[ENCORE EPISODE] Jon Kabat-Zinn: Befriending Pain

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November 6, 2025

[ENCORE EPISODE] Jon Kabat-Zinn: Befriending Pain

Jon Kabat-Zinn November 6, 2025

**SPECIAL ENCORE PRESENTATION**

Current statistics tell us that 20% of the US population has some form of chronic pain, defined as severe discomfort that has continued for six months or more. That’s more than 50 million people. Jon Kabat-Zinn has received international acclaim for his leading work in bringing the life-changing practices of meditation and mindfulness into the mainstream of medicine and society. In this inspiring podcast, Tami Simon speaks with Jon about his empowering new book, Mindfulness Meditation for Pain Relief, and how we can greatly improve our lives (and our entire world) by reframing the way we relate to our thoughts, our minds, and the sensations of our bodies.

Listen in as they discuss the epidemic of chronic pain and the power of mindfulness to ease suffering of all kinds, the myth of the “good meditator,” the body as the starting point for practice, exploring your “emotionally freighted thoughts,” our longing to be who we really are, working with the mind and learning to inhabit a space of embodied awareness, the refuge that is meditation practice, letting go of our stories, befriending the sensory field of what we call pain, the miracle of life on Earth, the Buddha’s teaching on mindfulness as the direct path to liberation, surfing the waves of your own experience, unity within diversity and the arising of compassion, focusing on what’s right instead of what’s wrong, how we are all on a growth curve on life’s journey, and more.

Note: This episode originally aired on Sounds True One, where these special episodes of Insights at the Edge are available to watch live on video and with exclusive access to Q&As with our guests. Learn more at join.soundstrue.com.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Listeners of Insights At The Edge get 10% off their first month at

www.betterhelp.com/soundstrue

Jon Kabat-Zinn, PhD, is professor of medicine emeritus at the University of Massachusetts Medical School and the founder and director of its renowned Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Clinic. His clinic was featured in 1993 in the public television series Healing and the Mind with Bill Moyers. Jon Kabat-Zinn is the author of 15 books, in print in over 45 languages. These include Full Catastrophe LivingWherever You Go, There You Are; Coming to Our Senses; and Mindfulness for Beginners.

Author photo © Jaume Cosialls

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[ENCORE EPISODE] Jon Kabat-Zinn: Befriending Pain

**SPECIAL ENCORE PRESENTATION**

Current statistics tell us that 20% of the US population has some form of chronic pain, defined as severe discomfort that has continued for six months or more. That’s more than 50 million people. Jon Kabat-Zinn has received international acclaim for his leading work in bringing the life-changing practices of meditation and mindfulness into the mainstream of medicine and society. In this inspiring podcast, Tami Simon speaks with Jon about his empowering new book, Mindfulness Meditation for Pain Relief, and how we can greatly improve our lives (and our entire world) by reframing the way we relate to our thoughts, our minds, and the sensations of our bodies.

Listen in as they discuss the epidemic of chronic pain and the power of mindfulness to ease suffering of all kinds, the myth of the “good meditator,” the body as the starting point for practice, exploring your “emotionally freighted thoughts,” our longing to be who we really are, working with the mind and learning to inhabit a space of embodied awareness, the refuge that is meditation practice, letting go of our stories, befriending the sensory field of what we call pain, the miracle of life on Earth, the Buddha’s teaching on mindfulness as the direct path to liberation, surfing the waves of your own experience, unity within diversity and the arising of compassion, focusing on what’s right instead of what’s wrong, how we are all on a growth curve on life’s journey, and more.

Note: This episode originally aired on Sounds True One, where these special episodes of Insights at the Edge are available to watch live on video and with exclusive access to Q&As with our guests. Learn more at join.soundstrue.com.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Listeners of Insights At The Edge get 10% off their first month at

www.betterhelp.com/soundstrue

Jon Kabat-Zinn: Befriending Pain

Current statistics tell us that 20% of the US population has some form of chronic pain, defined as severe discomfort that has continued for six months or more. That’s more than 50 million people. Jon Kabat-Zinn has received international acclaim for his leading work in bringing the life-changing practices of meditation and mindfulness into the mainstream of medicine and society. In this inspiring podcast, Tami Simon speaks with Jon about his empowering new book, Mindfulness Meditation for Pain Relief, and how we can greatly improve our lives (and our entire world) by reframing the way we relate to our thoughts, our minds, and the sensations of our bodies. 

Listen in as they discuss the epidemic of chronic pain and the power of mindfulness to ease suffering of all kinds, the myth of the “good meditator,” the body as the starting point for practice, exploring your “emotionally freighted thoughts,” our longing to be who we really are, working with the mind and learning to inhabit a space of embodied awareness, the refuge that is meditation practice, letting go of our stories, befriending the sensory field of what we call pain, the miracle of life on Earth, the Buddha’s teaching on mindfulness as the direct path to liberation, surfing the waves of your own experience, unity within diversity and the arising of compassion, focusing on what’s right instead of what’s wrong, how we are all on a growth curve on life’s journey, and more.

Note: This episode originally aired on Sounds True One, where these special episodes of Insights at the Edge are available to watch live on video and with exclusive access to Q&As with our guests. Learn more at join.soundstrue.com.

On The Mindfulness Revolution and Our Fear of Authenti...

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Deepen your personal healing practice with guided meditations, audio presentations, and learning intensives by Jon Kabat-Zinn on Sounds True »

Have you ever wondered who coined the term ‘mindfulness’? That was Dr. Jon Kabat-Zinn. He describes it as “paying attention on purpose with a non-judgmental attitude.”

“I take an enormous amount of pleasure in actually not trying to get anywhere” —Jon Kabat-Zinn

Partly because of his work and research, this concept of ‘mindfulness’ has become mainstream. We see it at colleges, small businesses and large corporations, and—perhaps most notably—in medicine (Kabat-Zinn also founded the Stress Reduction Clinic at the University of Massachusetts Medical School).

In Tami’s interview with Kabat-Zinn on Insights at the Edge, the two begin asking: Why is mindfulness gaining popularity in the first place? In the process, they explore what’s simple, profound, and relatable about it.

AGE OF MINDFULNESS

mindfulness revolution woman

“Once you realize that we are completely embedded in an interconnected world … the only real response is a sense of profound appreciation or affection for the fact that we are not separate” 

Mindfulness has always been a part of humanity. It has been called different names and interpreted by different lenses, but the concept of some greater unity of which we are all a part—that doesn’t seem to be going anywhere.

So, even if it’s a trend, couldn’t there be more to it? In a way, mindfulness seems to take on the breath of intuition, not necessarily logic or reason. It is truly the air of possibility.

YOU ARE NOT YOUR THOUGHTS

mindfulness revolution thoughts

You cannot get rid of your thoughts. But when you create distance between yourself and your thoughts, you can let them wash through you. You do not have to fight to maintain them or believe them. And, you do not have to fight to let them go.

“Suppose the sky is awareness. If a bird flew through, then the sky would know it. … [The sky] has its own sort of ground condition of just being the sky, just being awareness”

He describes this awareness not as a state of being, but as a shift in seeing. There was always space there. We just needed to rotate a lens.

Have you ever retreated your vision while meditating, so that you were gazing out from between your two closed eyes? Like that. That field of awareness stretches infinitely—as conscious beings, it weaves us together.

This feeling is both humbling and terrifying in its awesomeness. When the sky is so big, we don’t know what we are. But we can accept this uncertainty. Our minds, our egos, our bodies—can expand with it.

WE ARE ALL GENIUSES

mindfulness revolution connected

Homo sapien sapien literally translates from Latin to “the species that knows and knows that it knows.”

In the episode, Jon and Tami talk beautifully about mindfulness’s fundamental humanness. There is an utter connection between our feet grounded on this Earth, and the spaces we don’t understand.

“There is something about mindfulness that is absolutely core to our humanity … the final common pathway of what makes us human”

Sometimes, meditation helps us feel the truth of this. Once we know this awareness is there, we can integrate it into the ways we think and make decisions.

FEAR OF AUTHENTICITY

mindfulness revolution authenticityWe reach for purpose; we wish to understand our place in the universe. (It isn’t weird for us to do this. If I were an alien, and I heard humans were doing this, I would be like, well, yeah.)

Yet, we are afraid to be ourselves. We don’t want ourselves to disappear. So we keep inside our deepest sorrows, anxieties, and emotions.

The parts of us we try and protect so carefully end up banging on the walls inside of us, stuck.

“It’s not like we can never suppress that shadow side … but if we can come to understand it in a deeper way, then I think there is a potential … [to] elevate what is most beautiful and good about all human beings”

What if we gave all of it—ourselves, and our connection to the world—the space to breathe?

(And the possibilities begin to shimmer.)

 

ABOUT JON KABAT-ZINN

Jon Kabat-Zinn Author Photo

Jon Kabat-Zinn, PhD, is professor of medicine emeritus at the University of Massachusetts Medical School, where he founded the Center for Mindfulness in Medicine, Health Care, and Society in 1995, and its world-renowned Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) Clinic in 1979. His trailblazing research has helped bring mindfulness meditation into mainstream medicine. He is the author of 10 books, including the bestsellers Full Catastrophe Living; Wherever You Go, There You Are; and Mindfulness for Beginners.

Take a look at Jon Kabat-Zinn’s book and accompanying CD of guided practices, Mindfulness for Beginners, published by Sounds True!

★★★★★ Easy to read and informative as well as inspiring. —gus c
★★★★★ In my opinion, a must-read for all humans. —Yves N

ABOUT THE AUTHORDani Ferrara Blogger Author Photo

When she isn’t writing, playing music or teaching, Dani Ferrara blogs at Sounds True and researches the alchemy of healing. Explore her art at daniferrarapoet.com.

 

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What Is Brainspotting?

Brainspotting is designed to help people access and process unresolved trauma through focused attention on specific eye positions. The method rests on the idea that where a person looks can correspond to where difficult experiences are stored in the brain and body. Staying with a brainspot while remaining aware of physical sensations and emotions, people can work through material that language alone might not reach.

Since David Grand developed this approach, brainspotting therapy has been applied broadly, with athletes, artists, business leaders, and survivors of large-scale events, among others. Grand also offers an online course through Sounds True that walks through the core principles behind brainspotting therapy, available to those who want to learn directly from the source.

His insights align with the conversations we host on the Insights at the Edge Podcast, where therapists, teachers, and practitioners share what healing really looks like from the inside out.

David Grand and the Development of Brainspotting Therapy

Brainspotting therapy came out of a significant clinical observation. During trauma treatment, David Grand noticed that a client’s eye position seemed to shift when deeper emotional material surfaced. That moment became the foundation for a method built around the brain’s own capacity to process and release what it has long held in place.

Since its introduction, brainspotting therapy has been used by clinicians around the world to help people facing trauma, anxiety, grief, chronic stress, and performance-related challenges. Grand’s work continues to shape the field by drawing attention to the connection between the brain, the body, and emotional healing.

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Trauma Therapy Eye Position and the Brain-Body Connection

Trauma therapy eye position describes the relationship between where someone directs their gaze and what emotional or physical experiences become accessible as a result. During a session, a therapist guides the client to a specific visual point and invites them to notice what arises in the body as they hold that focus. Sensations, emotions, and memories can surface as the nervous system begins to process material it has held in place for years.

The body carries what the mind sometimes can’t articulate. A shift in eye position can open access to experiences held below conscious awareness, gently creating conditions for the nervous system to complete what was once interrupted. Healing, in this way, becomes a process the whole person takes part in, not just the thinking mind.

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How the Brainspotting Technique Uses Eye Position to Access Trauma

The brainspotting technique begins with identifying an eye position linked to an emotional or physical response. From there, the therapist invites the client to rest their attention on that visual point while remaining aware of what arises in the body. The process creates space for the nervous system to do what it naturally knows how to do, without demanding that memories surface on command.

A concrete example might be this: someone working through anxiety tied to an experience might start by calling that experience to mind. As the therapist slowly moves a pointer across their field of vision, the client notices a position where a physical sensation intensifies, perhaps tightness in the chest or a change in breath. That’s the brainspot. The session then focuses there while the client tracks what unfolds internally, allowing the nervous system to process what it has previously stored.

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EMDR vs Brainspotting: Understanding the Key Differences

EMDR follows a standardized eight-phase protocol and uses bilateral stimulation, typically through guided eye movements, sounds, or tapping, to help the brain reprocess traumatic memories. Brainspotting focuses on identifying one significant eye position and following the client’s internal experience from there. Sessions tend to be more open-ended, allowing the individual’s nervous system to lead.

Neither method is universally better than the other. A qualified therapist can help determine which fits a person’s history, goals, and comfort level. Many clinicians receive training in both and draw on each as the situation calls for it.

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Final Thoughts

Brainspotting offers a distinctive perspective on trauma healing, one that trusts the body’s capacity to know where attention is needed. Working with eye position rather than narration alone, this approach creates conditions for healing to happen at the body’s own pace.

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Frequently Asked Questions About Brainspotting

Is brainspotting backed by research?

Brainspotting is supported by a growing body of clinical research and case studies. While research continues to evolve, many mental health professionals use it as part of trauma-informed care for emotional and psychological concerns.

Who can benefit from brainspotting?

Brainspotting may benefit adults and adolescents experiencing trauma, anxiety, grief, stress, or performance-related challenges. A qualified mental health professional can determine whether it is an appropriate approach for an individual’s needs.

Do I have to talk about my trauma during brainspotting?

Not necessarily. While some people choose to discuss their experiences, brainspotting can also focus on physical sensations and emotions, allowing processing without requiring detailed verbal storytelling.

Can brainspotting be combined with other therapies?

Yes. Many therapists integrate brainspotting with other evidence-based approaches, such as cognitive behavioral therapy, mindfulness practices, or somatic therapies, to create a personalized treatment plan.

Is brainspotting only used for trauma?

No. Although it is widely recognized for trauma treatment, brainspotting is also used to support people dealing with anxiety, creative blocks, chronic stress, and performance enhancement in sports, music, and public speaking.

What should I expect after a brainspotting session?

Some people feel calm or relieved after a session, while others may continue processing emotions or physical sensations for a short time. Therapists often recommend rest, hydration, and self-reflection between sessions.

Is brainspotting suitable for everyone?

Brainspotting may not be the best fit for every individual or situation. A licensed therapist can evaluate your mental health history and recommend the most appropriate treatment approach.

Michelle Cassandra Johnson is an author, activist, spiritual teacher, racial equity consultant, and intuitive healer. She is the author of six books, including Skill in Action and Finding Refuge. Amy Burtaine is a leadership coach and racial equity trainer. With Robin DiAngelo, she is the coauthor of The Facilitator's Guide for White Affinity Groups. For more, visit https://www.michellecjohnson.com/wisdom-of-the-hive.