Mark Nepo: Writing Is Listening with Your Heart and Taking Notes

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September 10, 2019

Mark Nepo: Writing Is Listening with Your Heart and Taking Notes

Mark Nepo September 10, 2019

Mark Nepo is a New York Times bestselling author, poet, and philosopher whose many books include The Book of Awakening, Things That Join the Sea and the Sky, and The One Life We’re Given. Most recently, he has partnered with Sounds True to publish Drinking from the River of Light: The Life of Expression. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon speaks with Mark about about our collective notions around creativity and the societal role of art. Mark details how his own ideas about creative expression have shifted over the decades, as well as why we should try to separate creation from commerce. Mark and Tami talk about the “messy, magnificent journey” of being human and why art must be a “witness to what is.” Finally, they discuss the necessity of holding nothing back during the creative process and why the pursuit of art is also the pursuit of timelessness.(71 minutes)

Mark Nepo is a poet and philosopher who has taught in the fields of poetry and spirituality for over 40 years. A New York Times #1 bestselling author, he has published 21 books and recorded 14 audio projects. Mark has been interviewed several times by Oprah Winfrey as part of her Super Soul Sunday TV show, and was interviewed by Robin Roberts on Good Morning America. As a cancer survivor, Mark devotes his writing and teaching to the journey of inner transformation and the life of relationship. His work has been translated into more than 20 languages. For more, see marknepo.com.

Author photo © Brian Bankston

Listen to Tami Simon's in-depth audio podcast interviews with Mark Nepo:
Holding Nothing Back »
Becoming the Poem »
Writing Is Listening with Your Heart and Taking Notes »

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Founded Sounds True in 1985 as a multimedia publishing house with a mission to disseminate spiritual wisdom. She hosts a popular weekly podcast called Insights at the Edge, where she has interviewed many of today's leading teachers. Tami lives with her wife, Julie M. Kramer, and their two spoodles, Rasberry and Bula, in Boulder, Colorado.

Photo © Jason Elias

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Mark Nepo: Age Like a Meteor

What if aging isn’t about decline, but about becoming brighter—like a meteor that grows more luminous even as it falls through the atmosphere?

Tami Simon speaks with beloved poet-philosopher Mark Nepo about his deeply moving new book, The Fifth Season: Creativity in the Second Half of Life. Drawing from Chinese wisdom traditions and his own journey through chronic pain and back surgery, Mark illuminates aging as the “heavenly pivot” (love that phrase) which is the transformative shift from living outwardly to inhabiting life from the inside out.

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Mark’s wisdom arises from decades of spiritual practice, surviving cancer, and facing the inevitable losses that come with a long life—essential listening for anyone navigating aging, chronic pain, loss, or simply seeking to live more fully present to the life they have.

Listen now to discover how the second half of life can be your most luminous yet.

This conversation offers genuine transmission—not just concepts about awakening, but the palpable presence of realized teachers exploring the growing edge of spiritual understanding together. Originally aired on Sounds True One.

Mark Nepo: The Half-Life of Angels

How do we know our own authenticity? How can we return to our hearts when we find we’ve left them? As we evolve and change along our journey, how do we relate to the “former selves” in our past? In this podcast, Tami Simon and poet-philosopher Mark Nepo address these questions and more, as they discuss his creative process; his new book, The Half-Life of Angels; and how we can each touch the ever-present and wholly miraculous “spark of becoming” waiting to guide our lives. 

Tune in as Tami and Mark talk about the introspective nature of the creative process; the metaphor of the soul as an inlet; congruency; how the heart shatters but inevitably heals; becoming a student to the mystery of life; the meaning of the word “admit,” and the practice of return; seeing through the lens of the miraculous; the intersection of meditation and creativity; the art of re-visioning; how a commitment to truthfulness grows in concentric circles; living from the deep versus diving and coming back up; the shift from being driven to being drawn; impermanence and perseverance; how the life of expression is one of discovery, relationship, and inquiry; why “there’s always a teacher next to you”; “becoming the poem”; and more.

Note: This episode originally aired on Sounds True One, where these special episodes of Insights at the Edge are available to watch live on video and with exclusive access to Q&As with our guests. Learn more at join.soundstrue.com.

Mark Nepo: Authentic Expression is Heart-Based

“All my work is about devotion to the messy, magnificent human journey”

—Mark Nepo

Every day, we learn. We take in more of the new. And yet, we can only respond to situations based on what we know already. We rely on the old.

Mark Nepo seems to be asking about the space between. What does it mean to grow and change with grace? What does it mean to have faith in that process? And what does this have to do with writing and expression?

We are constantly tasked to face the unknown using tools that may have only worked for us in the past (and that is freaking scary).

I believe that asking questions is elemental to human nature. But, it is impossible to truly know any of the answers.

For Mark, there is no one right way forward. There is no way out of fear. There is only a sensibility that can be adopted: that is, the willingness to listen. 

In other words, there are no objectives. There are no end products. The “answer” is in letting go of resistance to what we know, have, and are.

That way, the invisible can make itself known.

WITNESSING

“How do we talk about the things that matter that you really can’t see?”

—Mark Nepo

The ephemeral connection between ourselves and the world of essence exists within our hearts. With this practice—this practice of inner trust, perhaps even surrender—we can begin to gesture at expressing the unsayable.

What’s clear about Mark Nepo is that he is first and foremost a writer. However, his ideas can be applied to any form of expression.

To bear witness in writing, Mark advises giving full attention to whatever is in front of you, then describing it in as much detail as possible. It’s important not to make it seem magnificent or assign it “a bunch of meaning.”

Don’t evaluate it.

We are the observers and not yet the translators.

There is another part to it. Look inward. Feel what is moving through you at that moment. “Paint” that feeling with words. Don’t judge. Don’t bother with meaning. This disposition is inherently freeing. 

In this state (and I fall in and out of it even as I write this), reality moves up to our eyes like a mirror. We can look at it and hear it, be part of it.

THE INVISIBLE WORLD

“You can’t see light except for what it illuminates. All the forces that hold us and support us are invisible”

—Mark Nepo

We name things all the time. We have to. It keeps chaos at bay.

But, naming things tends to keep us separate from them. That is this and I am this and you are there and I am here.

In his Insights at the Edge episode with Tami, Mark mentions that we are accustomed to listening in this way.

We immediately assign names, places, spaces, reasons, meaning and significance to everything we see and feel. We judge and assume (partly because it is efficient; partly because we are so used to doing it).

This is in stark contrast to the “essence of wholehearted presence, however and whenever that appears.”

IMMERSION

“The truth is, I barely understand half of what comes through me. The other half leads me”

—Mark Nepo

Immersion is a different kind of listening.

Rather than naming, one engages in a mutual conversation with the world. Discovery and creation unite as the byproduct of participation in oneness.

For Mark, immersion is a way to stop resisting our naturalness and be… whatever it is we were meant to be, as humans.

When he talks about “the things that matter,” what he seems to mean is the invisible world, “that which holds us together.” In immersion, we have the chance to interact with the invisible source of our unity.

Like the fiery and untouchable sun from which our individual experiences emanate.

WHOLEHEARTEDNESS

“It’s a gift that we can’t reach what we’re trying to say or what we see, because of all that it gives us”

—Mark Nepo

In his interview, Mark says to Tami about art-making, “What matters more is our wholeheartedness than whether we do it well.”

Tami’s response struck me. “I notice, as you offer that answer, there’s a part of me that really softens.”

Creation can be a meeting place. Rather than prescribing, you meet something somewhere, and then you embrace whatever happens. You accept what is present—and in return, you are accepted just as you are.

Wholeheartedness: letting go of expectation for the sake of the unsayable.

SELF-EXPRESSION

“Just because I write it doesn’t mean that I have the meaning of it all”

—Mark Nepo

As a writing teacher, I often tell my students that if they’re stuck, they may not be empty of ideas. In fact, they may be too full.

Creating space for the heart allows the bubbles to rise up. Like attracts like. We see what we see.

“If you’re not quite there, go back to the heart of whatever the expression is about, and get closer, and get stiller, and put your defenses down, and get closer. … Go back and have a more open heart, and see what comes then.”

Sometimes, it’s unpleasant.

Sometimes, it’s utterly nonsensical.

Poetry, as one possible example of this art, has long emptied itself of pragmatic purpose and precise meaning for the sake of beauty and potentiality.

You may end up with something that you don’t understand for years. You may just take that thing out later and realize what you meant. Authentic expression is not a product. It’s a message from you to you, from the universe to the universe.

And it is always miraculous.

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Stephen Cope on How Yoga Changes Your Brain and Emotio...

Have you ever noticed how quickly your mind reacts to stress, emotion, or even a passing thought? Many of these responses feel automatic, as if they happen before we have a chance to choose. Yoga offers another way of meeting these moments. Through breath, movement, and attention, we begin to slow down and notice what is happening within us. With practice, this awareness creates space, allowing for more clarity, steadiness, and a deeper connection to our emotional life.

At Sounds True, we have spent decades sharing the living wisdom of transformational teachers in their own authentic voice. Our work is rooted in making these teachings accessible and meaningful for everyday life. Through conversations with teachers like Stephen Cope, we bring forward insights that bridge ancient practice with modern understanding of the mind.

Here, we look at how yoga brain science shapes emotional health through Stephen Cope’s teachings on awareness, neuroplasticity, and mental well-being.

Key Takeaways:

  • Neuroplasticity in Action: Yoga brain science shows that repeated awareness and breathwork can reshape neural pathways over time.
  • Emotional Awareness: Yoga’s psychological benefits include recognizing and responding to emotions with greater clarity and steadiness.
  • Mind-Body Connection: Practices rooted in yoga and mental health strengthen the relationship between physical sensations and emotional experience.

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Stephen Cope on Yoga Brain Science and Emotional Transformation

In conversation with Stephen Cope, yoga brain science is not a general idea, but something lived and felt in the body and mind. Cope draws from decades of practice to highlight a simple truth: the brain is shaped by where we place our attention. Through yoga, we begin to notice our patterns, how reactions form, and how awareness can gently shift them.

Many of us move through life on autopilot, reacting quickly to stress and emotion. Yoga invites a slower pace. It encourages us to pause, feel, and stay present. Over time, this creates space between impulse and action, allowing for new ways of responding.

This transformation is not about becoming someone else. It is about becoming more aware of our own experience. Yoga brain science helps us understand this process, but the real change happens through practice, moment by moment.

Yoga Neuroplasticity: How Practice Rewires the Brain

Yoga offers a direct experience of neuroplasticity, showing us that change is not only possible but natural. Through steady practice, the brain begins to reorganize in response to new patterns of attention and presence.

Repetition and Awareness in Yoga Neuroplasticity

In yoga, repetition is not about perfection. It is about returning. Each time we bring awareness back to the breath or body, we are strengthening pathways in the brain that support presence. These moments may seem small, yet they accumulate in meaningful ways. Over time, the familiar pull of distraction or reactivity begins to shift.

This is how yoga neuroplasticity unfolds. The brain learns from experience. When we repeatedly choose awareness, the brain adapts to that choice. Patterns of calm, clarity, and steadiness become more accessible. What once required effort begins to feel more natural.

From Conditioned Patterns to Conscious Choice

Many of our emotional habits are deeply conditioned. They arise quickly and often without conscious awareness. Yoga creates an opportunity to see these patterns more clearly. As awareness deepens, we begin to recognize the early signs of reaction. A tightening in the body, a shift in breath, a familiar thought pattern.

In that recognition, there is a pause. That pause is significant. It allows for choice. Instead of being carried forward by habit, we can respond with intention. Cope points to this as a turning point in practice. It reflects a movement toward greater freedom, supported by the brain’s inherent capacity to change.

Yoga Psychological Benefits for Emotional Awareness and Resilience

The psychological benefits of yoga are grounded in the development of awareness and the cultivation of a steady relationship with inner experience. Through practice, we begin to understand our emotions in a more direct and embodied way.

Developing Emotional Awareness Through Practice

Yoga invites us to listen closely to what is happening within. Emotions are not abstract ideas. They are felt experiences that move through the body. By paying attention to sensations, breath, and subtle shifts, we begin to recognize emotional states as they arise.

This awareness changes our relationship with emotion. Instead of being swept away, we learn to stay present. We can name what is happening without becoming overwhelmed by it. This creates a sense of clarity that supports emotional balance.

Building Resilience Through Presence

Resilience is often thought of as strength in the face of difficulty. In yoga, resilience is cultivated through presence. When discomfort arises in practice, we are invited to stay with it, to observe it without immediately trying to change it.

This builds capacity. Over time, we develop the ability to remain steady even when emotions are intense. This steadiness carries into daily life. Challenges are still present, yet our way of meeting them shifts. There is more space, more patience, and a deeper sense of grounding.

Stephen Cope on Yoga and Mental Health in Daily Life

For Stephen Cope, yoga and mental health are inseparable. Practice is not limited to a specific time or place. It is woven into the fabric of daily living.

Attention as a Tool for Mental Health

Attention shapes experience. When attention is scattered or pulled into repetitive thought patterns, the mind can feel unsettled. Yoga trains attention in a gentle and consistent way. By returning to the breath or body, we begin to anchor awareness in the present moment.

This shift has a meaningful impact on mental health. Patterns of rumination begin to soften. The mind becomes less caught in loops of worry or self-judgment. There is a growing sense of stability that comes from being present with what is here.

Integrating Practice Into Daily Living

Integration is at the heart of yoga. The insights gained in practice are meant to be lived. This can be as simple as pausing before responding in a conversation or noticing the breath during a moment of stress.

These small moments matter. They reinforce the same patterns of awareness cultivated during practice. Over time, yoga becomes less about doing and more about being. Mental health is supported not through isolated efforts, but through a continuous relationship with awareness.

Discover the Hidden Power of Daily Meditation

How Yoga Brain Science Supports Mental Health and Well-Being

Yoga brain science offers a grounded understanding of how practice supports well-being on multiple levels. It reflects the connection between body, mind, and attention, showing how each influences the other.

  • Yoga supports the regulation of the nervous system by encouraging slower, more conscious breathing
  • It brings awareness to habitual thought patterns, allowing for a different relationship with them
  • It creates space for emotional processing by inviting presence rather than avoidance
  • It strengthens the capacity for focused attention, which supports clarity and stability
  • It deepens the connection between body and mind, helping us recognize early signals of stress

These elements work together to support mental health in a way that feels both practical and accessible. As practice continues, many people notice a shift toward greater balance. There is a growing sense of ease in how emotions are experienced and expressed.

This is not about removing difficulty from life. It is about developing the capacity to meet life as it unfolds. Yoga brain science helps us understand how this capacity is built through consistent, mindful engagement with our inner world.

Exploring Yoga Neuroplasticity and Long-Term Habit Change

Habit change is often seen as effort-driven, but yoga offers another approach. Through yoga neuroplasticity, habits are shaped and reshaped by attention and repetition.

Each moment of awareness, whether noticing the breath or a reactive thought, supports new patterns. These small shifts build over time, creating lasting change.

As practice continues, old habits loosen, and the mind becomes more flexible, allowing for greater freedom in how we respond.

The Psychological Benefits of Yoga for Stress and Emotional Balance

Stress is part of life, but yoga can change how we relate to it. By grounding attention in the body and breath, we create an anchor that helps us stay steady during intense or uncertain moments.

Instead of reacting automatically, we learn to remain present. This builds a sense of balance where emotions can move without overwhelming us. Over time, this steadiness becomes more natural, rooted in a deeper connection to awareness.

Integrating Yoga and Mental Health Practices Through Stephen Cope’s Teachings

Through the teachings of Stephen Cope, yoga and mental health become a lived practice grounded in both tradition and modern insight. He encourages approaching experience with curiosity rather than judgment, creating space for meaningful change.

Through attention, breath, and presence, yoga offers tools to meet ourselves more fully and support greater clarity, connection, and emotional well-being.

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Final Thoughts

Yoga brain science reminds us that meaningful change begins with awareness. Through the teachings of Stephen Cope, we see how steady practice can reshape the way we meet our thoughts, emotions, and daily experiences. At Sounds True, we hold this work as a living process, one that invites patience, presence, and a deeper relationship with ourselves over time.

Frequently Asked Questions About Yoga, Brain Science, and Emotional Health

What is yoga brain science in simple terms?

Yoga brain science refers to how yoga practices like breathing, movement, and meditation influence brain function. It explains how consistent practice can shape attention, emotional patterns, and overall mental well-being.

How long does it take for yoga to affect the brain?

Changes can begin with a single session, especially in stress reduction. However, lasting shifts in brain patterns and emotional responses typically develop through consistent practice over weeks or months.

Can yoga replace therapy for mental health concerns?

Yoga can support mental health, but it is not a replacement for therapy. It works well alongside professional care by helping individuals build awareness, regulate emotions, and stay grounded.

Is yoga effective for anxiety and overthinking?

Yes, many people find yoga helpful for anxiety. Practices that focus on breath and body awareness can calm the nervous system and reduce cycles of overthinking.

Do you need physical flexibility to gain mental benefits from yoga?

No. The mental and emotional benefits of yoga come from awareness and attention, not physical ability. Anyone can experience these benefits regardless of flexibility.

What type of yoga is best for brain and emotional health?

Slower, mindful practices such as Hatha, restorative, or gentle flow yoga tend to support emotional regulation and awareness. The key factor is consistency and presence, not intensity.

How does breathing in yoga affect the brain?

Breathing practices influence the nervous system by signaling safety to the body. Slow, steady breathing can reduce stress responses and support clearer thinking.

Can yoga help with emotional burnout?

Yoga can help individuals reconnect with their body and internal state, which is often disconnected during burnout. This reconnection supports recovery and emotional balance over time.

Is meditation necessary to experience yoga’s brain benefits?

Meditation can deepen the effects, but it is not required. Many of the benefits come from mindful movement and breath awareness practiced during yoga itself.

How often should someone practice yoga for mental health support?

Even a few minutes daily can be helpful. Regular, consistent practice tends to be more beneficial than occasional longer sessions.

Michelle Cassandra Johnson is an author, activist, spiritual teacher, racial equity consultant, and intuitive healer. She is the author of six books, including Skill in Action and Finding Refuge. Amy Burtaine is a leadership coach and racial equity trainer. With Robin DiAngelo, she is the coauthor of The Facilitator's Guide for White Affinity Groups. For more, visit https://www.michellecjohnson.com/wisdom-of-the-hive.

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