What if everything you believed about a healthy relationship—the harmony, the peace, the perfectly matched wheels—was the very thing getting in the way?

This week, Tami Simon speaks with nico and devon hase—married Buddhist teachers, longtime meditation practitioners, and co-authors of the new Sounds True book This Messy, Gorgeous Love: A Buddhist Guide to Lasting Partnership—about what it actually takes to build a partnership that transforms rather than just endures.

Join Tami, nico, and devon to explore:

• Why relationships are inherently rough—and why accepting that is the first act of real intimacy
• The three conflict styles (volcanoes, diplomats, and dodgers) and how to work skillfully with your own
• The tightrope principle: why lasting partnership means always finding your balance, never holding it
• The daily check-in practice nico and devon discovered during three years of solitary retreat—and why it’s deceptively powerful
• How death contemplation can dissolve petty resentments and bring fierce clarity to what actually matters
• The “third space” in relationship: listening to the partnership itself as its own living being
• Body shame, shifting desire, and sexuality as an awakening path—from devon’s own retreat discoveries
• Why bodhichitta—the awakened heart of service—might be the most honest metric for whether a relationship is worth tending

Whether you’re navigating a decades-long partnership or wondering if intimacy and spiritual depth can coexist at all, nico and devon offer both radical honesty and genuine hope.

Listen now →

This conversation offers genuine transmission—not just concepts about awakening, but the palpable presence of realized teachers exploring the growing edge of spiritual understanding together. Originally aired on Sounds True One.

This episode is sponsored by Omega Institute, a global gathering hub for lifelong learning and spiritual exploration. Located in upstate New York’s beautiful Hudson Valley, Omega offers weekend workshops, special events, rest and rejuvenation retreats, professional trainings, online learning, and more. Discover what calls to you at eomega.org/true.