and the environment, right? So the body is really this interactive cooperative system.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>Okay. Now, I have another personal question for you. Here you are, you have a Vedic spiritual heritage. You mentioned you\u2019re a psychologist, you\u2019re a research scientist. How do you bring all of these different perspectives together inside? You mentioned you\u2019re studying with Rev. Rosalyn Bruyere, who\u2019s an energy healing specialist. How do you bring all of this together inside yourself without collapsing under strange contradictions and things?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>Well, you just described my life journey really. It\u2019s what drives me, because I think growing up as a woman of east Indian heritage in America, in the South, and back then in the eighties, really seeing what seemed like this juxtaposition of so-called opposites, all my friends were Baptist Christian, their views on life, death, God are very different from mine. And then I went to school, and what? Nobody talked about consciousness and nobody talked about the biofield or anything like that. So it did seem like there were all these different pieces that were fragmented. And I do think that for many years, part of my life\u2019s journey was to try to make those connections, to say, \u201cI don\u2019t think that these things are as separate as we think they are.\u201d I think that when people are talking about God and other people are talking about Brahman, they may be more similar than different.<\/span><\/p>\n

And so that\u2019s been the basis of many beautiful conversations I\u2019ve had with my Baptist Christian friends, for example. So there is always a searching to integrate those things. But ultimately, this is beyond the mental, right Tami? Personally, what\u2019s important is that I live the practice. And so, for me personally, that\u2019s about coming back into the body. It\u2019s about feeling my energy, and it\u2019s about what the ancient Tibetans have told us for millennia, uniting the mental and the vital, because these are both kits, right? These are pieces. So this is where we come back to the idea that the biofield is the missing link between consciousness and healing. We often mentalize consciousness. And if you think about it, we\u2019ve mentalized most of meditation as well. But when we meditate, we\u2019re not only practicing focused awareness; in many traditions, we\u2019re practicing focused awareness of the body. And there\u2019s a recognition of the subtle energy flow that is constantly happening.<\/span><\/p>\n

So when we come back to our practice, then we can really unify. We realize that things aren\u2019t separate because we\u2019re not separate. You and I are not separate, right? When we come back to being able to tap into our biofield and we can feel ourselves, we can also feel others. And so that\u2019s the key really, is our own personal integration first and foremost. And then all of these divisions, all of these separatism ideas that are being forced down our throats right now, whether it\u2019s politically or socially, we begin to see that those are just fallacies, because all the traditions are really saying the same thing. Ultimately, we\u2019re all part of one indivisible consciousness. We\u2019re not separate from our environments. We\u2019re not separate from each other. That\u2019s the most beautiful thing I think that biofield science is teaching us, is really, I don\u2019t end, I don\u2019t end at my skin.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now, if someone says, \u201cWhat? I could tap into my own biofield as part of my meditation practice.\u201d I have no idea what that means. I know what it means to feel being in my body and track sensations. And that\u2019s a good place to start. I can feel the heaviness in my body. I can even feel tingling in my body. But what does it mean to attune to our biofield? What\u2019s that like for you?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>Well, it\u2019s really just practicing focused attention on subtle awareness in the body. That\u2019s my experience. And so for that, you don\u2019t have to try, you don\u2019t have to create images, you don\u2019t have to wish, but you\u2019re simply noticing, and you can start with the breath. So just noticing the inflow and outflow of my breath, and when it touches the body, and what sensations I feel when the breath touches the body. From there, I might choose to direct my breath to a certain part of my body. I might notice areas where I feel flow in the body, and I might notice areas where it feels a little stuck and I can direct my prana, my energy to any place I want. But the first key is just to notice, what if the breath is in the body, and allow ourselves to just notice the flow of sensation.<\/span><\/p>\n

And there\u2019s so many practices that do this. The kasina tradition is very much rooted in this practice as you know. So we start with <\/span>anapana<\/span><\/i>, right? And that\u2019s just noticing the breath flow in and out of the nose to begin with. And we develop that focused concentration. And then as we develop that focused concentration, we can apply it to the body. And in some ways, the more secular traditions in the West have tried to do this as well. And BSR, for example, in body scan, I would call that a biofield awareness practice because we\u2019re really tapping into subtle sensation in the body. And that\u2019s the first step. Now what\u2019s cool about this is when we begin to do that. And we begin to really unite with the breath and the body. Then we\u2019ll also begin to notice what happens when I have an emotion. And I might notice what my body\u2019s doing and where my energy is during my emotion.<\/span><\/p>\n

I always laugh. If you watch a kid, for example, I certainly noticed this with my kids, but I\u2019ve seen it with other kids as well. When they get angry, oftentimes they\u2019ll actually put their hands near their crotch, right? That\u2019s the second chakra. It\u2019s very interesting, actually, that you can watch the body\u2019s intelligence in this way when you start uniting back with body awareness to see what the energy is actually doing. And once we bring our awareness to that energy, then we\u2019re no longer slaves to an automatic response in the body. That\u2019s where we begin to liberate ourselves, right? That\u2019s where healing begins to take place, because we\u2019re just deepening our subtle awareness.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Now I asked you the hard question of what about when biofield therapy doesn\u2019t work. Now, I want to ask you the other side, if you could share with us a story of biofield therapy working that really surprised you and stunned you.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>Yes, absolutely. I mean, the one that really comes to mind is the story of some of my friends and their daughter. And I mentioned this in the beginning of the book. And what\u2019s so interesting about this, Tami, is when I met this couple, they had no idea what I did. They had no idea that I studied energy, that I studied healing. I just happened to meet them at the dinner party. And they just, for some reason, felt compelled to tell me about this tremendously incredible story of their daughter, Myra. And Myra was a beautiful young child like many children running around, a second child. And around 2:00 or so, she started having some funky symptoms. And it really just started with throwing up. But lots of times kids throw up, it just happens.<\/span><\/p>\n

So I said, \u201cOh, she has a bug,\u201d and this and that. She kept throwing up and they got worried. So they took her to the doctor, of course, and the doctors did some scans and everything. And they said, and you can imagine how shocked my friends were when they found this out, \u201cWe\u2019re so sorry, but your daughter has a brain tumor.\u201d And it was completely shocking. I mean, nothing that they had expected. So they did what any responsible parents would do. They said, \u201cWhat\u2019s the best medicine? What\u2019s the best thing that we can do?\u201d They said, \u201cWell, we think that we need to do radiation right away.\u201d So they did that and that seemed to help. But unfortunately, after some time the tumors came back, and this time they came back in areas that were very difficult to operate.<\/span><\/p>\n

They said, \u201cWe can\u2019t operate in this place, she won\u2019t survive. And we\u2019re so sorry, but there\u2019s really nothing else we can do.\u201d And this is what often happens when people are searching for healing. It doesn\u2019t always happen this way. But sometimes we search for these so-called alternatives when conventional medicine isn\u2019t providing answers for us, right? And this was the case here. So they left no stone unturned. They began to do their own readings, their own explorations. What can we do nutritionally? What can we do for her environment? What are the different things that we could do to help potentially heal her? And they had a friend that came to them and said, \u201cI know this is going to sound absolutely crazy, but I know an energy healer in Tel Aviv, and she has a tremendous reputation.\u201d I talk a little bit more deeply about the story in the book and encourage people to read the whole thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

But essentially he said, \u201cIf you\u2019re open to this, I think you should try it. It certainly won\u2019t hurt.\u201d And by the way, the data corroborates that, we don\u2019t really see ill effects of these types of entities healing with practitioners. So they decided to give it a try. And they called this energy healer who was in Israel, right? So she\u2019s in Israel, they\u2019re in California. They have no idea how this could possibly work. They don\u2019t have any experience with this whatsoever, but they have faith and they want their daughter to get well. So she guides them and tells them these are the things that you need to do at home to support her, keep a healthy environment, make sure there\u2019s not a lot of arguing. And what I\u2019m going to do, I cannot guarantee you anything. What I\u2019m going to do is work with Myra\u2019s higher self. And if Myra\u2019s higher self decides that she wants to live and she wants this tumor to go away, then it will happen. My job is just to facilitate the conditions to allow that to happen if this is what she chooses.<\/span><\/p>\n

So the healer was very clear. Again, I\u2019m not doing the healing. I\u2019m not the so-called miracle worker. I\u2019m not sending my energy. I\u2019m facilitating an opening for her soul self to come into the driver\u2019s seat. And so she worked with her for several months. They noticed that their daughter seemed to be feeling better, fewer symptoms. So they were pleased that she seemed to have more comfort, right? They had no idea though, whether the tumor was gone or anything like that, there were really no expectations. But a few months later, they went for their checkup and the doctors were shocked because the tumor was completely gone.<\/span><\/p>\n

And they said, we have no explanations for how this could happen. Absolutely none. And they told their doctors, they said, \u201cWell, she\u2019s been seeing this energy healer, and she\u2019s been guiding us on home environments and other things, as well as facilitating this healing work with Myra. But we have no idea how it works. And the doctor said, \u201cWe don\u2019t either, and we\u2019re not averse to believing in miracles. And this certainly seems like a miracle.\u201d So, this is the question, is it a miracle? Well, sure, life is a miracle, but why is it that we have these types of stories? And now we have data showing, for example, that a bioenergy healer can shrink a tumor in a mouse model of cancer. Is that a miracle or is it something that we just haven\u2019t completely explored scientifically, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

So these things seem absolutely unbelievable because we\u2019ve been taught that our spirit is separate from our body and that it really perhaps plays no fundamental role in our healing. I mean, that\u2019s the truth. That\u2019s how we have been schooled in our world to think. We have a spirit, we have a body, the connection between them isn\u2019t that important. And that\u2019s all very nice. Spirit is for church and for temple and these kinds of things, and the body is for medicine. And yet these kinds of data with spiritual healing, energy healing, suggest that actually the connection of the spirit with the body is absolutely fundamental to our health and well-being.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> So, I\u2019m listening to this conversation as interested, curious person who wants to learn more. But for a moment, I want to represent that person who has some kind of terrible diagnosis. And they hear a story like the story you just described, and a lot of their hope starts to rise. But they listened carefully to our conversation to this point and they\u2019re like, \u201cAre there subconscious blocks that are keeping me from healing that I don\u2019t know about? How could I clear those blocks?\u201d And I\u2019m curious to know, from your deep immersion in this field, what would you suggest to someone who\u2019s in that situation, listening to our conversation?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ:<\/b> Thank you for that question. So I have synthesized the key fundamental healing elements that I think are important for all of us, whether we have a life-threatening diagnosis or whether we\u2019re just wanting to maintain our wellness. And I summarize them in the third part of the book, which is called \u201cThe Healing Keys.\u201d And these may seem, at first glance when you look at them, \u201cOh, that\u2019s nice. That\u2019s cute.\u201d We may not actually give credence to how strong these effects can be if we follow them. But I will say, I do highlight some of the data supporting why I suggest following these healing keys. When we engage in these practices, we\u2019re really nodding with our energy and spinning off any of these subconscious blocks that we might have.<\/span><\/p>\n

So these keys include grounding for health, that is literally connecting ourselves with the earth, and there are many ways to do that, we can talk about that. Engaging in our creativity, fostering on healing intention and volition, which means not just thinking ourselves well, but really again, uniting our vital force, our energy with our intention for powerful healing. There\u2019s a process for that, which I go over and give some exercises, even in the audiobook for. And then opening to connection both with our loved ones and with spirit. And then the final piece is really surrender. And that is often the hardest piece, right? Because we want to be well. We\u2019ve want things. We have all of these desires. And the paradox of course is that we want to recognize our desires, we want to honor them, we want to hold them, and then we want to release them.<\/span><\/p>\n

So there\u2019s this whole process that we go through, literally moment to moment, every day, to help write our healing reflex. And the more that we do that, the more that we feel fundamentally connected in our bodies with the earth. The more we feel, the joy of creativity and energy flowing through our body, through creativity. We harness our energy into manifested intention with energy behind it. We open our hearts for support, both spiritual and physical, tangible support here in the real world, and then we release the outcome. When we engage in that practice regularly, we\u2019ll notice anything that\u2019s been blocking our path and our healing process will begin to lift itself. And it becomes very effortless.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Why do you describe surrender as a healing key?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>Well, here\u2019s the thing. We\u2019re embodied beings, right? We have what we call an ego. It\u2019s really the conditioned mind, right? So we have our lives that have been formed by who we were raised with, how we were brought up, our culture, our country, our language. That\u2019s all beautiful, but essentially we\u2019re just a bag of conditioned responses, right? So that\u2019s what we might call the little seat consciousness in a way, right? So I\u2019m Shamini. I\u2019m moving the world. I do this. I wrote a book, yadda yadda yadda. That\u2019s a little seat consciousness Shamini. If I stay in little seat consciousness Shamini all the time, then I can\u2019t expand my biofield to incorporate other information and energy that might actually fill my well beyond my conditioned mind and my conditioned self.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

So when I engage in the process of surrender, and there are many ways to do this, in the Bhakti tradition, it\u2019s done through just essentially love and reverence, right? So we open to whatever that is, whether it\u2019s the earth, whether it\u2019s the universe, whether it\u2019s just our existential selves, our higher self, an angel, whatever it is\u2014something that is beyond our conditioned mind. Then we begin to release all of that conditioning and allow for a larger energy to help guide our life. And that is really important because without it, we stay stuck in the mental a lot of times. And we stay stuck in the mental. We simply just don\u2019t have as much power as we need for healing. We also don\u2019t have the opportunity to touch into the piece of oneness. And there\u2019s something so healing about touching into the piece of our unencumbered selves, right Tami? So just touching into that place, that timeless awareness, even a fraction of it. Maybe most of us can\u2019t attain a<\/span> samadhi<\/span><\/i> state in a snap of a finger. I would say that would be most of us, right? And yet when we engage in a practice, we begin to tap even more and more into those larger seat consciousness spaces that are beyond our conditioned mind.<\/span><\/p>\n

And that\u2019s what the process of surrender does. So we release our habit patterns, we release our conditioning, and we release habits that don\u2019t serve us. And when we release habits that don\u2019t serve us, greater space is there for healing.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> It\u2019s a beautiful answer. Now there\u2019s one other big topic I want to talk to you about. And this is the second time, Shamini, you and I have had a conversation like this, and the first time it came up. And I was unfamiliar with your work. And it really took me a while to understand\u2014what is Shamini saying? I\u2019ve never thought about it this way. And it has to do with the placebo and the placebo effect. And the first time we talked about it, you were defending the power of the placebo effect. And that even if it\u2019s the placebo effect, this is good, healing is happening. But I had this mindset at the time, like, \u201cNo, placebo just mean we\u2019re being fooled. That\u2019s terrible. That\u2019s stupid. I don\u2019t want to be the kind of person who falls for the placebo effect.\u201d So here we go, help our listeners understand how you see and understand the placebo effect.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>So here\u2019s the truth about placebo. Placebo equals what I call HEAL: holistic elements that activate life force. Now, again, some scientists don\u2019t like the term life force. You can say elements that activate our healing response. Why do I say that? I outline all this, as you know, Tami, in the book. Here\u2019s some of what we know about placebo. You don\u2019t have to be duped to get well with a placebo. There are studies being done by my colleagues at Harvard University right now that are called open-label placebo studies. They\u2019re actually giving patients with chronic pain placebos. They\u2019re telling them, \u201cThis is a placebo. I am giving you a placebo pill.\u201d And placebo has been shown to have beneficial healing effects. Guess what? They get better. So they\u2019re being told they\u2019re getting a placebo and they get better. So the idea that we have to be tricked at all, that\u2019s just false. We actually don\u2019t.<\/span><\/p>\n

So what is placebo? When we break down placebo, there are many different elements, both conscious and what we might call unconscious, right? So these are things like expectation. Mentally, does my mindset think that I\u2019m going to have a positive healing response? This is my conscious mind, huge driver of effects, right? But there\u2019s also something called conditioning, which straddles the conscious and the subconscious, which is\u2014I\u2019m going to lay on a massage table, what has my body and mind experienced before when I\u2019ve received massage? Did it relax? If so, my body mind is probably going to relax the minute I get on the table because I\u2019m conditioned for that response, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

So this is all very behavioral and involves the body and the mind. But there\u2019s more than that, there\u2019s relationship. We know that powerful things happen when we feel trust and connection with our health-care providers, whether that\u2019s a healer or a doctor. And there are many studies that have looked at the differences of improved immunity, even responses to the common cold, based on how connected we felt our practitioners are with us and how connected we feel. So that\u2019s a powerful driver of so-called placebo effects. And then meaning and ritual, which of course has been part of indigenous medicine for whatever. What does this mean to me? There\u2019s so much research on that, but what\u2019s interesting is these affect expectation, conditioning, ritual relationship. They occur in every single healing encounter. That\u2019s why we see placebo effects in surgery, we see placebo effects with drugs, we see placebo effects in acupuncture.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Right. So I have to interrupt you on this one, because I wrote this down. Placebo effects are significant in surgery. You write about this in your book, <\/span>Healing Ourselves<\/span><\/i>. And I was like, \u201cI don\u2019t understand this.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>This is based on not just one study but what we call systematic reviews, which is mostly what I cover in the book. I don\u2019t cover just one-off studies, mostly. They\u2019re all what we call systematic reviews, compiling the data across many different randomized controlled trials. And so these, in the case of placebo surgery, have been done where we\u2019ve looked at what happens if people are told they get surgery. They may even get anesthesia and they may get an incision on the body, but they don\u2019t actually get the surgery. And we see that they get better. We see that their functional outcomes, in many cases, are the same across different types of surgery. So it\u2019s really amazing, because again it turns the whole thing on its head. And science, I\u2019m sorry, but we have had this all wrong because we\u2019ve been trying to control for the placebo effect like it\u2019s a bad thing.<\/span><\/p>\n

The placebo effect is our natural healing response. And so when we look at these studies and surgery, or even the studies, for example, with depression and antidepressants, where we\u2019re finding that for mild to moderate symptoms of depression, the drugs account for about 25 percent of the response, and other effects, including placebo and natural history account for 75 percent. What does that mean? Well, instead of saying antidepressants don\u2019t work, we could just say, \u201cWow, we work.\u201d We actually work when we believe that our depression can get better, when we actually set our mind-body system to receive healing and move past what we call a negative steady state. As I\u2019ve been in a steady state of depression\u2014I\u2019m nerding out a little and calling this a steady state, right? This is just a place that I\u2019ve been in.<\/span><\/p>\n

And we are all coming out of pandemic, coming in and out of pandemic, I should say, right? So we\u2019ve been in these really funky steady states. How do we pop ourselves out of it? Well, the placebo research is telling us that we have tremendous power to pop ourselves out of it ourselves. So how do we do that? Again, we set our expectations, we create our healing rituals, we understand the meaning and context behind, what does my illness mean to me? What does it mean for me to get well? And then we unite our mental and our vital forces to write our healing responses. And so this is why this is just fundamental. So instead of trying to get rid of these things in our scientific studies, we should be actually looking at them as what we call both\/and effects, not either\/or effects.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s never been about drugs or acupuncture versus the placebo. It\u2019s the wrong question. The question is really, what do these additional healing practices do to write my innate healing response? I am my best healer. Everything else that I seek outside of myself is just to augment that healing response that exists in me. It\u2019s a fundamental right. It\u2019s part of my soul nature. So once we start recognizing that our soul nature is to be in harmony, and that\u2019s our birthright, we\u2019re embodied beings that have this birthright to be in our true soul nature, to experience bliss, to experience harmony and contentment, then the world looks very different, because now we\u2019re in power. We\u2019re not out of power.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Okay. I\u2019ve got to circle back around on the surgery thing for a moment, because I want to understand more what the conditions were that people went into surgery for, that they didn\u2019t have surgery but they got better anyway.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>So in these cases, what happened was they were part of a study and they were told, \u201cYou\u2019re going to be part of the study, and you may be randomized to one group or another group.\u201d One of the groups is going to get the actual surgery. Let\u2019s just call it bariatric surgery, for example. Surgeries that are done to shrink the stomach essentially, right?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Okay.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>So we\u2019ll take that example. That\u2019s just one of the examples. So you may get this actual bariatric surgery. You may be randomized to the group that gets the actual surgery, or you may be randomized to a group that gets the placebo surgery. So they\u2019re told this at the outset, and they don\u2019t know what group they\u2019re in, okay? So then essentially, they\u2019re all given the same treatment, except that one is given the surgery and one isn\u2019t. So they come into the hospital, they sign the forms, they sign their informed consent saying that they\u2019re going to be in one group or the other, they don\u2019t know which, and then are told after the study is done. They get anesthesia. They\u2019re told they\u2019re going into surgery, all of them regardless of which group they\u2019re in, the real surgery or the placebo surgery. They may wake up and see an incision. And then they\u2019re followed over time. How are you doing? How are your outcomes? How\u2019s your quality of life? All these kinds of things, depending on what kind of surgery it is.<\/span><\/p>\n

And then they respond. Then we look at the data to see, is there a difference between the people who actually got surgery and the people who didn\u2019t get surgery but thought they got surgery? And that\u2019s how we can tease out placebo effects. Now, of course, in my energy healing study, I did it quite differently. I was more nuanced. I even asked questions about how connected they felt with their practitioner and how much they felt like treatments were helping them. There are many different ways you can look at these placebo effects. But yes, even in surgery. And this is so fascinating, Tami, because most surgery studies have not been asked to go through what we call placebo control designs. And those are really designed more for things like drug studies. Most surgery studies don\u2019t have placebo arms. But yet when we look at those that do, we start scratching our heads and wondering, is surgery really the only way to address this particular clinical issue or could there be other ways to address the issue?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Okay. Let\u2019s just pretend for a moment, Shamini, that I make you the god of research and I give you some magic wand. Then you get to use your magic wand and you say, \u201cThese are the most important research studies we need to do in the next decade in relationship to biofield science.\u201d How would you use your magic wand?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>Thank you, Tami. And I\u2019m going to see this magic wand as a reality wand, because this just has to happen.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS: <\/b>That\u2019s who you are.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>This is going to have to happen. So the first is we do need more clinical studies on biofield therapies. We know that many different hospitals are incorporating things like Reiki, healing touch, therapeutic touch. We know that there\u2019s at least 70,000 healing practitioners just in the US alone providing services. Do we really have enough data to understand how these things are helping, how long they\u2019re helping, for which patients, is Reiki better than healing touch? All of these things. We need to invest in what we call clinical effectiveness research with these therapies. Because one thing that we do know is that when we look at what we call the benefits-to-harms ratio, that is, how much does this help versus hurt, that ratio is very high. That\u2019s what we base our clinical decision-making on. Does it help people feel better, does it impact their physiology in a positive way, and is it risky?<\/span><\/p>\n

So the indications from the limited data, we have about 400 clinical studies in biotherapies right now, only 125 randomized control trials. And that\u2019s across the board for all kinds of healing therapies. There\u2019s a lot to still explore with this. So we want to know how does it help and for whom. As a clinician, for me, that\u2019s number one. We have a mental health crisis, we have a chronic health crisis, and we have tools that can help. We need to deploy them and we need to understand them. So clinical for me is first. The other really key thing, I think, that will really help us in mitigating this chronic health crisis is to understand and visualize the biofield a little more strongly.<\/span><\/p>\n

So here we\u2019re talking about investing in developing technology that really helps us measure certain aspects of this so-called aura, right? The biofield outside of the body. Could it be that I can measure reliably magnetic fluctuations outside of the body? By the way, there are people at MIT that are doing this work. And can it tell me something about the state of my health? Can emitted biophotons from my fingers or my heart tell me something about the state of my health as a system? There are people in the Netherlands doing this work. We need to bring all of these people together that are measuring different aspects of the biofield and see if there is a sensible way that we can measure biofield health and potentially detect physical disease before it manifests in the physical body.<\/span><\/p>\n

So based on everything that energy healers, acupuncturist, Chinese medicine practitioners, Ayurvedic practitioners say, we can see the imbalance in the biofield before it lodges in the physical system, if this is true. And we can develop robust ways of measuring those fluctuations. We could detect disease before it starts. And what this means is, again, we\u2019re empowered. Now we have even more fun ways to sense our own biofields and write our healing reflexes so that we don\u2019t have diabetes, we don\u2019t have cardiovascular disease. We can figure out when we\u2019re moving towards a place of massive anxiety before it happens, and then we can guide our self-practice.<\/span><\/p>\n

So these are some of the ways that we need to invest in research. And so, what that means is, we need to really bring different scientists together, because this isn\u2019t just neuroscience, this is bioelectromagnetics, this is physics, this is biology. And this is where the real magic happens. These are how advances in science are made, when we bring together the most brilliant hearts and minds. I should add with healing practitioners so that we can really crack this code, if you will, of the biofield, because it\u2019s been hidden for way too long.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> You are pointing to the future right here. Okay, Shamini. In closing, towards the end of the book, you write, \u201cFor myself, I now believe that the path of healing and the path of spiritual liberation are one and the same.\u201d Powerful statement. I wonder if we can end on that note. What brought you to believe that the path of healing and the path of spiritual liberation are one and the same?<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>It\u2019s really a unification with our soul nature. That\u2019s really what healing is. Healing is a return back to our soul nature. And that is what spiritual liberation is all about. We don\u2019t have to conceptualize it as leaving the body, staying in the body, going to heaven. However we conceptualize that, essentially we\u2019re coming back to our true nature. And there\u2019s no real difference between the path of healing and path of spiritual liberation if we see it in that light. And what\u2019s so beautiful about that is it means that there\u2019s so many practices to lead us there, to lead us on our healing journey. So whether we engage in centering prayer, meditation, yoga, healing touch, they\u2019re all practices that are leading us back to ourselves, understanding our fundamental interconnection as human beings with each other and with this planet. And that\u2019s honestly what we\u2019re being called to do, to really recognize and liberate ourselves as human beings, understanding our vast capacities for human healing.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> I\u2019ve been speaking with Shamini Jain. She is the author of the gorgeous new book, <\/span>Healing Ourselves: Biofield Science and the Future of Health<\/span><\/i>. Wow, so articulate, so helpful, so visionary. Thank you very much.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

SJ: <\/b>Thank you, Tami. It\u2019s my honor.<\/span><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

TS:<\/b> Thank you for listening to <\/span>Insights at the Edge <\/span><\/i>. You can read a full transcript of today\u2019s interview at SoundsTrue.com\/podcast. And if you\u2019re interested, hit the subscribe button in your Podcast app. And also if you feel inspired, head to iTunes and leave <\/span>Insights at the Edge <\/span><\/i>a<\/span> review. I love getting your feedback, being in connection with you, and learning how we can continue to evolve and improve our program. Working together, I believe we can create a kinder and wiser world. SoundsTrue.com: waking up the world.<\/span><\/p>\n

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