The Art of Empathy, Part 2

    —
November 12, 2013

The Art of Empathy, Part 2

Karla McLaren — November 12, 2013

Tami Simon speaks with Karla McLaren, an award-winning author, social science and empathy researcher, and educator. With Sounds True, Karla has created the book and audio series The Language of Emotions: What Your Feelings Are Trying to Tell You, as well as the new book and audio series The Art of Empathy: A Complete Guide to Life’s Most Essential Skill. In the second half of this two-part interview, Tami speaks with Karla about two unusual skills she teaches called “conscious complaining” and “ethical empathic gossip”; the concept that there is no such thing as a positive or negative emotion; and how a feeling of hatred can be an important key to working with the shadow part of our psyche. (66 minutes)

Karla McLaren, M.Ed., is an award-winning author, social science researcher, and empathy innovator. She is CEO of Emotion Dynamics, developer of Dynamic Emotional Integration®, and creator of EmpathyAcademy.org. Karla is the author of Embracing Anxiety, The Dynamic Emotional Integration Workbook, The Art of Empathy, The Power of Emotions at Work, and the multimedia online course Emotional Flow: Becoming Fluent in the Language of Emotions. For more, visit karlamclaren.com.

Author photo © Michael Leras

900 Episodes and Counting…

Subscribe to Insights at the Edge to hear all of Tami’s interviews (transcripts available too!), featuring Eckhart Tolle, Caroline Myss, Tara Brach, Jack Kornfield, Adyashanti, and many more.

Meet Your Host: Tami Simon

Each week on Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon interviews leading voices in the Mind/Body/Spirit space about a vast spectrum of fascinating ideas. Since 2009, Tami and her guests have been exploring the edge of understanding, nearly 1,000 episodes on the honest work of change, including spiritual discovery, awakening, intuition, purpose, trauma, and grief.

Photo © Jason Elias

Also By Author

The Power of Emotions at Work

Karla McLaren is an award-winning author, social science researcher, and renowned expert in emotions and empathy. Her work focuses on her grand unified theory of emotions, which reconsiders how we think of “negative” emotions and opens new pathways into self-awareness, communication, and empathy. With Sounds True, Karla is the author of the landmark book The Language of Emotions, a book on The Art of Empathy, and a new book called The Power of Emotions at Work: Accessing the Vital Intelligence in Your Workplace. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon speaks with Karla about why the full range of emotions is necessary for us to bring forth our best thinking. They discuss the “toxic positivity bias” that has become the norm in the contemporary workplace, how this leads to widespread suffering and dysfunction, and how we can achieve an “emotionally well-regulated” workplace that works for all of us.

Karla McLaren:Making Friends with Anxiety … and All ...

Karla McLaren is an award-winning author, social science researcher, and empathy pioneer. Her work focuses on a “grand unified theory of emotions,” in which she moves us beyond looking at some emotions as negative and some as positive, and instead helps people see the genius that lives inside every single emotion. In this podcast, Tami Simon speaks with Karla about managing the multiple emotions that many of us are experiencing as we navigate both a pandemic and a time of societal transformation. Tami and Karla also discuss the importance of creating a community that shares an “emotional vocabulary,” the four keys to unlocking the wisdom of our emotions, and much more.

The gifts of ALL emotions—including depression

Karla McLaren is an award-winning author, social science researcher, and educator whose empathic approach to emotions informs her studies of sociology, anthropology, neurology, and cognitive psychology. With Sounds True, Karla has most recently contributed to the anthology Darkness Before Dawn: Redefining the Journey Through Depression. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Karla and Tami Simon discuss depression as an essential human emotion—one that may carry important messages about what’s no longer working for you. They also talk about the questions you can ask of your emotions to determine their cause and the course of action they are asking you to take. Finally, Tami and Karla speak on the necessity of understanding and embracing the full range of human emotions—even those you deem unpleasant—in order to live a fuller, healthier life. (58 minutes)

You Might Also Enjoy

Tara Brach: Choosing to Love in Perilous Times


What if the bravest thing you can do right now is refusing to close your heart?

This week, Tami Simon speaks with Tara Brach—beloved meditation teacher, clinical psychologist, and bestselling author of Radical Acceptance and Trusting the Gold—about her new inner workbook with Sounds True, The Courageous Heart: Choosing to Love in Perilous Times. At a moment when so many people feel pulled between despair and action, Tara offers a grounded path through both.

Join Tami and Tara to explore:

  • How to stay spiritually engaged—without burning out or spiritually bypassing the reality of suffering
  • The bodhisattva path as a living practice: what it means to be an “awakening being” in ordinary, everyday life
  • Why grief is often covered over by anger—and how moving through grief unlocks the capacity for love and action
  • The RAIN practice (Recognize, Allow, Investigate, Nurture) for working with armoring, fear, and excruciating pain in the heart
  • The shift from head space to heart space—and a brief guided meditation to experience it directly
  • How aspiration becomes the fuel for the spiritual path—and why Tara “sandwiches” her day with it
  • The practice of seeing basic goodness in others—including stories of Father Gregory Boyle and John Lewis that illuminate how this changes everything
  • What to do when you feel alone, disconnected, and uncertain where to start

Whether you’re overwhelmed by current events or searching for a more engaged and openhearted way to meet this moment, Tara Brach offers both the courage and the practical tools to begin.

Listen now and choose to love. →

This conversation offers genuine transmission—not just concepts about awakening, but the palpable presence of realized teachers exploring the growing edge of spiritual understanding together. Originally aired on Sounds True One.

Enter for a chance to win the Monthly Magic Subscription Journey. It includes 12 months of tea, a loose leaf starter kit, monthly virtual classes, and free shipping worth $673. Learn more at ClubMagicHour.com/TRUE (no purchase required). Get 20% off your first order of Magic Hour tea at ClubMagicHour.com with the code TRUE.

Just One Question | Thích Nhất Hạnh: What Is the ...


What if the root cause of every social problem — starvation, ecological destruction, violence — wasn’t a broken system or a corrupt institution, but a collective state of unawareness? And what if the most powerful act of social change available to you today happened in your own mind?

That’s the territory Tami Simon explores in this remarkable exchange with Thich Nhat Hanh, the Vietnamese Zen master who founded Plum Village, pioneered engaged Buddhism, and became one of the most influential spiritual teachers of the twentieth century. Recorded more than two decades ago beneath a willow tree, this conversation feels astonishingly present.

Thích Nhất Hạnh’s answer to Tami’s question doesn’t point outward to policy or protest — it points inward, then ripples out. Individual awakening, he says, is collective awakening. Your practice is social action. Your light is contagious.

What you’ll hear in this exchange:

  • Why individual mindfulness practice is inseparable from social transformation
  • How collective enlightenment spreads — and how it already has, in ways we don’t always recognize
  • The role artists, teachers, economists, and politicians all play in the work of awakening
  • How to stay rooted in hope — and action — without being swallowed by despair

This is a short clip, but it carries the full weight of a lifetime of practice and teaching. It may change how you think about what you’re doing every time you sit down to meditate.

This clip is taken from the full Insights at the Edge conversation with Thích Nhất Hạnh. Find the complete interview in this feed or at soundstrue.com.

This episode is sponsored by Omega Institute, a global gathering hub for lifelong learning and spiritual exploration. Omega offers weekend workshops, special events, rest and rejuvenation retreats, professional training, online learning, and more. Discover what calls to you at eomega.org/true.

nico and devon hase: Buddhist Volcanoes In Love


What if everything you believed about a healthy relationship—the harmony, the peace, the perfectly matched wheels—was the very thing getting in the way?

This week, Tami Simon speaks with nico and devon hase—married Buddhist teachers, longtime meditation practitioners, and co-authors of the new Sounds True book This Messy, Gorgeous Love: A Buddhist Guide to Lasting Partnership—about what it actually takes to build a partnership that transforms rather than just endures.

Join Tami, nico, and devon to explore:

  • Why relationships are inherently rough—and why accepting that is the first act of real intimacy
  • The three conflict styles (volcanoes, diplomats, and dodgers) and how to work skillfully with your own
  • The tightrope principle: why lasting partnership means always finding your balance, never holding it
  • The daily check-in practice nico and devon discovered during three years of solitary retreat—and why it’s deceptively powerful
  • How death contemplation can dissolve petty resentments and bring fierce clarity to what actually matters
  • The “third space” in relationship: listening to the partnership itself as its own living being
  • Body shame, shifting desire, and sexuality as an awakening path—from devon’s own retreat discoveries
  • Why bodhichitta—the awakened heart of service—might be the most honest metric for whether a relationship is worth tending

Whether you’re navigating a decades-long partnership or wondering if intimacy and spiritual depth can coexist at all, nico and devon offer both radical honesty and genuine hope.

Listen now →

This conversation offers genuine transmission—not just concepts about awakening, but the palpable presence of realized teachers exploring the growing edge of spiritual understanding together. Originally aired on Sounds True One.

This episode is sponsored by Omega Institute, a global gathering hub for lifelong learning and spiritual exploration. Located in upstate New York’s beautiful Hudson Valley, Omega offers weekend workshops, special events, rest and rejuvenation retreats, professional trainings, online learning, and more. Discover what calls to you at eomega.org/true.