James Hollis: A Summons to a Deeper Life

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February 27, 2018

James Hollis: A Summons to a Deeper Life

James Hollis February 27, 2018

James Hollis is a licensed Jungian analyst and the author of many books on personal development and the search for meaning. His works include What Matters Most, Why Good People Do Bad Things, and Through the Dark Wood. With Sounds True, he has published Living an Examined Life: Wisdom for the Second Half of the Journey. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon speaks with James about what it means to “grow up” in a contemporary society that infantilizes its citizens. They talk about how to recognize the summons of our deep psyche and the steps we must take in order to answer it. James explains that the greatest obstacles to attaining spiritual maturity are fear and lethargy, and describes the inevitable periods of darkness that we will encounter along the way. Finally, James and Tami discuss why it’s important to our development that we choose meaning over happiness. (67 minutes)

James Hollis, PhD, is a licensed Jungian analyst in private practice in Washington, DC. Originally from Springfield, Illinois, he graduated from Manchester University in 1962 and Drew University in 1967. He taught humanities for 26 years in various colleges and universities before retraining as a Jungian analyst at the Jung Institute of Zürich, Switzerland (1977–82). He served as executive director of the Jung Educational Center in Houston, Texas, for many years. He was executive director of the Jung Society of Washington until 2019, and now serves on its board of directors. He is a retired senior training analyst for the Inter-Regional Society of Jungian Analysts, was first director of training of the Philadelphia Jung Institute, and is vice-president emeritus of the Philemon Foundation. Additionally, he was a professor of Jungian Studies for Saybrook University of San Francisco.

He has written 20 books, available in translations around the world, including Living Between WorldsWhat Matters Most, and Living an Examined Life. He lives with his wife, Jill, an artist and retired therapist, near Washington, DC. Together they have three living children and eight grandchildren. For more, visit jameshollis.net.

Author photo © Oxana Holtmann 

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Dr. James Hollis is a Jungian analyst, a former director of the Jung Society of Washington, DC, and a professor of Jungian Studies for Saybrook University of San Francisco/Houston. He is the author of The Middle PassageLiving an Examined Life, Through the Dark Wood, and Living Between Worlds, among many others. With Sounds True, he’s released the expansive audio program A Life of Meaning: Exploring Our Deepest Questions and Motivations.

In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon speaks with James about the journey for personal fulfillment—how it starts, what it demands, and how it changes your life. James explains what it really means to take responsibility for your life’s path, as well as how you can rediscover and reclaim your innate authority. Tami and James discuss how childhood experiences shape our present behavior and what it takes to live fearlessly. Finally, they talk about overcoming lethargy and the joy of becoming comfortable with mysteries.

This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Listeners of Insights At The Edge get 10% off their first month at www.betterhelp.com/soundstrue.

James Hollis: “Find What You Love and Let It Kill Yo...

By what lights do you live your journey? What fires your imagination? What stirs your curiosity? What asks of you something that is so deep within you that perhaps it hurts, but you can’t let go of it because it won’t let go of you? These are some of the “large questions” explored by Tami Simon and her guest, Jungian teacher and author James Hollis. Hollis is one of those authors who’s beloved by everyone who works at Sounds True—especially those of us who’ve entered the second half of life—and in this podcast, you’ll discover why. 

Listen now as Tami and Jim discuss his new book, Living with Borrowed Dust, sharing thought-provoking insights about: the evanescence of our human journey; making your life luminous; asking large questions, and how we lose contact with the inquiries that serve our individuation; fate versus destiny; the independence of the psyche; the ego’s need for control; dreams as “health correctives” and an avenue to the numinous; showing up for your “appointment” in life; trusting the wisdom of nature; how psychoanalysis helps us rewrite the self-limiting narratives that hold us back; the worst damage of trauma: identifying who we are with what happened to us; why we can’t solve certain problems, but we can outgrow them; courage and perseverance; paying close attention to your inner life; living in a culture of distraction; dialoguing with your soul; the paradox of passion; facing the abyss; taking advantage of the precious moments; learning to live with ambiguity; and more.

Note: This episode originally aired on Sounds True One, where these special episodes of Insights at the Edge are available to watch live on video and with exclusive access to Q&As with our guests. Learn more at join.soundstrue.com.

What Is Wanting to Find Expression Through You?

Dr. James Hollis is a Jungian analyst, a former director of the Jung Society of Washington, DC, and a professor of Jungian Studies for Saybrook University of San Francisco/Houston. He is the author of The Middle Passage, Living an Examined Life, Through the Dark Wood, and Living Between Worlds, among many others. With Sounds True, he’s released the expansive audio program A Life of Meaning: Exploring Our Deepest Questions and Motivations. In this episode of Insights at the Edge, Tami Simon speaks with James about the journey for personal fulfillment—how it starts, what it demands, and how it changes your life. James explains what it really means to take responsibility for your life’s path, as well as how you can rediscover and reclaim your innate authority. Tami and James discuss how childhood experiences shape our present behavior and what it takes to live fearlessly. Finally, they talk about overcoming lethargy and the joy of becoming comfortable with mysteries.

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Richard Schwartz on IFS: Why There Are No Bad Parts In...

Many people experience moments of inner conflict. One part may want to take action, while another feels cautious or protective. Internal Family Systems offers a way to understand these experiences by recognizing that the mind is made up of different parts, each shaped by life experiences and emotional needs.

At Sounds True, we are dedicated to sharing transformational teachings from leading spiritual teachers in their authentic voices. Through our books, audio programs, and podcasts, we help bring wisdom from teachers such as Richard Schwartz to people seeking deeper self-understanding and personal growth.

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Key Takeaways:

  • The Core Idea of IFS: Internal Family Systems explains the mind as a system of inner parts that influence thoughts, emotions, and behaviors.
  • The Meaning of No Bad Parts: Richard Schwartz teaches that every part develops for a reason and often serves a protective role within a person’s inner system.
  • The Purpose of Parts Work Therapy: IFS therapy helps people build awareness and compassion toward their inner parts, supporting emotional healing and self-understanding.

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What Is Internal Family Systems and How Does It Work

Internal Family Systems is a therapeutic model developed by Richard Schwartz that views the mind as made up of different inner parts, each with its own perspective, emotions, and intentions. Instead of seeing these parts as problems, IFS therapy understands them as meaningful aspects of our inner world that developed to help us navigate life. Many people recognize this experience in moments of inner conflict, when one part of them wants to move forward while another part feels afraid or hesitant. In parts work therapy, these inner dynamics are approached with curiosity and compassion. By learning to listen to and understand these parts, people can begin to relate to themselves with greater awareness and balance.

Richard Schwartz and the Origins of Internal Family Systems

Internal Family Systems grew out of the work of family therapist Richard Schwartz. While listening to clients describe their inner struggles, he noticed that many spoke about different parts of themselves with distinct voices and roles.

How Richard Schwartz Developed IFS Therapy

During his clinical work in the 1980s, Schwartz began inviting clients to speak directly with these inner parts. He observed that the parts often had clear intentions and were trying to help in some way. This insight became the foundation of IFS therapy.

The Insight Behind “No Bad Parts”

Over time, Schwartz realized that even the most difficult reactions were protective in nature. This understanding led to the core idea in Internal Family Systems that there are no bad parts, only parts that need understanding and care.

The Core Idea Behind IFS Therapy and Inner Parts

Internal Family Systems teaches that the mind contains different parts, each shaped by life experiences. IFS therapy views these parts as meaningful aspects of the inner system that try to help a person cope, protect themselves, or manage emotional pain.

How Inner Parts Form in IFS Therapy

In parts work therapy, inner parts often develop during difficult or overwhelming experiences. These parts adopt roles that help a person handle stress, avoid pain, or maintain stability.

The Role of the Self in Internal Family Systems

IFS also describes a core presence called the Self. When people connect with the Self, they can approach their parts with calmness and compassion, allowing the inner system to move toward greater balance.

Why Richard Schwartz Says There Are No Bad Parts

Richard Schwartz teaches that many reactions we judge harshly are actually parts trying to protect us. In Internal Family Systems, these behaviors are understood as strategies that formed in response to difficult experiences. The idea of “no bad parts” invites people to look at their inner world with curiosity rather than criticism.

Why Protective Parts Form

Protective parts develop to help manage emotional pain or prevent past wounds from being triggered again. They step in to keep the person safe, even if their methods later create tension.

Seeing Difficult Reactions Through the Lens of IFS Therapy

IFS therapy encourages people to understand the intention behind their reactions. When parts are approached with compassion, it becomes easier to build trust within the inner system and support healing.

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Understanding the Roles of Parts in Parts Work Therapy

In Internal Family Systems, parts are often grouped into different roles based on how they try to protect a person’s emotional system. Richard Schwartz observed that these roles help explain why certain thoughts, reactions, and behaviors appear in stressful situations. In parts work therapy, recognizing these roles helps people understand how their inner system has been working to keep them safe.

Common Roles in Internal Family Systems

  • Managers Managers try to keep life organized and under control. These parts often focus on planning, perfectionism, or staying responsible so that painful emotions do not surface.
  • Firefighters Firefighters react quickly when emotional pain breaks through. They try to stop overwhelming feelings by distracting, numbing, or pushing their minds away from distress.
  • Exiles Exiles carry deeper emotional wounds, often connected to past hurt, rejection, or shame. Because these feelings can be intense, other parts work hard to keep them hidden or protected.

In IFS therapy, these roles are not viewed as problems. Each part was developed to help the system survive difficult experiences. As people begin to understand these roles with curiosity and compassion, they can start building a healthier relationship with every part of their inner world.

Understanding the Roles of Parts in Parts Work Therapy

In Internal Family Systems, parts take on different roles to protect a person from emotional pain. Richard Schwartz identified three common roles in IFS therapy: managers, firefighters, and exiles.

Managers try to keep life organized and controlled, often pushing people to perform well or avoid situations that may trigger painful emotions. Firefighters respond when distress surfaces and attempt to quickly reduce emotional intensity through distraction or other coping behaviors. Exiles carry deeper emotional wounds, such as shame, fear, or sadness that formed during difficult experiences.

In parts work therapy, healing begins when people approach these parts with curiosity and compassion, allowing the inner system to gradually move toward balance.

How IFS Therapy Helps You Build a Relationship With Your Parts

IFS therapy teaches people to relate to their inner parts with curiosity rather than judgment. Instead of trying to control or silence difficult reactions, Internal Family Systems encourages listening to what each part is trying to communicate.

Through this process, people begin to recognize the concerns and intentions behind their parts. As trust develops within the inner system, protective parts can relax and allow deeper healing to take place. This relationship between the Self and the parts is a central element of growth in parts work therapy.

Healing Through Internal Family Systems and the “No Bad Parts” Principle

A key teaching in Internal Family Systems is the understanding that every part has a positive intention. Richard Schwartz describes this idea as the principle of “no bad parts.” In IFS therapy, even reactions that seem unhelpful are viewed as protective strategies that developed in response to pain or stress.

By approaching these parts with compassion instead of criticism, people can begin to understand their purpose. As trust grows within the inner system, these parts often relax their roles, creating space for healing and greater inner balance.

Why Parts Work Therapy Is Transforming Modern Psychology

Parts work therapy has gained widespread attention because it offers a compassionate way to understand inner conflict. Instead of viewing difficult emotions as problems to eliminate, Internal Family Systems helps people recognize the protective roles behind their reactions. Through the teachings of Richard Schwartz and the principle of “no bad parts,” many individuals are finding a more respectful and healing relationship with their inner world. This approach continues to influence therapists, researchers, and people seeking deeper self-understanding.

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Final Thoughts

Internal Family Systems offers a compassionate way to understand our inner world. Through the work of Richard Schwartz and the practice of IFS therapy, many people are learning that the thoughts and reactions they struggle with are parts that formed to protect them. The principle of “no bad parts” invites a shift from self-judgment to curiosity and care. As people begin to listen to their inner system with respect, parts work therapy can open the door to deeper healing and a more balanced relationship with themselves.

Frequently Asked Questions About Internal Family Systems

What is the main goal of Internal Family Systems therapy?

The main goal of Internal Family Systems is to help individuals develop a healthier relationship with their inner parts. IFS therapy encourages people to approach their thoughts and emotions with curiosity so they can better understand the intentions behind them and create more balance within their internal system.

Who created Internal Family Systems?

Internal Family Systems was developed by Richard Schwartz, a family therapist who began noticing that clients often described their inner experiences as different parts interacting with one another. His observations led to the development of IFS therapy as a structured approach to understanding and healing these inner dynamics.

How is IFS therapy different from traditional talk therapy?

IFS therapy focuses on direct communication with inner parts rather than only discussing experiences at a surface level. This approach helps people understand the roles their parts play and encourages internal dialogue that can lead to deeper emotional insight and healing.

What does the phrase “no bad parts” mean in Internal Family Systems?

The phrase “no bad parts” reflects the belief that every part of the mind developed for a reason. Even parts that lead to difficult behaviors are often trying to protect a person from emotional pain or past experiences.

Can Internal Family Systems be practiced outside of therapy?

Many people apply principles of Internal Family Systems in their daily lives by paying attention to their thoughts and emotional reactions. While professional guidance can be helpful, practicing awareness and curiosity about inner parts can support personal reflection and growth.

Is Internal Family Systems useful for personal development?

Yes. Beyond clinical therapy, Internal Family Systems is widely used for personal growth. The model helps people understand their emotional patterns, strengthen self-awareness, and develop a more compassionate relationship with themselves.

Why do people experience internal conflict, according to IFS?

In IFS, internal conflict happens when different parts of the mind have competing goals or fears. One part may want safety and stability, while another may seek change or expression. Understanding these differences can help people respond to conflict with greater clarity.

Is Internal Family Systems supported by modern psychology?

Internal Family Systems has gained increasing recognition among therapists and mental health professionals. Many practitioners integrate parts work therapy into their practice because it provides a structured way to understand complex emotional patterns.

What role does self-awareness play in IFS therapy?

Self-awareness allows people to notice when different parts are active. By observing these inner reactions without immediate judgment, individuals can begin to understand the needs and motivations of their parts more clearly.

Who can benefit from Internal Family Systems therapy?

IFS therapy can benefit a wide range of people, including those interested in emotional healing, mindfulness, and personal insight. It is often helpful for individuals who want to better understand their inner experiences and build a more compassionate relationship with themselves.

Michelle Cassandra Johnson is an author, activist, spiritual teacher, racial equity consultant, and intuitive healer. She is the author of six books, including Skill in Action and Finding Refuge. Amy Burtaine is a leadership coach and racial equity trainer. With Robin DiAngelo, she is the coauthor of The Facilitator's Guide for White Affinity Groups. For more, visit https://www.michellecjohnson.com/wisdom-of-the-hive.